Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

[ivy]

I'm thinking Murray is different because of the nature of what he does.

testimony showed that Murray is the only one that required a contract signed by Michael and stated he was wanted by Michael.

 

[xthunderx2]

VERY curious to see what Frank's Dileo's e-mails are going to show. I didn't trust Frank...and if those e-mails show what I think they will...then everything I ever thought about him will be confirmed. If I am wrong then I will admit it.

 

[LastTear]

^^^^ I'm curious to know why you don't trust Frank? Because of Freidman maybe?

 

[MJ*PP]

^Was about to ask. Wonder whats going through your mind about Dileo?

 

[Victory22]

Really? Is that what Michael had become? Had he really got to the stage that he, Michael Jackson' had to bow down and agree to whatever demands his concert promoter dictates. Oh come on people, listening to the Jacksons make Michael sound like some old has been, who was grateful for the gig!

Of course Michael had his problems but I don't think he was this pathetic individual who was powerless to say no, that the Jacksons are trying to portray.

If Michael had been this helpless and desperate to work he would have agreed to go to work with his brothers, Janet and Rowe.

 

[Ashtanga]

Los Angeles (CNN).. is reporting Dileo's E-mails has been found, the Ohio Court has ordered Dileo's Estate to turn over the Lap Top and the Emails to the Jackson Lawyers.

And here we go.... *big sigh*

 

[Mechi]

VERY curious to see what Frank's Dileo's e-mails are going to show. I didn't trust Frank...and if those e-mails show what I think they will...then everything I ever thought about him will be confirmed. If I am wrong then I will admit it.

agree with you! very very curious here too!

 

[Tygger]

Where did you see this ?

http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...son-vs-AEG-Live-Daily-Trial-Testimony-Summary

 

[bouee]

http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...son-vs-AEG-Live-Daily-Trial-Testimony-Summary

I'm sorry, I can't find it. All I can find is actually the opposite ?? :

Panish asked Hollander if people worked for AEG without fully executed contracts. She said yes, they may start work in general terms. Standard company police is that no payments are made without fully executed contract, Hollander said. The contract could get executed later. (ABC7)

from this post : http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...mony-Summary?p=3825531&viewfull=1#post3825531

 

[soulmum]

I always trusted Frank, just my own gut feeling. Hoping the emails don't show my trust to be misplaced.

 

[bouee]

I'm thinking Murray is different because of the nature of what he does.

testimony showed that Murray is the only one that required a contract signed by Michael and stated he was wanted by Michael.

It would have been easier then for AEG to give Michael a cash avance equivalent to Murray's salary and let Michael deal with the "doctor". Maybe they just didn't think about it, or could there be a reason for that ?

Were Michael's personal employees (like Kai Chase, Houskeepers, security, nanny.) also employed by AEG ?

 

[Bubs]

It would have been easier then for AEG to give Michael a cash avance equivalent to Murray's salary and let Michael deal with the "doctor". Maybe they just didn't think about it, or could there be a reason for that ?

Were Michael's personal employees (like Kai Chase, Houskeepers, security, nanny.) also employed by AEG ?

I think they were MJ's staff and he paid to them, for example Kai Chase put in creditors claim after Michael passed.
This is from Hollander's testimony:
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 1h
MJ: Pays for additional furniture, staffing, security, nanny, food.

 

[Diplomate]

Jackson lawyers:

Brian Panish, Kevin Boyle, Robert Glassman , Jenny Farrell, Deborah Chang from Panish, Shea & Boyle LLP
Michael Koskoff , Bill Bloss from Koskoff & Koskoff
Perry Sanders from Sanders Law Firm LLC
Sandy Ribera from Ribera Law Firm
K.C. Maxwell from Maxwell Law Office

AEG lawyers

Marvin Putnam, Sabrina Strong, Jessica Stebbins Bina, Kathryn Cahan from O'Melveny & Myers LLP

10 lawyers for the Jack$on$, lol , normal they asked for $40billions, they need to receive their salary, and if I'm right in these stupid civil law suits in USA, lawyers have a percentage of the money that jurors give to the plaintiffs.

Everybody want a part of the MJ's cake.

 

[bouee]

I think they were MJ's staff and he paid to them, for example Kai Chase put in creditors claim after Michael passed.
This is from Hollander's testimony:
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 1h
MJ: Pays for additional furniture, staffing, security, nanny, food.

Thanks. I see that as a potiential argument for the Jacksons : a doctor could / should have been considered a personal employee, at least pre tour, since he was supposed to take care of Michael only . Especially considering Mr Homs' desposition, where he said doctors on tour were not that usual.

 

[ivy]

AEG execs face questions about Michael Jackson's death
By Alan Duke, CNN
updated 6:30 AM EDT, Mon May 20, 2013
The death in 2009 of superstar Michael Jackson, who died of cardiac arrest at the age of 50, sent shockwaves around the world.
HIDE CAPTION
Michael Jackson, King of Pop

>>
STORY HIGHLIGHTS
AEG Live's top lawyer will testify as trial's 4th week begins
Jackson lawyer will question AEG Live general counsel about negotiations with Dr. Murray
AEG Live's controller confirms the company budgeted $1.5 million to pay for Michael Jackson's doctor
An AEG expert testifies the promoter should have seen "a red flag" when Murray asked for $5 million
Los Angeles (CNN) -- AEG Live filed an insurance claim to recover losses from Michael Jackson's death the same day he died, according to a lawyer for Jackson's family.
That revelation may not relate to the heart of the wrongful death lawsuit against Michael Jackson's last concert promoter, but Jackson lawyers hope it could sway jurors to see AEG Live executives as motivated by money over the pop icon's needs.
It is one of many points Jackson lawyers will try to make Monday when they call AEG Live's top lawyer to the witness stand as the trial's fourth week begins in a Los Angeles courtroom.
Jackson's mother and three children contend AEG Live is liable in the singer's death because its executives negligently hired, retained or supervised Dr. Conrad Murray, who was convicted of involuntary manslaughter.
Who's who in Jackson trial
Conrad Murray maintains his innocence Jackson's doctor sings to Anderson Cooper Van Halen on Michael Jackson: Sweet guy
The promoters ignored a series of red flags that should have warned them Jackson was in danger as he was pressured to get ready for his comeback concerts, the Jackson lawsuit claims.
AEG Live lawyers counter that it was Jackson who chose, hired and supervised Murray, and that he was responsible for his own bad decisions. Its executives could not be expected to know Murray was using the surgical anesthetic propofol, the drug the coroner ruled killed him, to treat his insomnia, they argue.
Jackson lead lawyer Brian Panish will question AEG Live general counsel Shawn Trell about his company's negotiations with Murray to be Jackson's personal physician for his "This Is It" shows in London.
The doctor signed the contract prepared by AEG lawyers and sent it back to the company a day before Jackson's death. The company argues it was not an executed contract because their executives and Michael Jackson never signed it.
The Jackson lawyers argue that e-mails, budget documents and the fact that the doctor was already working for two months showed a binding agreement between AEG and Murray.
Panish, speaking outside of the courtroom Friday, said he would also ask Trell about AEG's insurance claim, which he said his team recently discovered was filed with Lloyds of London on June 25, 2009, hours after Jackson was pronounced dead at UCLA Medical Center.
A Lloyds of London underwriter later sued AEG, claiming the company failed to disclose information about the pop star's health and drug use. AEG dropped its claim for a $17.5 million insurance policy last year.
Monday's court will start with AEG Live controller Julie Hollander completing her testimony about the company's budgeting, which she acknowledged included $1.5 million approved to pay Murray. The doctor's costs were listed as production costs, expenses that AEG is responsible for paying, and not as an advance, which Jackson would ultimately be responsible for giving back to the company, she testified.
The controller's testimony appears to contradict the argument AEG lead lawyer Marvin Putnam made in a CNN interview days before the trial began.
AEG Live's role with Murray was only to "forward" money owed to him by Jackson, just as a patient would use their "MasterCard," Putnam said. "If you go to your doctor and you pay with a credit card, obviously MasterCard in that instance, depending on your credit card, is providing the money to that doctor for services until you pay it back. Now, are you telling them MasterCard in some measure in that instance, did MasterCard hire the doctor or did you? Well, clearly you did. I think the analogy works in this instance."
Jackson lawyers played video testimony of one of AEG's own expert witnesses Friday -- 25-year veteran tour manager Marty Hom.
The opinion Hom submitted for AEG concluded he saw no red flags that should have alerted the promoter that something was wrong with Murray.
He was asked if AEG Live should have realized something was wrong when Murray initially asked for $5 million a year to work as Jackson's personal physician. "That raised a red flag because of the enormous sum of money," Hom testified.
Hom acknowledged he had not seen many of the documents and depositions in the case, and AEG was considering him for a job as the Rollings Stones tour manager at the same time he was asked to testify.

 

[Bubs]

"He was asked if AEG Live should have realized something was wrong when Murray initially asked for $5 million a year to work as Jackson's personal physician. "That raised a red flag because of the enormous sum of money," Hom testified."

Gongaware testified CM trial:
Gongaware said that in May Michael told him to hire a personal physician, Dr. Murray, in May. Gongaware called Murray. Murray told him that he had 4 practices that he needed to close and lay off people and asked $5 Million a year to do it. Gongaware told him it would never happen and ended the negotiations. Gongaware believed they could get a more reasonable priced doctor in London. Michael said they needed to look after "the machine" (his body) and wanted Murray.

- Gongaware received a call from Michael Amir Williams who said that Michael wanted him to hire Dr. Murray. Gongaware heard on the background Michael saying “offer him 150”. He called Dr. Murray again and said that he was authorized to offer him $150,000 a month. Murray accepted.


To be honest, what AEG could have done differently given circumstances?
Order MJ not to take CM , and what would have Michael told to AEG then?
He possibly could have told AEG the deal is off, and have gone to other concert promoter, but CM still would have been there giving propofol for Michael. No matter who was the concert promoter, the end result would have been the same as long as Michael wanted CM.

 

[shades]

Other than the AEG emails, I didn't see much of the evidence that directly support Katherine Jackson's case. I think Most of the Jacksons witnesses testimony are aimed to reflect badly on AEG and tried to put them in negative light. So when people say AEG has no benefit from wade Robson's latest and right timing accusation, that's just wrong ( let me clear, I know there is no evidence saying AEG behind that.) but i wont deny AEG definitely benefit from inside and outside of the court. I am sure they care about the outcome of the case, not from money, they have too much, what they cared is their public image. In a lot of civil cases, the jury just reward the 'victim' they have sympathy with.

What I think is interesting on this board and forums is that we overfocus on the Jackson family and underfocus on a billion dollar corporation as AEG. They have a lot to gain with these new allegations and the timing is suspicious at least. What I read in the court documents and eye witness acc. is how AEG pressured MJ beyond boundaries in their so-called "tough love" and ignored red flags and warning signs along the way. Their behaviour has been borderline negligent and shows what pressure MJ was under. Of course Murray is the one directly to blame for MJ's death. But the pressures around it def. had a strengthening effect. Thinking that these new allegations have nothing to do with this court case is naieve at best and shows little insight on how a multi million corporation thinks and works; how showbizz actually operates. It is a dirty business. (Advance payments are common and making a star depended on the corporation is also common.) It seems to me that contract MJ was under, was beyond reasonable and stiffening. Don't forget that he had many debts and lots of responsibilities. All these are contributive factors. And I think that there was no "love" whatsoever in their "tough love"; only dollar signs.

Do not only read what is said. Do also read between the lines.

 

[bouee]

I was looking for the AEG/Michael contract, but found this instead (AEG/Murray contract) I'll quote the post, since it can be helpful at some points during this trial.

it's not the latest one, since it still says "perform the services requested by producer" and we know it was changed to "artist". Since it's not the latest one, I hesitated a little before posting it here. So if you think it's more confusing than helpful, let me know, I'll delete my post.

More: http://muzikfactorytwo.blogspot.com/2011/07/conrad-murray-aeg-conract.html


...

 

[bouee]

Panish shows a pre-production budget vs what was paid. Dr. Murray still appears budgeted on 7/1/09 for $300,000. Hollander said she did not see a contract with Dr. Murray signed by AEG. Panish: If the $300,000 was supposed to be advance for MJ to be repaid, it would be under category "Artist's Advances". Hollander agreed. (ABc7) There was $300k listed for Murray under “preproduction costs” in “This Is It” budgets. It wasn't listed under terms MJ was supposed to pay. (AP)

Hollander explained what advance meant, it was like cash advance and, depending on the contract, it would be paid back by the artist. Hollander testified that MJ was responsible for 100% of the production costs should the concert not go forward. But if the tour went forward, MJ was responsible for repayment of 95% of the costs and AEG would pay 5%. (ABC7)

from this post : http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...mony-Summary?p=3825531&viewfull=1#post3825531

So had MJ survived, AEG would have paid 5% of Murray's salary ? if Murray's salary was $1.5 million, AEG's share would have been $75 000.

On a different subject, that also explains why tour cost variations could influence AEG's profits.

 

[Big Apple2]

I'm thinking Murray is different because of the nature of what he does.

testimony showed that Murray is the only one that required a contract signed by Michael and stated he was wanted by Michael.

Oh, that's interesting. I had never heard that before.

I mean, Karen Faye said the Michael ASKED her to be part of the tour. Does the above mean that Michael did not have to sign Ms. Faye's contract, along with AEG?

 

[Big Apple2]

I was looking for the AEG/Michael contract, but found this instead (AEG/Murray contract) I'll quote the post, since it can be helpful at some points during this trial.

it's not the latest one, since it still says "perform the services requested by producer" and we know it was changed to "artist". Since it's not the latest one, I hesitated a little before posting it here. So if you think it's more confusing than helpful, let me know, I'll delete my post.

Do you also have the SIGNATURE portion of that draft contract available for posting?

If so, can you please post it? I'd like to see the wording of the signature line. Thanks.

 

[bouee]

Do you also have the SIGNATURE portion of that draft contract available for posting?

If so, can you please post it? I'd like to see the wording of the signature line. Thanks.

I have edited my post, i hadn't quoted the whole post.

 

[Big Apple2]

I have edited my post, i hadn't quoted the whole post.

Thank you bouee, I appreciate you taking the time to do that.

The wording appears to be very specific. I mean, even if Mother's side is able to prove that the contract was in effect, even though it was never COMPLETELY signed, those words are very striking and very to the point as to who would be paying whom, in my opinion.

I'll use Ms. Faye as an example. She was asked by Michael to be part of the show, was the wording at the bottom of her contract the same as Murray's? Same goes for Travis Payne and anybody else Michael personally asked to be part of his concert dates.

If those words only appear at the bottom of Murray's contract, then it's very telling, that SOMEBODY was trying to make it clear why and how Murray came to be. Just a thought.

 

[ivy]

I'm going to add some stuff to the CNN story

Los Angeles (CNN) -- AEG Live filed an insurance claim to recover losses from Michael Jackson's death the same day he died, according to a lawyer for Jackson's family.

Lloyd's complaint file says the insurance claim was submitted on July 1, 2009.

Monday's court will start with AEG Live controller Julie Hollander completing her testimony about the company's budgeting, which she acknowledged included $1.5 million approved to pay Murray. The doctor's costs were listed as production costs, expenses that AEG is responsible for paying, and not as an advance, which Jackson would ultimately be responsible for giving back to the company, she testified.

If you look to the summary, you will see that she also testified that the production costs were Michael's responsibility. Michael was going to pay 100% of the production costs if the show didn't happen and will pay 95% of the production costs if the shows happened.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

What I think is interesting on this board and forums is that we overfocus on the Jackson family and underfocus on a billion dollar corporation as AEG. They have a lot to gain with these new allegations and the timing is suspicious at least. Thinking that these new allegations have nothing to do with this court case is naieve at best and shows little insight on how a multi million corporation thinks and works; how showbizz actually operates. It is a dirty business.

I'm curious about what AEG is gaining from the new allegations, can you explain? The fact is the jury is sworn in and not supposed to pay attention to the media and therefore they won't be hearing or considering these allegation unless they are introduced to evidence in the trial - and there's no attempt to do so. So I'm not sure what AEG is allegedly gaining from them as far as the trial goes?

The new accusations are certainly a distraction for the fans but not necessarily makes a difference for the general public. For example I can tell you that my co workers cannot care less about both the allegations and the civil trial.

 

[ivy]

Anthony McCartney @mccartneyAP
Before jury came in judge admonished court watchers to not approach jurors in the case.

Anthony McCartney @mccartneyAP
Apparently someone (person wasn’t identified) spoke with a juror, which is a big no-no. Could lead to a mistrial.

 

[bouee]

court watchers are people from the public, right ?

 

[ivy]

court watchers are people from the public, right ?

media, fans, public, law students...

 

[bouee]

can't the judge just replace this juror to avoid mistrial ?

 

[ivy]

can't the judge just replace this juror to avoid mistrial ?

oh it's not a certain mistrial. it's a future possibility if it continues.

as far as I can see judge just gave a warning telling people stop doing it.


Anthony McCartney @mccartneyAP
.@SpeechlessMJJ16 @Ivy_4MJ For now the judge has told audience and jury to not talk to each other. If it happens again, could be trouble.

 

[goldiee]

The jury is not supposed to be looking at media but in this information age of cell phones, tv, radios, ipads, email, facebook, twitter, instagram, its a hope they are doing the right thing. AEG could have been hoping for that fact and thinking tarnishing Michael's reputation would make them less likely to want to give a molester's family money. Or if they're really stupid, they could think the Jackson family cares about Michael's reputation and would maybe back down which they don't and we all know they won't. All in all, AEG handled this whole thing dumbly.