[ Pretrial Discussion Closed ] AEG files summary judgment motion to dismiss Katherine's lawsuit

[8701girl]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

Yes i totally agree

 

[scorpion]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

AEG has its defense strategy long before this trial.
In addition I can tell based on allegations and known facts , AEG is not responsible for "accidental" death of MJ.

if they also get away from murder, actually never get garged, that will be very odd from Jacksons & justice perspective.

 

[ivy]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

uhm , no idea what this is about

04/26/2013 Notice of Appeal
Filed by Attorney for Plaintiff/Petitioner

 

[jamba]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

About the rehearsals, musikfactory had a good post about how the cameras used to film the rehearsals were good enough for a feature film and Kenny Ortega said in the trial and other places that there was a plan to do a 'making of' the This Is It tour, so MJ's appearance was a must for that option. According to Ortega, he and MJ met in the early stages as co-directors and planned many things--the entire concept of the show and other spin-off projects (like the 'making of').

I think as others have said that there were many stresses hitting MJ simultaneously and at a time when he was making a comeback after a lengthy time away from the stage and from the public. I have no doubt AEG was stressing him, and I agree the scheduling wasn't what he needed--2 per week was the way to go. But it was Murray that killed him, not AEG, and I do not believe AEG had any idea that Murray's 'treatments' included make-shift propofol in his bedroom with no training or equipment. The fact that Murray did not know what to do when MJ stopped breathing, that he did not immediately call 911, means that even then, MJ could have been saved if Murray had been more competent and responsible. The fact that Murray goes around blaming MJ, which Judge Pastor lit into him about, just shows what kind of person he is--not to mention the recording of MJ while under sedatives. He is unethical beyond belief.

Right now, due to this trial, AEG will be forced to portray MJ as a past user of prescription and other drugs, but also claim that they were unaware of the full history and extent of this. They will have to do this to defend themselves. If you care about MJ's legacy more than any abstract concept of 'justice' or making someone besides Murray pay for his death, you have to lament the damage to his legacy and reputation that this trial will bring. The Estate is working for MJ's legacy, for his family (meaning his beneficiaries), but this trial is running counter to this. The kids are well provided for and so is KJ. This trial will make MJ look bad and I care about that more than I care about someone else getting 40 billion or 10 billion or 0 million or whatever.

 

[bad25]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

Money hungry J family and AEG who will do anything just to defend themselves. I'm not on either sides.

 

[Annita]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

AEG is constantly rewriting history. Only recently I found photographer Kevin Mazur (who worked during the rehearsals for AEG) lying about the date of the pictures taken of Michael Jackson. He dated the picture of his rehearsal made at Staples Center on June 23d as the one made a month earlier - on May, 28 and the photo with a forged date was published in no other place but the LA Times.

Mazur always speaks from pictures in June 23.

http://www.justjared.com/2009/06/29/michael-jackson-final-rehearsal/

There are many interviews about this shortly after MJ`s death.

 

[passy001]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

uhm , no idea what this is about

04/26/2013 Notice of Appeal
Filed by Attorney for Plaintiff/Petitioner

Could it be about some of the claims that were dismissed during the summary judgement? there was rumor at one point that they will appeal the ruling.

 

[AliCat]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

Here is a song that military men would sing before going into battle in our modern times. Since the battle begins next week, the Civil trial between Katherine Jackson and AEG Live, who I feel caused Michael's death!

 

[Tygger]

I know you post was regarding inconsistencies but can I just say if Michael's own Mother did not know of the drug Murray was using to put Michael to 'sleep' (and given that KJ toured with Michael in the past) then how on earth could AEG know?

And you are right, none of us will be ashamed of Michael, however, we have to witness him being dragged through all the media and he can't defend himself.

I don't think that's an inconsistencies but those are definitely helping AEG. How can Jacksons argue "AEG should have known" when themselves say "I didn't know"?

Last Tear, Ivy, Michael’s mother did not have a professional relationship with Michael and the tour doctors on any tours that I am aware of. Gongaware had a professional relationship with Michael and the tour doctors as per Dr. Finkelstein’s deposition. As per this doctor, Gongaware understood what was necessary for Michael to perform.

Last Tear, I have heard negative comments about the Jackson Family (including Michael) for decades. I personally cannot blame this family, nor do I feel they are responsible, for the reactions of media outlets and others to this lawsuit and their choices.

Fans on here all pay lip service to how they know aeg is a ruthless, greedy company ready to do anything to protect themselves from the claims, but when anything dubious comes up, aeg tend to get defended and attempts made to explain it away and the benefit of the doubt always given to them. I've found it odd, you can be against the jacksons lawsuit but i don't see how that translates automatically into defending aeg. Not a criticism, just my observation.

I found it is difficult for some to explain why the plaintiffs should fail in this trial without resorting to any number of negative descriptions of the plaintiffs and family members not on this lawsuit. I have been expressing my view that the plaintiffs should be successful without directing any disparaging comments to any AEG members. However, it is my choice to express my views that way; others may feel differently and that is fine.

In the circumstances it isn’t even the matter of how much Katherine gets (if she does) – it is solely the matter of how much AEG loses.

Agreed. If the plaintiffs are successful, they have proven negligent hiring and culpability of the defendants in their son/father’s death. With a successful verdict, it will not concern me if the jury decides to bankrupt the company.

Beyond Michael, this trial will help prevent other music executives from turning a convenient blind eye when monetary ends justifies unhealthy means.

 

[Bubs]

I know it's off topic but I wonder why Helena came here given what she thinks of that forum

My reply is not for you Shelly, but this Helena person.

She posted this these to her blog:
----------------------------------------------------
The fact that the media says it is not surprising – we never expected anything of them. But who do you think is saying this?

I’m looking forward seeing Katherine on stand and trying to keep up with her web of lies.
I hope AEG has been keeping tabs on their interviews and use them in trial for exposing their lies and how they twist everything to fit their agenda.
At this stage, I don’t care how badly K and her cubs are exposed during the trial, they deserve every bit of it, and more.
I can’t wait to see all of the Jacksons explain away how they change their minds to suit. I hope AEG have done their homework. And I am seriously hoping LaToya is called, can’t wait to see her explanation of how she knows her brother was murdered.
AEG’s strategy should be to go after her and her real motivations for filing this lawsuit.
By showing her contradictions and lies to the jurors, AEG might be able to reduce the amount of money (in case AEG loses) jurors are willing to award Katherine. If AEG shows the lies, contradictions, Katherine’s own responsibility to MJ, her greediness for money will portray her in bad light, so I think it might help AEG reduce the amount she’ll be awarded if any, at least I hope so.
-------------------------------------------------------

Helena, most of these are my opinions and my opinions only. My opinions do not represent MJJC opnions so I would appriciate if you want to tackle with me, do it directly with me and stop accusing MJJC for my personal opinions.


As for "who do you think is saying this"
That is me expressing my anger towards K and her family for what they are doing to Michael with this lawsuit, just like you are expressing your anger towards AEG via your words.
I'm just a person who doesn't kiss the ground where Katherine or any member of Jackson family walks just because they happen to be his family members, although the jury is still out whether Michael is really their sibling or son.

"However instead of Michael’s fans I found myself surrounded by AEG’s collaborators calling Katherine an enemy and dragging through the mud her and her “deadbeat cubs”."

I'm fan of Michael ,but being fan of his, does not require me to be fan of his family.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

well said. my question is does she support and love mj or does she support and love the family. because in this case katherine is sacrificing her son in order to win money for the rest of her children. do you not have any problem with katherine allowing her children and lawyers to lie by calling michael a alcoholic a drug addict allow all his medical records to be out out there. are you happy that michael is being thrown under a bus for the sake of the rest of the family so they can have more money than mj ever had. money that he worked and died for. so before you accuse ppl that love and support michael and only michael and hate that what is left of his reputation is being destroyed by his own family in their desire for cash maybe you should look at what is being done to him and ask your self the question that you ask of others. i support michael and no one else therefore will never support those that are throwing mj under a bus even if they hapoen to share the same dna as mj. imo that makes them even worse. they instigated this lawsuit out of greed and now mj and his kids will pay as AEG have every right to defend themselves. so both sides will be out to destroy mj. as someone who loves mj that destroys me inside and even more so that kj is the one doing it. sickened but not surorised as the goid of the family as a whole was alawYs more important than the individual and once again mj must pay the price for that

I don't want to defend AEG or the Jacksons. I want to defend Michael, remember him? I am so sick and tired of watching Michael get dragged through the mud, called names, ridiculed, made fun of, disrespected and so on. I don't think I have ever seen anyone bullied and trashed as Michael was. I have been a fan long enough to see it all. He is dead and people keep doing it. Why? Nothing will change my love for Michael and nothing in this trial will change that for me. BOTH sides will trash Michael to get what they want. I wish everybody would leave him the hell alone. I am sorry but I can't take this anymore.

 

[helena1247]

Mazur always speaks from pictures in June 23.

http://www.justjared.com/2009/06/29/...nal-rehearsal/

There are many interviews about this shortly after MJ`s death. .

That’s right, and this is why it is amazing to see a LA Times article dated April this year with a photo taken by Kevin Mazur who now says it was dated May 28, 2013:

Michael Jackson had been in rehearsals for his "This Is It" comeback tour at the time of his death. (Kevin Mazur / May 28, 2009)

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-ln-la-jackson-aeg-20130410,0,5459012.story

I comment on these posts as any member so please don't refer to me as a "senior admin". I'm only a senior admin if and when I moderate your posts. As the only thing I did was to approve your posts, my staff position is totally irrelevant here. Plus I don't remember at any time I claimed to be perfect or without bias. I actually said " I would prefer everyone not to be biased and wait to see but unfortunately it doesn't happen". I just called complaining about people's stand against jacksons was hypocritical given that you are openly negative towards AEG. .

I refer to you as a senior admin as your own credentials say that you are Senior Staff here. And as long as you moderate my posts, do not admit them or allow them your staff position is absolutely relevant for my opportunity to speak here.

I hoped you would appreciate my honesty in stating pointblank that as a result of my study of AEG/MJ papers I am openly negative towards AEG. This is called openness and is not even remotely close to a truly hypocritical position when people profess one thing and do exactly the opposite.

I didn't know I was required to provide you with tour contracts. The simple fact still remains the same. You didn't see a tour contract. I didn't see a tour contract. The determination whether AEG contract "good" or "bad" is totally subjective. At no time I commented on the contract or if you want to call it an "intent" contract in that regards. btw - I'm actually knowledgeable about business contracts as well. .

You were so sure that other tour promoters do the same that I thought you had seen their tour documents, and therefore asked for them, but if you have no other contracts how would you know that AEG’s contract is no different than the others?

And I know that you are very knowledgeable of business contracts, and therefore will agree that business matters are greatly standardized to ease business disputes in case of arbitration. All contracts follow general rules and if these rules are not fulfilled the agreements may be found void, invalid, etc.

The rules are as strict as the green or red traffic lights, leaving no room for dispute there. And the AEG “intent” contract does not answer these criteria – there are too many inconsistencies, inaccuracies, and conflicting points, up to the conflict of interest due to sharing one lawyer.

One of the many examples is: the attachment says that the Collateral will not affect the Artist individually and the contract says it does. And if Michael as an individual is to answer for the default in payment by all his individual assets this opens way to his catalog.

Furthermore Michael's catalogs which are pretty safe in bankruptcy remote trusts and not owned by MJ Company was pretty secure and $6 Million advance or $36 Million costs would only mean that AEG could have only wanted that much money back from Michael and not "everything".
…None which change the fact you claimed AEG can get "everything" Michael owned and they could get his catalogs. Both of which are legally impossible. .

Thank you for reminding me, I forgot to cover that point earlier.

- In case Michael delayed payment by 5 days at least one of the mysterious “monthly installments” (which are nowhere to be found in those papers) he was required by AEG to pay back the whole sum of advances given to him. These included the $36mln production costs which, for some reason, were placed by AEG fully on Michael’s shoulders plus the $6mln advances proper

(Why isn’t anyone here resentful of the fact that Michael was to cover ALL production costs? Salary to staff, transportation, accommodation, taxes, etc.? Do you consider it normal?)

- So the advances make $40mln. In case Michael did not pay back at once, all assets of his company were to become AEG’s. No bankruptcy could save Michael from the need to pay (this was specially stipulated by AEG).

- In case of non-payment the same paper was turning into a general power-of-attorney which allowed AEG to act in the name of Michael Jackson (to sue, get all future earnigs, etc).

- The contract was also opening access to Michael’s Individual assets, and this means the catalogs

- The catalogs were protected by the Trusts, but no Trust protects against the award of the court in case AEG sued. And AEG could sue.

- AEG would not have claimed only $40mln. but damages for their arena staying vacant as a result of cancellation for 50 dates. Plus loss of profit.

- The O2 arena has 20,000 seats. If one seat is a minumum 50 pounds it is 1 million pounds per date, so the minimal damages for 50 dates would have been 50 million pounds. Add to it the loss of profit, legal fees, etc. and you will understand that Michael would not have been unable to pay it without losing his catalog.

This is why Michael could not afford to cancel the contract – it would have triggered off this avalanche of events which were stipulated by AEG well in advance, as if a threat to Michael or a desired scenario for themselves.

If Tohme is being accused of making bad deals for Michael , why not think about his responsibility in AEG deal as well? .

His responsibility in the AEG deal is huge and that is why Michael fired Tohme in March 2009 - as soon as he realized what catastrophe Tohme had arranged for him in the form of those 50 dates and the impossible regimen of performing every other day.

Despite the delay of the first five days the overall regimen did not change and REMAINED THE SAME
AEG did not accept Tohme’s dismissal and as late as the end of June Randy Phillips was still introducing Tohme to everyone as Michael’s manager. They could not agree to his dismissal as their own contract with Michael Jackson was fine-tuned for Tohme and Tohme alone.

Michael was not even to receive money directly – his company was which was run by Tohme at the time. Take away Tohme and their contract would have fallen apart. But this is exactly what Michael Jackson did. He fired Tohme and this is the best proof that he was fighting these people till the end.

No I don't say all media is lying. But if we have court documents filed by Lloyds itself and those say the second physical was July 6th and you still choose to believe an unnamed source that said it was June 26th, I think that is problematic. .

The matter of the date itself is not that important. The urgency that was driving Conrad Murray the night Michael died was still there – even if it was July 6th it was still pretty tight if the weekends are off. The facts still remained the same: 1) Murray was acting on AEG’s orders 2) the second medical examination was due very soon 3) this examination was not stipulated by the first insurance policy for 10 dates only.

So are you saying Lloyds is lying on their own lawsuit? Why are you rejecting what Lloyds is saying? .

No, Llloyds is not lying, but you and I are talking about two different Lloyds documents.

The first insurance was made in MARCH 2009 as Randy Phillips spoke about it at that time as something AEG already had in their pocket. And the insurance you are talking of was signed in APRIL 2009. They must have simply cancelled the first and signed the second as too many terms had to be changed. Of course Lloyds provided the court with the final variant only.

This second insurance policy required a new medical examination, the medical records, Lloyd’s personal presence at a rehearsal, etc. Michael did not agree as he did not agree to the 30 (not to mention 50) concerts in the first place. He was hurt by AEG and Tohme arbitrarily forcing him into 50 concerts, and now they demand he undergoes the second examination due to that? This is a pure insult.

The Lloyds’ papers available to us do not show the exact date when the final variant was made (though they do say that it becomes effective in April). The Insurance journal just states that it was made in April, but this is already enough for us to realize that it was the second variant, not the one discussed by Randy Phillips in March:

By Anthony McCartney | June 7, 2011
Underwriters at Lloyd’s of London sued AEG Live and Jackson’s company, claiming the concert promoter has failed to provide necessary medical information and details about the physician charged with the singer’s death.
The suit states Lloyd’s issued a non-appearance and concert cancellation policy in April 2009 — roughly two months before the pop superstar died.
The insurer states a medical exam of Jackson required by the policy was never conducted, and that they should not have to pay out for the 50 canceled shows scheduled for London’s O2 arena.
An email message seeking comment from AEG was not immediately returned.
Copyright 2013 Associated Press.
http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/west/2011/06/07/201668.htm

Summary:
1) the first Insurance policy was for 10 days, signed sometime in March. It did not require any further medical examination.

2) the second variant was for 30 days, signed in April and required a new physical and other procedures

3) Michael did not agree to the second one. He was still sticking to the point that the initial number was 10, and the increase up to 50 dates was an arbitrary AEG’s decision, so since they made this trouble so they should face the music themselves.

- AEG is constantly rewriting history. Helena
- so? that's totally irrelevant to Lloyds issue. Ivy.

The above shows that rewriting history is a favorite AEG’s method.

 

[Annita]

That’s right, and this is why it is amazing to see a LA Times article dated April this year with a photo taken by Kevin Mazur who now says it was dated May 28, 2013:

Michael Jackson had been in rehearsals for his "This Is It" comeback tour at the time of his death. (Kevin Mazur / May 28, 2009)

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-ln-la-jackson-aeg-20130410,0,5459012.story

This is not a quotation from Mazur. LA-Times dated it wrong.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

what is left of mjs rep is being destroyed by his own family because of their desire for money. while his killer has been making money on the today show saying he did nothing wrong. as a michael fan you support that?

Why d u ignore the contract that mj signed that said there would be a minimum of 18 shows and a max of 31.there was never only going to be ten shows. ten shows were anounced at first to see what the reaction would be. but the contract clearly shows there was never going to be only ten shows. the only bone of contention is
the extra 19 added on

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

I have to say its strange how when its shown mj would not lose the cats and everything according to the contract if he cancelled but would have owed production costs etc like any other contract that the argument then changes to well he would have had to sell the cats to pay it back. thats very different than saying it was written in the contract that he would have to hand them over. mj would have owed 35 mill? thi.k i read that figure.Ivy please correct if im wrong. how mj would have decided to pay back that money would have been upto him but certainly no one would have made him sell the cat and if he hadnt sold it to pay off 200 mill plus loans then i doubt he would have sold it to pay off a figure that compaired was measley

 

[LastTear]

@Tygger

Last Tear, Ivy, Michael’s mother did not have a professional relationship with Michael and the tour doctors on any tours that I am aware of. Gongaware had a professional relationship with Michael and the tour doctors as per Dr. Finkelstein’s deposition. As per this doctor, Gongaware understood what was necessary for Michael to perform.

Last Tear, I have heard negative comments about the Jackson Family (including Michael) for decades. I personally cannot blame this family, nor do I feel they are responsible, for the reactions of media outlets and others to this lawsuit and their choices.

But she actually had a closer relationship with Michael than any professional, she didn't need an appointment, and there had emotional connections. In my mind it is quite feasible that only Michael and his personal doctor knew exactly what medications he was being administered. And that's my point, I'm not saying that KJ should have know, I'm saying that I feel it is highly possible that neither KJ not AEG actually knew how Murray was treating Michael.

I blame this lawsuit for the horrendous media stories of late, yes there have been plenty of such stories over the years, but these recent ones we would not be seeing if it wasn't for this lawsuit.

***********

I have made this clear on this board many times over, I feel very strongly that restitution should have been sought from CM and I was angry that he could treat our Michael with such little regard and serves such a short sentence in county jail (not even prison), and then that's it he just gets on with his life.

I am very concerned that this trial will take the heat off CM and put the blame on Michael which in turn will cause some sympathies for CM and therefore make him more appealing for media outlets.

I felt at the very start of this trial when I read the charges - that despite how I felt about CM perhaps there was a case to answer and I would wait to see the evidence. Well as it was quickly shown that the judge felt there was no case to answer on most of the charges, so we are left with only negligent hiring. Is that really worth letting CM off the hook for? A win for KJ on the hiring doesn't prove all the other charges. (Although I think some fans will just run with it anyway).

I don't support AEG, I don't agree with Katherine letting CM off the hook, I wish this lawsuit would just go away before any more 'dragging' of Michael takes place. And yes, first and foremost I do believe the basis of this trial is money.

 

[shelly_webster]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

Last Tear, I have heard negative comments about the Jackson Family (including Michael) for decades. I personally cannot blame this family, nor do I feel they are responsible, for the reactions of media outlets and others to this lawsuit and their choices.

But you can't blame the media outlet or others for that either. Had they behave like a normal grieving family, the reactions would have been very different. If you start selling stories about your dead brother, son, you will be treated like a very greedy person.

 

[gerryevans]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

Beyond Michael, this trial will help prevent other music executives from turning a convenient blind eye when monetary ends justifies unhealthy means.

Except a blind eye wasn't turned. There was a group meeting in which MJ assured them he was ready. There were two subsequent rehearsals after that meeting where MJ was fantastic. Where a grammy executive who attended, and had nothing to do with AEG, said MJ was in full form. Where MJ himself said in leaving the last rehearsal that he could take it from there. By ALL accounts, the King was back.

Considering those last two rehearsals, I don't know how ANYONE could have foreseen what happened.

MJ proved himself in them. But despite them, should the music executives said, sorry, we're pulling the plug? There was no reason to believe at that time he should not be given the chance he WANTED to proceed.

I don't believe music executives today or in the future would pull the plug after those performances.

If you're saying they should not have listened to him in that meeting, should not have given him the opportunity to prove he could do it, then I disagree.

 

[LastTear]

My reply is not for you Shelly, but this Helena person.

She posted this these to her blog:
----------------------------------------------------
The fact that the media says it is not surprising – we never expected anything of them. But who do you think is saying this?

I’m looking forward seeing Katherine on stand and trying to keep up with her web of lies.
I hope AEG has been keeping tabs on their interviews and use them in trial for exposing their lies and how they twist everything to fit their agenda.
At this stage, I don’t care how badly K and her cubs are exposed during the trial, they deserve every bit of it, and more.
I can’t wait to see all of the Jacksons explain away how they change their minds to suit. I hope AEG have done their homework. And I am seriously hoping LaToya is called, can’t wait to see her explanation of how she knows her brother was murdered.
AEG’s strategy should be to go after her and her real motivations for filing this lawsuit.
By showing her contradictions and lies to the jurors, AEG might be able to reduce the amount of money (in case AEG loses) jurors are willing to award Katherine. If AEG shows the lies, contradictions, Katherine’s own responsibility to MJ, her greediness for money will portray her in bad light, so I think it might help AEG reduce the amount she’ll be awarded if any, at least I hope so.
-------------------------------------------------------

Helena, most of these are my opinions and my opinions only. My opinions do not represent MJJC opnions so I would appriciate if you want to tackle with me, do it directly with me and stop accusing MJJC for my personal opinions.


As for "who do you think is saying this"
That is me expressing my anger towards K and her family for what they are doing to Michael with this lawsuit, just like you are expressing your anger towards AEG via your words.
I'm just a person who doesn't kiss the ground where Katherine or any member of Jackson family walks just because they happen to be his family members, although the jury is still out whether Michael is really their sibling or son.

"However instead of Michael’s fans I found myself surrounded by AEG’s collaborators calling Katherine an enemy and dragging through the mud her and her “deadbeat cubs”."

I'm fan of Michael ,but being fan of his, does not require me to be fan of his family.

Well said Bubs.

The bolded are my words, and I stand by them. The Jacksons have chopped and changed and I'm interested to know more about that. LaToya has repeatedly mad these very serious allegations and I am deeply interested to hear her evidence. I don't see the problem in wanting the details of these various statements made by them.

 

[shelly_webster]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

"Beyond Michael, this trial will help prevent other music executives from turning a convenient blind eye when monetary ends justifies unhealthy means."

It willchange nothing, the doctors will be paid by the artist not by the company, that's all.

 

[helena1247]

- I feel once you make up your mind, you refuse any and all new information presented to you. At least that's how I felt during my interactions with you. Still you are rejecting documents filed by Lloyds against AEG simply because it goes against your "well informed" scenario. Why this constant refusal to evaluate the new information? .

You won’t believe it but I have formed a similar impression too. As regards Lloyds I've just answered you in an earlier reply. The rest of the information was not new to me (but thanks anyway). I studied it long ago.

so you read Prince's deposition to determine that AEG was aggressive with Prince? Let's be realistic here. No you didn't. You believed Katherine's version over AEG's in which AEG said not only they weren't aggressive but Katherine thanked them for their hospitality.

But why should I believe AEG and not the version of Michael Jackson’s mother?? Your choice of AEG over Katherine betrays your own preferences.

There's no rule that says we need to support Katherine just because she's his mother.

You yourself are calling on me to be unbiased towards AEG. If you keep to the position of total neutrality why don’t you remind each and everybody here that they should be unbiased towards Katherine too?

And I am expressing my opinion of AEG based on extensive studies of the case, so why does almost everyone here reprimand me for my research instead of looking into these facts?

Not a single person here has said to me yet that 50 concerts non-agreed with Michael (which are not even in that contract) are an outrage. It really does create the impression that no one cares. But Katherine Jackson DOES care and wants answers to her legitimate questions.

And I am not even saying that if Michael heard what is being said about his mother here he would not believe that these are his fans.

I went through a civil wrongful death lawsuit and I don't believe it is "justice" There's no requirement that I should feel and act like you. I haven't believed in a civil wrongful death lawsuit over 20 years. I'm not going to change my personal beliefs.

I don’t believe in them either, but when a criminal trial is impossible this is the only chance Katherine has. She would have gladly had a criminal case against AEG but the legal system decided long ago that it did not have any questions to them.

Not a single significant question about AEG, Tohme and how the AEG deal started at all (and it started with Tom Barrack and the Neverland agreement) was allowed during Murray’s trial – all of them were “irrelevant”. Even questions whether Randy Phillips knew Tohme before that deal were objected to. So this trial is the only chance to learn at least something. Not only Katherine wants to know – many of us do.

This is not an answer to my question , is it? I'm asking you again : If your theory is that Michael only took Propofol because the increased number of 50 concerts stressed him too much, how do you explain Propofol during other tours, Propofol during invincible recording, any drug before two 30th anniversary concerts and so on? Doesn't that all debunk your theory "it was the stress of 50 concerts"?

You are talking of propofol during other tours as if it is an established fact which betrays some preferences and preconceived notions again. However even if we assume that this was the case it does not mean that Propofol was a must in this particular case. There was a time (1993) when Michael was treated for Demerol addiction imposed on him by irresponsible doctors but there was no trace of Demerol found in Michael’s body in 2009, so what do the Demerol events of 1993 have to do with 2009? And the same goes for Propofol.

Why do you prefer general talk about the stress during the previous tours to the concrete talk about these particular 50 shows? Michael said it himself – he did not want 50, they were imposed on him, they were not even in the contract and the schedule was not what he ever expected, so why do you disbelieve that Michael was under the immense stress due to all that? Plus the stress of an insult from AEG who totally disregarded his wishes?

In fact Randy Phillips introduced Tohme as Michael’s manager in June 2009 when Michael had fired him in March. This was total abuse of power on the part of AEG and the demonstration of grave disrespect towards Michael. Michael was extremely intimidated by those instances. This was done in public, in full view of everyone.

I haven't seen absolute proof that the increase to 50 was without his knowledge. Michael's own family the Jacksons claim in their books and in their damages sections that Michael was willing to do a world tour. So isn't Jacksons themselves debunking the "only 10 shows" claims?

It is not the Jacksons who are claiming it in their books. It was Michael Jackson himself who said it on every occasion he had. As regards the world tour there was nothing concrete about it. Just the idea.

well given that how another member posted what you wrote behind our back, excuse me if I don't believe you. It's quite interesting that you can't handle difference of opinions and resort to insulting people if they don't think like you - behind their back nonetheless.

The “other member” mentioned is Shelly who has been expressing pro-AEG views in my blog since times immemorial (and we had several conflicts over it). She still has full access to my blog and the fact that she can see what I write there is the best proof of the openness policy I pursue.

In that text I specifically did not mention a single name or even the name of the forum in order not to insult anyone. If you recognized yourself among “the brainwashed”, “those knowing what they are doing” or even “AEG collaborators”, it is your choice, not mine.

I reserve for myself the right to express (in my blog) my views about what is going on in the fan base as regards the AEG trial and will continue to do it in the general form as long as I am given a chance to express my views here.

You, Shelly or anyone at all can always come to my blog and check up.

I personally stopped reading your blog long long ago when you didn't even consider the information that I provided to you.

What are you talking of? I did consider it and we had a very fruitful discussion with some 10 or more messages exchanged. You did not answer the last one:

http://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2012/03/03/branca-aeg-and-karen-faye/comment-page-1/#comment-22769

I can assure to you that I will personally never post on your blog , never "grab your passwords" and probably never ever going to read your blog posts as well. So relax, world is not out to get you. Enjoy the summaries I provide from the documents I buy with my own money while calling me "brainwashed" or worse behind my back.

My blog is open to all except ped-les. Relaxing has never been an option since the blog started - we are always attacked by various anti-Michael groups. Grabbing passwords is a big issue at the moment and mostly concerns the current problem of one reader whose computer “goes crazy” as she says when she tries to see the blog.

Quite by coincidence this started together with the beginning of the AEG trial. I assumed that AEG (not you) was trying to hack my blog and the assumption was based on the realization that AEG is not happy with my activities. Not that I am someone important but AEG sympathizers do monitor the blog as the example of Shelly shows.

Thank you very much for the summaries. They are always very professional.

I know it's off topic but I wonder why helena came here given what she thinks of our forum

Hello Shelly. The answer is in the text you yourself quoted – I came here for the latest news, and it seems that I got it:

"I won’t tell you what particular forum it is, but it is a well-respected MJ forum which is used by many of us as a reliable source of information (this is why I went there).

Don't forget the Allgood lawsuit. Patrick Alloco sued him for 20 millions 3 weeks before he died.

Unfortunately this was the routine of Michael Jackson’s life and since Michael knew he had never signed any papers with AllGoodEntertainment there was nothing to worry about there. This for sure was no reason for him not to sleep at night, while having to do a show every other day (as AEG and Tohme arranged it) was.

It is important to note that there was absolutely no objective need to arrange the shows in that particular way. When Barbara Streizand was doing her shows on O2 Arena the span between the shows was 3 and sometimes even 4 days.

P.S. And thank you for the chance to post without me having to wait now. It is a decided improvement from the previous time.

 

[helena1247]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

This is not a quotation from Mazur. LA-Times dated it wrong.

The LA Times referred to Kevin Mazur/ May 28, 2009 which at least to me means that it is Kevin Mazur who is dating the picture and not the LA Times.

In fact I complained to them about it in the comments and explained the mistake and they replaced it with a different picture, but again with a wrong date. The picture currently displayed is the replacement.

The latest LA Times articles simply refer to these photos as photos from This is it.

 

[shelly_webster]

You won’t believe it but I have formed a similar impression too. As regards Lloyds I've just answered you in an earlier reply. The rest of the information was not new to me (but thanks anyway). I studied it long ago.



But why should I believe AEG and not the version of Michael Jackson’s mother?? Your choice of AEG over Katherine betrays your own preferences.



You yourself are calling on me to be unbiased towards AEG. If you keep to the position of total neutrality why don’t you remind each and everybody here that they should be unbiased towards Katherine too?

And I am expressing my opinion of AEG based on extensive studies of the case, so why does almost everyone here reprimand me for my research instead of looking into these facts?

Not a single person here has said to me yet that 50 concerts non-agreed with Michael (which are not even in that contract) are an outrage. It really does create the impression that no one cares. But Katherine Jackson DOES care and wants answers to her legitimate questions.

And I am not even saying that if Michael heard what is being said about his mother here he would not believe that these are his fans.



I don’t believe in them either, but when a criminal trial is impossible this is the only chance Katherine has. She would have gladly had a criminal case against AEG but the legal system decided long ago that it did not have any questions to them.

Not a single significant question about AEG, Tohme and how the AEG deal started at all (and it started with Tom Barrack and the Neverland agreement) was allowed during Murray’s trial – all of them were “irrelevant”. Even questions whether Randy Phillips knew Tohme before that deal were objected to. So this trial is the only chance to learn at least something. Not only Katherine wants to know – many of us do.



You are talking of propofol during other tours as if it is an established fact which betrays some preferences and preconceived notions again. However even if we assume that this was the case it does not mean that Propofol was a must in this particular case. There was a time (1993) when Michael was treated for Demerol addiction imposed on him by irresponsible doctors but there was no trace of Demerol found in Michael’s body in 2009, so what do the Demerol events of 1993 have to do with 2009? And the same goes for Propofol.

Why do you prefer general talk about the stress during the previous tours to the concrete talk about these particular 50 shows? Michael said it himself – he did not want 50, they were imposed on him, they were not even in the contract and the schedule was not what he ever expected, so why do you disbelieve that Michael was under the immense stress due to all that? Plus the stress of an insult from AEG who totally disregarded his wishes?

In fact Randy Phillips introduced Tohme as Michael’s manager in June 2009 when Michael had fired him in March. This was total abuse of power on the part of AEG and the demonstration of grave disrespect towards Michael. Michael was extremely intimidated by those instances. This was done in public, in full view of everyone.



It is not the Jacksons who are claiming it in their books. It was Michael Jackson himself who said it on every occasion he had. As regards the world tour there was nothing concrete about it. Just the idea.



The “other member” mentioned is Shelly who has been expressing pro-AEG views in my blog since times immemorial (and we had several conflicts over it). She still has full access to my blog and the fact that she can see what I write there is the best proof of the openness policy I pursue.

In that text I specifically did not mention a single name or even the name of the forum in order not to insult anyone. If you recognized yourself among “the brainwashed”, “those knowing what they are doing” or even “AEG collaborators”, it is your choice, not mine.

I reserve for myself the right to express (in my blog) my views about what is going on in the fan base as regards the AEG trial and will continue to do it in the general form as long as I am given a chance to express my views here.

You, Shelly or anyone at all can always come to my blog and check up.



What are you talking of? I did consider it and we had a very fruitful discussion with some 10 or more messages exchanged. You did not answer the last one:

http://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2012/03/03/branca-aeg-and-karen-faye/comment-page-1/#comment-22769




My blog is open to all except ped-les. Relaxing has never been an option since the blog started - we are always attacked by various anti-Michael groups. Grabbing passwords is a big issue at the moment and mostly concerns the current problem of one reader whose computer “goes crazy” as she says when she tries to see the blog.

Quite by coincidence this started together with the beginning of the AEG trial. I assumed that AEG (not you) was trying to hack my blog and the assumption was based on the realization that AEG is not happy with my activities. Not that I am someone important but AEG sympathizers do monitor the blog as the example of Shelly shows.

Thank you very much for the summaries. They are always very professional.



Hello Shelly. The answer is in the text you yourself quoted – I came here for the latest news, and it seems that I got it:

"I won’t tell you what particular forum it is, but it is a well-respected MJ forum which is used by many of us as a reliable source of information (this is why I went there).



Unfortunately this was the routine of Michael Jackson’s life and since Michael knew he had never signed any papers with AllGoodEntertainment there was nothing to worry about there. This for sure was no reason for him not to sleep at night, while having to do a show every other day (as AEG and Tohme arranged it) was.

It is important to note that there was absolutely no objective need to arrange the shows in that particular way. When Barbara Streizand was doing her shows on O2 Arena the span between the shows was 3 and sometimes even 4 days.

P.S. And thank you for the chance to post without me having to wait now. It is a decided improvement from the previous time.

You knew full well what that forum was way before you started posted here and your first post was to attack everybody else here.

As for your openess, yes you do let people read your blog, but you attack people each time they don't agree with you.
By the way nobody called the Jacksons the devil here, like you do with AEG.

 

[helena1247]

Gotta say i have sympathy for your view. I'm one of those who is dead against this case being brought to trial and have no time for the jacksons in general, but i've been really surprised at how posters have been so defensive of aeg. Fans on here all pay lip service to how they know aeg is a ruthless, greedy company ready to do anything to protect themselves from the claims, but when anything dubious comes up, aeg tend to get defended and attempts made to explain it away and the benefit of the doubt always given to them. I've found it odd, you can be against the jacksons lawsuit but i don't see how that translates automatically into defending aeg.

Thank you for sympathizing with my views - it is so rare a thing here. I am afraid that four years after Michael's death we have somewhat lost touch with the often miserable way Michael felt at the time due to AEG's pressure. Here is Talitha's account of what Michael told her and the other fans on May 29.

Michael just uttered a couple of truthful words but it resulted in a huge scandal in the press (Randy Phillips refuted it saying that Michael was "thrilled" to do 50 shows). Essentially the same scandal is taking place now, but is it reason enough not to tell the truth about AEG's treatment of Michael?


"They did the schedule wrong"

The first indication I got that he wasn’t entirely happy with the tour was on 29 May, which was his last day of rehearsal at CenterStaging. He spoke with a European fan who told him that we were unable to buy tickets to all the This Is It shows, firstly because everyone was limited to buying only four tickets per credit card and also because all the best tickets had been sold to a secondary ticketing site called Viagogo, which was selling them for hundreds or even thousands of pounds.

Normally the biggest fans are at the front because they arrive first and wait the longest, not because they fork out the most money. But the only tickets we could buy at face value, of £50 to £75, were for seats that were the furthest from the stage. (Note that artists usually get a percentage of the FACE VALUE of tickets sold so Michael might have gotten £20 for a ticket that sold for £1,000!)

After speaking with this fan about the tickets, Michael called the other nine of us into the studio. This is the conversation that took place, as I wrote it down that evening:

MJ: I love you, I love you, I love you. I wanted to tell you that I didn’t know that the concerts were seated. I didn’t know about that and I’m going to do something about it. They did that without my consent. They just did it for obvious reasons.

All of us: To make money, we know. We know it’s not your fault.

Jill: We know how complex this is and how many people are involved.

MJ: They did the schedule wrong too. It was supposed to be show, day off, show, day off, show, day off.

Jill: We are worried we won’t be able to keep up with you.

MJ: (laughs) I put everything I have into the shows. I work so hard. But I’m only one person. There is only so much I can do. (sounding emotional)

Me: Michael, please don’t push yourself too hard. Please look after your health. You are more important than anything. You don’t have to do all 50 shows. If it’s too much, just cancel them. Don’t let anyone pressure you into doing anything you don’t want to do. Only do what you want to do. It’s YOU who we love.

MJ: Oh thank you, you’re so sweet, thank you. Bless you all. I also wanted to say that I’m sorry that we don’t put the window down sometimes but it’s for security reasons. I know you all wait for me and I love you so much.

All of us: Don’t worry, we understand Michael. We love you. We love you more.

MJ: Thank you for your love and thank you for your loyalty.

He clasped his hands together, bowed his head, and stood there in silence for a while. We could feel his energy reaching out towards us, filling the room.

Unfortunately someone betrayed Michael by selling him out to a British tabloid, which reported some of the things he had said to us (and I believe to this other fan) the next day. AEG were quick to issue a statement denying the validity of the story.

http://www.michaeljacksonthelastangel.com/michael-jackson-this-is-it.html

Talitha is sorry that this information became known to the press, but it turned into a blessing - now we know what Michael was thinking at the time and how he felt.

 

[helena1247]

Re: [General Discussion] AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine's lawsu

You knew full well what that forum was way before you started posted here and your first post was to attack everybody else here.

This is what I blurted out when I read page after page and finally lost patience. It was my spontaneous reaction to seeing people suggesting better strategies for AEG and hoping that they win from Michael's mother. Is this what you call an attack?

I can't believe what I see here. Michael Jackson's "fans" are advising AEG on how to form their strategy to win from his mother? Do you understand what you are doing here at all?

As for your openess, yes you do let people read your blog, but you attack people each time they don't agree with you. By the way nobody called the Jacksons the devil here, like you do with AEG.

I called AEG's intentions devilish, but never called them a dev-l simply because I try to avoid this word. As to "attacking" people - no, I do not fight people, I fight ideas. The reason for it is because same as Michael I think that every person has something good within himself and it is perfectly in his power to change. This is actually what I count on by all my writing.

You yourself will not be able to provide a single instance of me calling you names except that I called you an AEG agent.

 

[Tygger]

In my mind it is quite feasible that only Michael and his personal doctor knew exactly what medications he was being administered. And that's my point, I'm not saying that KJ should have know, I'm saying that I feel it is highly possible that neither KJ not AEG actually knew how Murray was treating Michael.

I disagree. It is not what Dr. Finkelstein stated in his deposition. Michael’s mother would not need to know what was needed to help her son perform but a person in a specified, professional capacity to Michael (like Gongaware and tour doctors) would. She was there on a personal support basis, not professional.

Shelley Webster, what is the correct protocol for grieving? No two people grieve the same. I am not aware of every instance a Jackson family member was paid to discuss their grief minus two siblings penning books. However, I also saw many others unrelated to Michael do the same. Regardless, the family cannot control others reactions to them and I personally do not expect them to. It is the same way you cannot control my reaction to your post and you should not be expected to control my reaction.

Gerryevans, Shelley Webster, it remains to be seen if this trial will change future dealings between music executives who have historically supplied artist with any number of requests to ensure the artist performs.

 

[helena1247]

My issue is whether mj agreed to the extra 19 shows that got anounced. will we ever know i dunno? to me that is the only issue of contention.

But aren't these well-known Michael's words enough for you to make sure that he never agreed?

• I don’t know how I’m going to do 50 shows. I’m not a big eater – I need to put some weight on. I’m really angry with them booking me up to do 50 shows. I only wanted to do 10, and take the tour around the world to other cities, not 50 in one place. I went to bed knowing I sold 10 dates, and woke up to the news I was booked to do 50.”

 

[LastTear]

I disagree. It is not what Dr. Finkelstein stated in his deposition. Michael’s mother would not need to know what was needed to help her son perform but a person in a professional capacity to Michael (like Gongaware and tour doctors) would. She was there on a personal support basis, not professional.

Shelley Webster, what is the correct protocol for grieving? No two people grieve the same. I am not aware of every instance a Jackson family member was paid to discuss their grief minus two siblings penning books. However, I also saw many others unrelated to Michael do the same. Regardless, the family cannot control others reactions to them and I personally do not expect them to. It is the same way you cannot control my reaction to your post and you should not be expected to control my reaction.

Gerryevans, Shelley Webster, it remains to be seen if this trial will change future dealings between music executives who have historically supplied artist with any number of requests to ensure the artist performs.

You are talking about doctor/patient privilege, as far as we know Murray did not report to AEG exactly what he was treating with.

***************

It's going to be interesting how much evidence the judge allows for this trial given the only remaining charge.

 

[passy001]

But why should I believe AEG and not the version of Michael Jackson’s mother?? Your choice of AEG over Katherine betrays your own preferences.

This is just silly. The evidence (video tapes and deposition transcript) presented by AEG to the judge clearly refutes those malicious allegations. those video tapes and transcript show how courteously and professionally AEG handled prince deposition.

This is just another example of mindless following by some fans who will continue to deny hard facts even in black and white.
in order to win this case, KJ is going to have to prove her allegations. so telling the jury "I'm MJ mother" won't cut it. the jury expects irrefutable facts not fantasies.

 

[shelly_webster]

I disagree. It is not what Dr. Finkelstein stated in his deposition. Michael’s mother would not need to know what was needed to help her son perform but a person in a specified, professional capacity to Michael (like Gongaware and tour doctors) would. She was there on a personal support basis, not professional.

Shelley Webster, what is the correct protocol for grieving? No two people grieve the same. I am not aware of every instance a Jackson family member was paid to discuss their grief minus two siblings penning books. However, I also saw many others unrelated to Michael do the same. Regardless, the family cannot control others reactions to them and I personally do not expect them to. It is the same way you cannot control my reaction to your post and you should not be expected to control my reaction.

Gerryevans, Shelley Webster, it remains to be seen if this trial will change future dealings between music executives who have historically supplied artist with any number of requests to ensure the artist performs.

No matter how people griev it never implies selling stuff about your dead family member. Yes, other people did the same thing, but who were they: Klein, Pfeiffer, etc.

Do you really believe those people were grieving?