Michael - The Great Album Debate

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

MICHAEL
Hollywood Tonight - completely unheard of prior to release
Best of Joy - completely unheard of prior to release
(I Can't Make It) Another Day - snippets leaked prior to release
Behind the Mask - existence known, but never before heard
Much Too Soon - early demo recording leaked weeks prior to release
^ 5 new songs

Hold My Hand - leaked in full two years prior; doesn't qualify as a new song
(I Like) The Way You Love Me - officially released six years prior; doesn't qualify as a new song

BAD 25
Don't Be Messin' Around - existence known, but never before heard
I'm So Blue - completely unheard of prior to release
Song Groove/Abortion Papers - completely unheard of prior to release
Free - existence known, but never before heard
Price of Fame - existence known, but never before heard
Al Capone - existence known, but never before heard
^ 6 new songs

We're getting more from Bad 25.

The essential of I can't make it another day was leaked, so on the album it didn't sound completely as a new song.
Behind the mask's melody was already known. We had the version sung by Greg Phillinganes. So although it was a refresher to hear MJ sing it, we already knew the melody.

I think people bought "Michael" because it was hyped by his death. Without controversy it would have sold more, which means that the Estate screwed it big time. They completely failed the project.

I hope they find some jewels in HQ, like Victory Tour, and release it. They could build hype by creating animated things. Imagine MJ super hero in cartoons or digital animation a la "Pepsi chase"

 

[OnirMJ]

MICHAEL
Hollywood Tonight - completely unheard of prior to release
Best of Joy - completely unheard of prior to release
(I Can't Make It) Another Day - snippets leaked prior to release
Behind the Mask - existence known, but never before heard
Much Too Soon - early demo recording leaked weeks prior to release
^ 5 new songs

Hold My Hand - leaked in full two years prior; doesn't qualify as a new song
(I Like) The Way You Love Me - officially released six years prior; doesn't qualify as a new song

BAD 25
Don't Be Messin' Around - existence known, but never before heard
I'm So Blue - completely unheard of prior to release
Song Groove/Abortion Papers - completely unheard of prior to release
Free - existence known, but never before heard
Price of Fame - existence known, but never before heard
Al Capone - existence known, but never before heard
^ 6 new songs

We're getting more from Bad 25.

You shouldn't have listened the leaks. Hold My Hand and Another Day are new songs and they deserved to be released. I hope they'll release Escape, A Place With No Name, Blue Gangsta and DYKWYCA on the next album.

 

[qbee]

Of course leaked songs should be release. Just becuase some fans have heard leaked songs doesnt meant the majority of MJ fans or the world has heard them . Being leaked shouldnt even play a factor of what is released. I want the songs we love released so the world can recognise and enjoy and praise his work. Michael's music shouldnt be hidden in some vault or dungeon. Even raw Demos have value too . Just as a early sketch of a van Gogh painting has value. Michael's music is Valuable. Its art and needs to be released for posperity and his legacy IMO

 

[ivy]

there's no determining anything in sales fairly, with what you say. As Bumper indicated, we only know of sales by available information. and by that, we cant really determine anything, as there may be a lot of unavailable markets..people buying or not buying, that we don't know about.

Also, Ivy, it's not necessarily true that different climates determine lesser or more sales...eg 1982 vs. now. If something has the right ingredients, it'll sell like hot cakes in any year, any environment. I know people made a definite determination that nothing could sell like Thriller, before Thriller came along. there are things i won't mention that do that, now..and other things, again, i say, that we cannot determine full sales figures on.

sorry to be blunt but you are dreaming. It's no secret that the music sales have been declining for years and nothing sells as it's used to. Even though a super something is released people are a lot more likely to download it illegally then buying it. Also the world wide sales number is available. Record companies DO know how much copies they printed and sent out. Bad 25 sold 123,000 copies last week, Michael as Sony itself last said several months ago sold 2.5 Million total

But you are all missing the point why the sales number is mentioned on this thread. You might remember one of the main complaints on this thread hasn't only been the "fraudulent" vocals but also the production liberties taken. One side had stated such liberties were normal in posthumous releases , the other side stated it didn't make it acceptable. "Leave the songs as it is" has been a request coming from these discussions. And we have seen Estate go along with this request in Bad25.

This is where the sales numbers of Michael, Immortal and Bad25 comes into play. Not to compare it the sales in the 80s or compare it to the other artists or not to compare the content to other albums. Just plain look into what is selling and what is not selling in posthumous releases in today's world. As I said before their relevance is how the future strategy would be like.

If I was a profit seeking record company executive, I would have changed my focus from the fans (like they did in Bad 25) to the general public (like they did in Michael). I would have finished the songs and made them current with new mixes etc (like they did in Michael) and not leave them incomplete and the way they were decades ago. I would have kept the price low / cheap (less than $10) rather than having boxsets which is expensive.

Of course there's hope that a middle ground can be found such as such releases are accompanied by deluxe editions that also has the songs untouched.

That's what this has been about.

 

[OnirMJ]

If I was a profit seeking record company executive, I would have changed my focus from the fans (like they did in Bad 25) to the general public (like they did in Michael). I would have finished the songs and made them current with new mixes etc (like they did in Michael) and not leave them incomplete and the way they were decades ago. I would have kept the price low / cheap (less than $10) rather than having boxsets which is expensive.

Of course there's hope that a middle ground can be found such as such releases are accompanied by deluxe editions that also has the songs untouched.

That's what this has been about.

Bad 25 boxset is $30 and MICHAEL was $10 so if Bad25 sell 1/3 of MICHAEL it will be the same for the record company. The problem with MICHAEL is that that album had huge potential and could have sell 10 MIL, but the controversy and the Cascio songs caused that only 3 MIL albums had sold. If MICHAEL album was released as standard edition and deluxe collectors edition with all the demos the album would have been a massive hit. Of course without Cascio songs and Teddy Riley changing the meaning of song. That should be the way for future releases.

 

[ivy]

The problem with MICHAEL is that that album had huge potential and could have sell 10 MIL, but the controversy and the Cascio songs caused that only 3 MIL albums had sold.

This part I disagree. Only two people sold over 10 million mark- Lady Gaga and Adele. I'm thinking 10 Million mark is unrealistic with Michael not being around and not promoting the album with the concerts and such. The second ranking albums sold around 5-6 Million max. I think that's a more realistic number in regards to what could be an upper limit for sales.

 

[WildStyle]

'Michael' was the MJ album that "the world" was all waiting for since June 25, 2009. That was the best chance for big sales for a posthumous album. Highly unlikely that anything from this point on will generate as much interest as that album did unless something special happens. I suspect MJ releases will always do well (IMO Bad25 is doing well), but not at the level MJ fans are used to. Which to me is ok. As long as it's quality. The estate listened to fans and put out, by far, their highest quality release - Bad 25.

 

[AlwaysThere]

You shouldn't have listened the leaks. Hold My Hand and Another Day are new songs and they deserved to be released. I hope they'll release Escape, A Place With No Name, Blue Gangsta and DYKWYCA on the next album.

Of course leaked songs should be release. Just becuase some fans have heard leaked songs doesnt meant the majority of MJ fans or the world has heard them . Being leaked shouldnt even play a factor of what is released. I want the songs we love released so the world can recognise and enjoy and praise his work. Michael's music shouldnt be hidden in some vault or dungeon. Even raw Demos have value too . Just as a early sketch of a van Gogh painting has value. Michael's music is Valuable. Its art and needs to be released for posperity and his legacy IMO

Definitely not. If they do, I will be extremely pissed off. Remember how mad some people were that Streetwalker/Fly Away/the multi-language versions of I Just Can't Stop Loving You were included on disc two, in the spots where more unreleased songs could have been? It will be the exact same situation. The only song that deserves to be released of your list is A Place with No Name, because we've had a 25-second snippet of that for three years. Why would people pay money for four songs that they've already heard in full and can easily get off any download site?

Now, if they were to include the untouched demo of Slave to the Rhythm, I would understand. But so far as Blue Gangsta, Escape and Do You Know, they should be left alone, as they've leaked in their original forms (minus DYKWYCA, which was a reworked version from 2010, but should still be left alone). Like, how would you feel about this set-up:

1.
2. Slave to the Rhythm
3.
4.
5. Blue Gangsta
6.
7.
8. A Place with No Name
9.
10.
11. Do You Know Where Your Children Are
12. Escape

We'd get seven new songs. While it IS great to get new songs, we would be getting five songs we already heard. Which would be a HUGE waste of space, as they could have included five MORE songs. The next album isn't coming out until mid to late 2013; they have over a year to get it right in the same manner they did with Bad 25.

 

[WildStyle]

I have no problem with them releasing leaked songs. I have big problems with them following the same formula as 'Michael'. A hodge podge collection of songs bastardized and parading as a "studio album". With that said, who knows what the next release will look like. It might look more like 'The Ultimate Collection' minus the greatest hits and scaled down slightly. We really don't know.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

The point is completely missed.

MJ's last studio album was INVINCIBLE in 2001.

In 2010, 9 years later, finally a new studio album was released. It is completely normal that "Michael" was expected to be sold more than flopped 3 million copies, especially because it was a new album.

Ivy's argument that general sales in music industry have tremendously dropped in the last decade is true. However, when it comes to "Michael" album sales, her argument doesn't hold water, because apparently around same year "This Is It" soundtrack sold more than "Michael". Hence, re-worked songs (on "Michael") don't sell better than the re-release of already existing songs (on "This Is It"). Hence, I don't think that re-working the demos would bring much difference, if any. They need to advertize it and find ways to promote it better than what they have been doing so far.

Now, as far as "Bad 25" is concerned, it is completely unfair to compare it to any other album without including the fact that it is "nothing else" but a special deluxe edition of "Bad". We cannot dissociate "Bad 25" from "Bad 2001" and from "BAD" the original print, because I guess that all the three editions are being still sold nowdays and are still commercially available. Add to that that on many "best ofs" that have been released in the past decade, you can practically find all the songs from BAD on those compilations which are also being sold and still commercially available.

In a nutshell, when you compare what is comparable, "Michael" was a flop despite re-worked demos.

 

[ivy]

^^

You need to compare the overall sales and the effect of Michael's death as well. Yes combined over the years This is it sold around 4 million copies but it was so soon after Michael's death, 3 million sales were in 2009 and This is it the movie had been a quite popular thing as well. In 2009 Thriller also sold 4 million copies - and ranked the 5th album of 2009. Number Ones sold close to 4 million and ranked 6th album of the year. Thriller and Number Ones performed better than This is it. Bad, Dangerous and Off The Wall sold 2 million. Michael sold around 20 million albums in 2009 combined.

So I don't think This is it comparison is correct because you are talking about a time right after Michael's death when everything was selling like hot cakes. Michael album came 1 + years later.

Also the only new song on This is it , "this is it" was re-worked. It wasn't an "as is" demo. The success can also be because of the again increased interest and high radio play.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

^^

You need to compare the overall sales and the effect of Michael's death as well. Yes combined This is it sold around 4 million copies but it was so soon after Michael's death, 3 million sales were in 2009 and This is it the movie had been a quite popular thing as well. In 2009 Thriller also sold 4 million copies - and ranked the 5th album of 2009. Number Ones sold close to 4 million and ranked 6th album of the year. Thriller and Number Ones performed better than This is it. Bad, Dangerous and Off The Wall sold 2 million. Michael sold around 20 million albums in 2009 combined.

So I don't think This is it comparison is correct because you are talking about a time right after Michael's death when everything was selling like hot cakes.

As I said, "Michael" had a strong potential due to the fact that fans had been awaiting a new studio album since 2001. In that terms it is comparable. And frankly speaking, sadly MJ's death was also a publicity for the first posthumous album.

Also, what is not comparable is to isolate BAD 25 from the others edition of BAD being sold at the same time. So I don't see how BAD 25 is comparable to "Michael" and not "This is it" to "Michael".

Of course, the film This Is It contributed to the promotion, hence they have to find the ways to better promote, rather than to necessarily re-work the demos.

 

[ivy]

So I don't see how BAD 25 is comparable to "Michael" and not "This is it" to "Michael".

You said

"when it comes to "Michael" album sales, her argument doesn't hold water, because apparently around same year "This Is It" soundtrack sold more than "Michael". Hence, re-worked songs (on "Michael") don't sell better than the re-release of already existing songs (on "This Is It")."

So your argument was that This is it was a better album - sales wise - when compared to Michael.

And I'm saying it can be an outlier due to the effect of Michael's death. Both Thriller and Number Ones performed better than This is it - again sales wise.

so I'm saying your "hence re-worked songs don't sell more than already existing songs" could be flawed simply due to the fact that in 2009 whatever was readily available were selling in millions just because Michael was recently died and not because of content.

If your conclusion was correct "hence re-worked songs don't sell more than already existing songs" both immortal and bad25 should have performed better or equal to Michael but they aren't. So you are talking about a time specific event and not a general principle.

 

[ADKIc3mAnX]

Definitely not. If they do, I will be extremely pissed off. Remember how mad some people were that Streetwalker/Fly Away/the multi-language versions of I Just Can't Stop Loving You were included on disc two, in the spots where more unreleased songs could have been? It will be the exact same situation. The only song that deserves to be released of your list is A Place with No Name, because we've had a 25-second snippet of that for three years. Why would people pay money for four songs that they've already heard in full and can easily get off any download site?

Now, if they were to include the untouched demo of Slave to the Rhythm, I would understand. But so far as Blue Gangsta, Escape and Do You Know, they should be left alone, as they've leaked in their original forms (minus DYKWYCA, which was a reworked version from 2010, but should still be left alone). Like, how would you feel about this set-up:

1.
2. Slave to the Rhythm
3.
4.
5. Blue Gangsta
6.
7.
8. A Place with No Name
9.
10.
11. Do You Know Where Your Children Are
12. Escape

We'd get seven new songs. While it IS great to get new songs, we would be getting five songs we already heard. Which would be a HUGE waste of space, as they could have included five MORE songs. The next album isn't coming out until mid to late 2013; they have over a year to get it right in the same manner they did with Bad 25.

Well I think all leaked songs should one day be released because first of all they leaked illegally and all that work put into them was for no reason?

Remember with Hold My Hand, Michael wanted it to be the lead single from his next album?

And just because a few fans know of it's existence doesn't mean the world does.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

You said

"when it comes to "Michael" album sales, her argument doesn't hold water, because apparently around same year "This Is It" soundtrack sold more than "Michael". Hence, re-worked songs (on "Michael") don't sell better than the re-release of already existing songs (on "This Is It")."

So your argument was that This is it was a better album - sales wise - when compared to Michael.

And I'm saying it can be an outlier due to the effect of Michael's death. Both Thriller and Number Ones performed better than This is it - again sales wise.

so I'm saying your "hence re-worked songs don't sell more than already existing songs" could be flawed simply due to the fact that in 2009 whatever was readily available were selling in millions just because Michael was recently died and not because of content.

If your conclusion was correct "hence re-worked songs don't sell more than already existing songs" both immortal and bad25 should have performed better or equal to Michael but they aren't. So you are talking about a time specific event and not a general principle.

What I don't get is the comparison between BAD25 sales and Michael. You can then also use the argument that death contributed to sell more Michael albums than BAD 25.

Besides, I still don't get this dissociation from BAD 2001 and BAD.

Also, This Is It was not the only best of available when MJ died. There were double CDs of MJ's best of (King Of Pop) all over the world and in each shop. Yet, people opted for "This Is It". This indicates that MJ's death alone was not sufficient to boost the sales, but that the movie was an excellent promotion when MJ died.

If they could find brilliant ideas to promote MJ's releases they'd sell more. But as long as they emprison their minds in the logic of figures they will be losers like Lady Gaga (yes she's a loser in the sense of short term stardom). They don't need business minds, they already have that in the Estate. They need a creative mind which believes in the magic it can create and jointly with business minds create something that will last. Only then the sales will follow.

 

[ivy]

What I don't get is the comparison between BAD25 sales and Michael. You can then also use the argument that death contributed to sell more Michael albums than BAD 25.

sure, we'll see that as the times go on. If there's the effect of the death on sales then every next album will sell less and less and it would again make it unprofitable to go through the trouble to release any future albums.

Besides, I still don't get this dissociation from BAD 2001 and BAD.

No one is denying Bad sales. Again the only focus here is the "current" sales. My point was - perhaps not understood - if the Estate goes all these trouble to release Bad 25 and if it doesn't perform satisfactory then it will become less likely that there would be a Dangerous or History or Invincible 25. Again all of these sales discussion is about what to expect in regards to future release trends, not to compare and contrast albums in regards to what is best etc.

Edited to add: The sales numbers can also give us an idea about the die-hard fans. Assuming that Bad25 was only for the die-hard fans to rush to get it first week then we are looking to a 123,000 die-hard fans around the world.

Also, This Is It was not the only best of available when MJ died. There were double CDs of MJ's best of (King Of Pop) all over the world and in each shop. Yet, people opted for "This Is It". This indicates that MJ's death alone was not sufficient to boost the sales, but that the movie was an excellent promotion when MJ died.

Well people did not really specifically opted for This is it. In 2009 like I said Thriller, Number Ones, Essential, King of Pop, Bad, Off the Wall and Dangerous also sold millions of units. Everything was being sold in 2009. So you really cannot make a case that people "opted for This is it". Actually they preferred Thriller and Number Ones over This is it.

If they could find brilliant ideas to promote MJ's releases they'd sell more.

It'll be relatively harder for them as they don't have Michael here to promote the albums. Lady Gaga - like her or hate her - is really promoting her album. Justin Bieber's appearances on Dancing with the Stars etc also promoting his album. Adele's concerts and award winning has an effect on the sales.

Estate had promotion ideas as well. Yes I agree that This is it soundtrack benefited a lot from the highly successful film. Michael album had 3 music videos and singles. Bad 25 had the Pepsi campaign. We'll see how the Bad 25 documentary by Spike Lee would have any effect on the sales.

 

[OnirMJ]

Definitely not. If they do, I will be extremely pissed off. Remember how mad some people were that Streetwalker/Fly Away/the multi-language versions of I Just Can't Stop Loving You were included on disc two, in the spots where more unreleased songs could have been? It will be the exact same situation. The only song that deserves to be released of your list is A Place with No Name, because we've had a 25-second snippet of that for three years. Why would people pay money for four songs that they've already heard in full and can easily get off any download site?

Now, if they were to include the untouched demo of Slave to the Rhythm, I would understand. But so far as Blue Gangsta, Escape and Do You Know, they should be left alone, as they've leaked in their original forms (minus DYKWYCA, which was a reworked version from 2010, but should still be left alone). Like, how would you feel about this set-up:

1.
2. Slave to the Rhythm
3.
4.
5. Blue Gangsta
6.
7.
8. A Place with No Name
9.
10.
11. Do You Know Where Your Children Are
12. Escape

We'd get seven new songs. While it IS great to get new songs, we would be getting five songs we already heard. Which would be a HUGE waste of space, as they could have included five MORE songs. The next album isn't coming out until mid to late 2013; they have over a year to get it right in the same manner they did with Bad 25.

I don't agree with you at all. It is your problem that you listened something that was not released. Some thief stole something, put it on the internet and you illegally downloaded it. That is not the reason why those songs should not be released. Those songs are UNRELEASED material, Streetwalker, Fly Away and Todo Mi Amor Eres Tu were already released songs! I would be very happy if they release all those songs on the next album.

Downloading stolen material on the internet for free is illegal and that's why people should pay money for those songs. And amazing songs could never be a "HUGE waste of space". Cascio tracks are HUGE waste of space.

 

[OnirMJ]

This part I disagree. Only two people sold over 10 million mark- Lady Gaga and Adele. I'm thinking 10 Million mark is unrealistic with Michael not being around and not promoting the album with the concerts and such. The second ranking albums sold around 5-6 Million max. I think that's a more realistic number in regards to what could be an upper limit for sales.

I disagree. 10 MIL is very realistic in my opinion if they've released no Cascio songs, Hollywood without that bridge or with original bridge and with all demos on CD2 for the fans and collectors.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

sure, we'll see that as the times go on. If there's the effect of the death on sales then every next album will sell less and less and it would again make it unprofitable to go through the trouble to release any future albums.

That's not true, because the death itself is not the only contributor to the sales. There are many other factors:

-is it new or a re-release
-is there a controversy
-is it properly promoted
-is it a good quality
-are there similar products being sold at the same time
etc.

No one is denying Bad sales. Again the only focus here is the "current" sales. My point was - perhaps not understood - if the Estate goes all these trouble to release Bad 25 and if it doesn't perform satisfactory then it will become less likely that there would be a Dangerous or History or Invincible 25. Again all of these sales discussion is about what to expect in regards to future release trends, not to compare and contrast albums in regards to what is best etc.

But my point is not the old sales only. My point IS current sales. What I meant is that alongside "BAD 25", currently there is also "BAD 2001" and "BAD" that are not removed from the shells. They are offered as alternatives to BAD 25 or vice versa. So businesswise it would be foolish to expect BAD 25 to sell more than a studio album such as "Michael". That's why it's uncomparable.

Well people did not really specifically opted for This is it. In 2009 like I said Thriller, Number Ones, Essential, King of Pop, Bad, Off the Wall and Dangerous also sold millions of units. Everything was being sold in 2009. So you really cannot make a case that people "opted for This is it". Actually they preferred Thriller and Number Ones over This is it.

Well, what I meant is that, unlike BAD 25, "Michael" too had benefitted ot only from the death publicity, but also from the fact that it was a long awaited new studio album since 2001. And that 9 year long wait alone contributed to the sales more than BAD 25 which came along rather as a surprise for mainly fans. For general public BAD and BAD 2001 was sufficient, and I highly doubt it that the Estate wasn't aware of it. Of course that every businessman expects to sell the max, but again, i doubt the Estate expected BAD 25 to sell more than "Michael". And again, mathematically speaking BAD 25 cannot be isolated from BAD and BAD 2001 as they are also currently offered in the shops, which means people have choice between three different packages: BAD, BAD 2001 and BAD 25. If they opt to buy BAD or BAD 2001 instead of BAD 25, we cannot exclude them from the sales. In other words, currently BAD and BAD 2001 are detriment to BAD 25, teh same way OTW 2001, Thriller 2001, BAD 2001 and Dangerous 2001 went to the detriment of Invincible. MJ's previous success on thsoe albums practically shaded Invincible.

be relatively harder for them as they don't have Michael here to promote the albums. Lady Gaga - like her or hate her - is really promoting her album. Justin Bieber's appearances on Dancing with the Stars etc also promoting his album. Adele's concerts and award winning has an effect on the sales.

Harder doesn't mean impossible. With a creative mind everything is possible. Michael believed in his short film creations. They have to find a creative alternative.

Estate had promotion ideas as well. Yes I agree that This is it soundtrack benefited a lot from the highly successful film. Michael album had 3 music videos and singles. Bad 25 had the Pepsi campaign. We'll see how the Bad 25 documentary by Spike Lee would have any effect on the sales.

Pepsi campaign was not as global as back in 1987-88. The building of hype should be continuous. But I have impression that they just triggered it and stopped at teh worst moment.

 

[Korgnex]

Much Too Soon - early demo recording leaked weeks prior to release

The leaked version is just another (unfinished) mix of the 2010 messed up version by John McClain.

And on topic:
MICHAEL not coming close to its maximum sales potential (though performing stable, just not anything spectacular - current top sales figures are unrealistic for any MJ CDs since the hype has died down) isn't really associated with the Cascio controversy. The whole album was considered a FAKE rendition of Michael's art because every single song has been messed up (with "Hold My Hand" and "Another Day" having the fewest of all changes) and that's been talked about widely even in the media and by music critics. The hard-core fan base does not contribute much to the overall sales on a percentage basis. Every single MJ CD is not supported by fans only, it is supported by casual buyers, a fan base is only a nice boosting factor for every kind of commercial project and can especially support projects for a smaller clientage (take the Hip-O Select releases for example which are focusing on Jackson 5/MJ fans mainly).

 

[OnirMJ]

And on topic:
MICHAEL not coming close to its maximum sales potential (though performing stable, just not anything spectacular - current top sales figures are unrealistic for any MJ CDs since the hype has died down) isn't really associated with the Cascio controversy.

You can't be more wrong. Cascio controversy IS the main reason why the album sales were poor.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Well regarding "Michael" low sales I think they messed up with the number of songs they put on it as well.

Just imagine, you are one of the people in the general public who is not necessarily an MJ fan, but who likes MJ's music. The news that MJ is dead is still quite fresh in your mind and for the first time you say to yourself "OK, he's dead, it was a great artist, I'd like to have at least the music I enjoyed made by him, so I'm going to buy his new album". So you go the the shop and see plenty of freshly displayed "Michael" CDs. You naturally grab one and take a look at the back of it to see the tracklisting. What do you see? Barely 10 songs on a whole CD.

Next to the album "Michael" you see the greatest hits such as "King of pop". You grab it and you take a look at its back. What do you see? A double CD filled with awesome tracklisting. And what is more, you realize that there are all the titles you enjoyed throughout the years prior to MJ's death.

So which one do you choose as a casual buyer for practically the same price? Let's face it, "Michael" couldn't stand a chance with such a short tracklisting at a time when people were looking for some music they knew they were going to enjoy from the moment they put it into their CD player.

Now, what has been done regarding "Michael" to attract new public? Some nice nostalgic videos like HMH, BTM and HT and it stopped there.

In the meantime the controversy among fans did reach the Estate's ears. So the projects to promote the album, like "Monster" cd single, were aborted.

In that sense, regardless of the sold units, "Michael" was a huge flop in terms of managerial precautions and inevitabely its promotion. We cannot deny that those controversial songs did contribute to the flop musically speaking and also, consequently, to the poor sales.

The paradox in all this is that, luckily, they put only ten songs on that album. I hope they reserved the best to come without those controversial songs.

p.s. If in the future they decide to put a track list of 10 songs on a CD, they definitely should look forward to finding a way to fill the remaining empty space on that CD with something creative rather than leaving it empty.

 

[StellaJackson]

Definitely not. If they do, I will be extremely pissed off. Remember how mad some people were that Streetwalker/Fly Away/the multi-language versions of I Just Can't Stop Loving You were included on disc two, in the spots where more unreleased songs could have been? It will be the exact same situation. The only song that deserves to be released of your list is A Place with No Name, because we've had a 25-second snippet of that for three years. Why would people pay money for four songs that they've already heard in full and can easily get off any download site?

Now, if they were to include the untouched demo of Slave to the Rhythm, I would understand. But so far as Blue Gangsta, Escape and Do You Know, they should be left alone, as they've leaked in their original forms (minus DYKWYCA, which was a reworked version from 2010, but should still be left alone). Like, how would you feel about this set-up:

1.
2. Slave to the Rhythm
3.
4.
5. Blue Gangsta
6.
7.
8. A Place with No Name
9.
10.
11. Do You Know Where Your Children Are
12. Escape

We'd get seven new songs. While it IS great to get new songs, we would be getting five songs we already heard. Which would be a HUGE waste of space, as they could have included five MORE songs. The next album isn't coming out until mid to late 2013; they have over a year to get it right in the same manner they did with Bad 25.

The version of Slave that leaked is the reworked version, not the original.

This would be my ideal tracklist:

1. Slave To The Rhythm
2. Escape
3. A Place With No Name
4. If You Don't Love Me
5. Love Never Felt So Good
6. I Was The Loser
7. Blue Gangster
8. Invincible outtake
9. Invincible outtake
10. Do You Know Where Your Children Are
11. Will.I.Am track
12. Will.I.Am track

It would come in a standard case with lyric book and rare pics but there would then be a deluxe version in deluxe packaging with extra photos, a poster and a bonus disc including:

1. Slave To The Rhythm original version
2. Scream demo
3. Invincible track demo
4. Invincible track demo
5. Invincible track demo
6. Shout (because it needs more exposure and is still not available digitally)
7. Slave To The Rhythm remix by a contemporary DJ

I would release one big single (up tempo) to kick it off and do a computer animated video with a CG Michael but make it "cartoony", maybe anime style, or else it could appear creepy.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

The version of Slave that leaked is the reworked version, not the original.

This would be my ideal tracklist:

1. Slave To The Rhythm
2. Escape
3. A Place With No Name
4. If You Don't Love Me
5. Love Never Felt So Good
6. I Was The Loser
7. Blue Gangster
8. Invincible outtake
9. Invincible outtake
10. Do You Know Where Your Children Are
11. Will.I.Am track
12. Will.I.Am track

It would come in a standard case with lyric book and rare pics but there would then be a deluxe version in deluxe packaging with extra photos, a poster and a bonus disc including:

1. Slave To The Rhythm original version
2. Scream demo
3. Invincible track demo
4. Invincible track demo
5. Invincible track demo
6. Shout (because it needs more exposure and is still not available digitally)
7. Slave To The Rhythm remix by a contemporary DJ

I would release one big single (up tempo) to kick it off and do a computer animated video with a CG Michael but make it "cartoony", maybe anime style, or else it could appear creepy.

What do you mean "digitally"? It came out on a MAXI CD back in 2001/2002. As far as I know CD is "digital".

 

[ADKIc3mAnX]

The version of Slave that leaked is the reworked version, not the original.

This would be my ideal tracklist:

1. Slave To The Rhythm
2. Escape
3. A Place With No Name
4. If You Don't Love Me
5. Love Never Felt So Good
6. I Was The Loser
7. Blue Gangster
8. Invincible outtake
9. Invincible outtake
10. Do You Know Where Your Children Are
11. Will.I.Am track
12. Will.I.Am track

It would come in a standard case with lyric book and rare pics but there would then be a deluxe version in deluxe packaging with extra photos, a poster and a bonus disc including:

1. Slave To The Rhythm original version
2. Scream demo
3. Invincible track demo
4. Invincible track demo
5. Invincible track demo
6. Shout (because it needs more exposure and is still not available digitally)
7. Slave To The Rhythm remix by a contemporary DJ

I would release one big single (up tempo) to kick it off and do a computer animated video with a CG Michael but make it "cartoony", maybe anime style, or else it could appear creepy.

Good idea of the animated video!

I would love for them to make something like that for Al Capone but that is a whole other thing.

 

[StellaJackson]

What do you mean "digitally"? It came out on a MAXI CD back in 2001/2002. As far as I know CD is "digital".

I mean on itunes etc. It is the only main MJ song not available on digital download.

Btw, I think they were trying with the Michael album after it was released to promote it. For example, the BTM video with the fans was not the original version. A whole video with professional dancers was shot and then scrapped by the Estate in favour of doing the fan version because it wasn't good enough.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

The Estate should bring MJ's legacy to the new level. I also was thinking of an animated MJ. I was actually thinking they could create a kind of an animated/manga superhero MJ character. Make hype and kind of mythical persona around that superhero. Something like Marvel did. On the one hand they have movies and on the other hand they have comics and cartoons.

p.s. And MJ did it also with the bunny on Speed Demon video, with kids in Badder video. There were also J5 cartoons. Michael as a zombie in Thriller, Michael as a ghoul and skeleton in Ghosts, Michael as a modern Robin Hood in Say, Say, Say, Michael as astronaut on History World Tour and Dangerous World Tour too,..

I mean, Michael had created so many characters, and we often fail to see it. Thanks to his creativity those characters could be further exploited, developped, and make something out of them.

 

[Pentum]

i've heard 'Free' before Bad 25 came out. way before.

You've heard Free before it came out on BAD 25? Elaborate?

 

[Korgnex]

Guess, he mixed it up with "Fly Away".

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

You've heard Free before it came out on BAD 25? Elaborate?

He didn't say by whom

[youtube]1cym5hwOlm4[/youtube]