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Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

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bouee said:
They were intending to pay Murray...Michael was expecting them to.
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Ah, but that's not what you said.

You said "AEG paid Conrad Murray." The waters are muddy enough, without us posting FALSE information.

No offense, I enjoy reading your post and I appreciate your passion, but let's try and stay focused on the truth as we know it. Smooches!!!!!
 
Mneme said:
@bouee
Putnam really said this?
I mean, that is not possible. Debbie was pregnant with Prince.

Debbie was with Dr. Klein for a time (one leg perhaps?) on the Dangerous-Tour.
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yes, that's right, Karen said debbie was on Dangerous tour. i had forgotten about that. Was Klein there too ?

@last tear : my brain is melting down too...I just had a case of "I don't remember".... :black_eye: :bugeyed
 
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Big Apple2 said:
Ah, but that's not what you said.

You said "AEG paid Conrad Murray." The waters are muddy enough, without us posting FALSE information.

No offense, I enjoy reading your post and I appreciate your passion, but let's try and stay focused on the truth as we know it. Smooches!!!!!
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Well, IMO it's not that completely false, because Michael's death is the reason why they refused to pay...

Ok, they "budgeted" Murray. :) :cheeky:

Oh and by the way, there's a little weird thing in PG's testimony : he said Michael was to pay back 100% of Murray's salary , when I think i Trell said he was included in prod costs. Michael was supposed to pay 95% of production costs, if the tour went along.
 
for some stuff you are actually rushing to conclusions and discussions. I know the trial is moving on a slow pace but when other people testify majority of the stuff will get clearer

@bouee - Murray was listed as "production cost" hence 95 % but they said it was a mistake and he actually should be listed as "artist advance" hence 100%
 
bouee said:
Well, IMO it's not that completely false, because Michael's death is the reason why they refused to pay...
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Actually I thought it was already established that the reason they didn't pay Murray was because the contract was not FULLY executed. Didn't AEG say that they wouldn't pay without a fully exeucted contract in place. I could have sworn I read those words on this board. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.
 
Big Apple2 said:
Actually I thought it was already established that the reason they didn't pay Murray was because the contract was not FULLY executed. Didn't AEG say that they wouldn't pay without a fully exeucted contract in place. I could have sworn I read those words on this board. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.
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you are right. To this point they said they paid people after signed / executed contracts and that's the reason why they did not pay Murray - his contract wasn't signed.
 
Big Apple2 said:
Actually I thought it was already established that the reason they didn't pay Murray was because the contract was not FULLY executed. Didn't AEG say that they wouldn't pay without a fully exeucted contract in place. I could have sworn I read those words on this board. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.
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The contract wasn't fully executed and they never paid Murray so..... yes.

Re Debbie, I guess we have to wait and see. HIStory I think she was there on the first leg and definitely there on the second, I saw her with my own eyes. But Dangerous? I honestly don't know, we will have to wait and see.
 
From Karen's transcript summary, about Debbie & dangerous tour.

It's actually not clear if she says Debbie was there or not.

Putnam asks about Bangkok, reminds Michael had scalp surgery before this time. Karen says before they left for Bangkok the inflation device was removed and the operation to bring his scalp together was done. Michael was having migraine headaches due to the surgery. Also this was the time first molestation accusations become public. It was the same time period. Putnam asks Karen she suspected Michael had a problem with painkillers over the time and she says yes because of patches, vials and syringes she was told about. Putnam again asks who asked Karen to bring the patches and she replies Jim Morey and Debbie Rowe. Putnam asks Karen explain the patches. Karen says she never saw them but she understand them to be like the smoking patches and explained to her that it would relieve Michael’s pain from surgery.
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Off to bed :bye:








:popout:
 
^^^^Goodnight, hope your dreams are sweet and don't involve any player in this trial other than Michael. :)
 
I find it a bit odd that Ms. Rowe would ask Ms. Faye to bring the "patches." Why wouldn't she just carry them herself, I mean, she was a nurse, and probably had more legitimacy for carry such items, unlike the make-up artist. Weird!

Good night sweet bouee, see ya on the flip side!
 
Which one is it?

"Before lunch, Panish asked Gongaware whether “This Is It” was intended to be a multi-city tour. Gongaware said no, it was just going to be the 50 shows at London’s O2 arena. (AP) "The only thing we knew was 50 shows in London. Michael had not agreed to anything else," Gongaware explained. (ABC7)

During Murray’s trial, Gongaware testified that 250k people still wanted tickets. He told that jury “This Is It” would be a multi-city tour. (AP)
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Big Apple2 said:
Actually I thought it was already established that the reason they didn't pay Murray was because the contract was not FULLY executed. Didn't AEG say that they wouldn't pay without a fully exeucted contract in place. I could have sworn I read those words on this board. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.
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What about the contracts of Al (the bassists) and Orianthi? There were something about their contracts not being signed but they got paid or Im I wrong? It was brought up in court. Someone can refresh my memory?
 
Vici said:
What about the contracts of Al (the bassists) and Orianthi? There were something about their contracts not being signed but they got paid or Im I wrong? It was brought up in court. Someone can refresh my memory?
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I'm not sure. First time I'm hearing about Al and Orianthi. Maybe ivy can break it down for us.

ETA: Maybe this contract was different, because it also required Michael's signature.
 
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^^

I found it.

Brian Panish asked Trell if to work for AEG Live a person needed to have an executed contract. "There are employees that are hired by AEG who don't have contracts; they are at will employees," Trell explained.

Panish asked Trell about several people who worked for AEG but didn't have fully executed contracts. Panish: "You told us every person who got paid had fully executed contract, right?" Trell: "That's my impression". Panish said he wants to show all the unexecuted contracts as June 25, 2009. Michael Bearden, Alfred Dunbar, Orianthis Panagaris

Email said: "Contract still under negotiation. Timm gave verbal Termination notice"

Panish:" Did everyone who were paid for TII tour without fully executed contracts?"

Trell: I don't recall
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Big Apple2 said:
ETA: Maybe this contract was different, because it also required Michael's signature.
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Foud more and You are right!! Only Murrays contract required MJs signature.

""Trell said Bearden's contract was eventually fully executed. It was under negotiation when MJ died. No contract needed MJ's consent and signature, except for Dr. Murray, Trell testified.

Bina: Does the fact that you are negotiating means you have a contract? Trell: No, it's just that, negotiation. Bina: Does the agreement have to be in writing to exist? Trell: Yes, of course""



However, even though Murrays contract also required MJs signature, it was shown that both Orianthi, Alfreds and Beardens contract were not fully executed but they still got paid I believe??
 
did Dr Thome have POA power of attorney? i think he signed the 50 shows without asking michael. congaware said he talked to dr thome about 50 shows and he said Michael would do it.

and the emails from aeg sayig they would go on despite mj wishes in terms of other stuff re the show. wtf and all the time they keep on stating the importance of FULLY EXECUTED contracts and yet they wanted to do stuff without mj approving it. how can anyone defend this???

ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 59m
Panish: Do you have anything in writing from Mr. Jackson for costs in excess of $7.5 million?
Trell: No
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ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 1h
Panish showed Trell the contract with MJ and the provisions showed any change needed to be in writing.
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ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 1h
Panish: Do you have anything in writing authorizing you to extend the tour to 50 shows?
Trell: Yes, we have the verbal approval



just verbal approval from who??? NO written approval. shame POT MEET KETTLE
 
Big Apple2 said:
I find it a bit odd that Ms. Rowe would ask Ms. Faye to bring the "patches." Why wouldn't she just carry them herself, I mean, she was a nurse, and probably had more legitimacy for carry such items, unlike the make-up artist. Weird!
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I don't think Debbie was on Dangerous tour.

Vici said:
Which one is it?
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they considered taking it to other cities but the only signed one was for London.
 
Paul Congaware said MJ did not rehearse once for the HIStory tour and he nailed it.

There are so much focus on MJ not rehearsing for This is It when a) MJ was not required to and B) it seems like some ppl from AEG were not worried about it cuz they knew MJ would be amazing when being on stage.

So why all this fuss about him "missing" rehearsals that got everybody worried? It seems as the plaintiff and some witnesses tries to portray MJ missing rehearsals being a sign that something was wrong when it can just have been that MJ wasnt too keen on rehearsing in general.
 
"Michael was obviously NOT OK, as per all those emails." Bouee

Except for Bugzee's email, the other ones come mostly from one date 6/19--I think it's agreed by all he was not ok on that date. The issue is was he ok the other dates? Since he had the best rehearsals the 2 days before we lost him, how can be ok then when not ok before? This is the basic confusion at the core--how was he actually in terms of health? Was he the basketcase at death's door portrayed by Karen and the other lady, was he fine according to people like Stacey Walker, or PG? The autopsy report said he was healthier than other people his age. It's hard to say on one hand you have a hospice patient at end stage and yet when you do the autopsy, he is healthier than average. When MJ said I'm fine--was he lying/covering up or was he telling the truth? If he was so bad off on the 19th, how come he does so well the 24th and 25th?

Vici, I think AEG wanted him at rehearsals b/c he had not toured in a long time and, as opposed to the other tours where he had a sponsor (Pepsi), his own $ involved, or investors, they were fronting him the $. Also the plan was to do a 'making of' movie and they maybe needed the footage?
 
Thrill said:
did Dr Thome have POA power of attorney? i think he signed the 50 shows without asking michael. congaware said he talked to dr thome about 50 shows and he said Michael would do it.

and the emails from aeg sayig they would go on despite mj wishes in terms of other stuff re the show. wtf and all the time they keep on stating the importance of FULLY EXECUTED contracts and yet they wanted to do stuff without mj approving it. how can anyone defend this???

ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 59m
Panish: Do you have anything in writing from Mr. Jackson for costs in excess of $7.5 million?
Trell: No
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 1h
Panish showed Trell the contract with MJ and the provisions showed any change needed to be in writing.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 1h
Panish: Do you have anything in writing authorizing you to extend the tour to 50 shows?
Trell: Yes, we have the verbal approval



just verbal approval from who??? NO written approval. shame POT MEET KETTLE
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Hmm, now that's interesting... when I first heard about the 50 shows (it had been just 10 shows), I thought "hmm, something's a little fishy about that..." now it seems like Tohme was never totally out of the picture. Of course it's an assumption...
 
I don't understand what Duke is saying about this: "Searching for the smoking gun AEG exec confronted at Jackson trial Jackson family wants AEG to pay Van Halen on Michael Jackson: Sweet guy" Can someone explain?
 
Aquarius said:
I don't understand what Duke is saying about this: "Searching for the smoking gun AEG exec confronted at Jackson trial Jackson family wants AEG to pay Van Halen on Michael Jackson: Sweet guy" Can someone explain?
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Those are links to other news stories, when I copied the last article the links to other stories were also copied but only as a text hence those random sentences (actually article titles)

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I think Kenny Ortega wanted Michael to rehearse.


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Michael signed a contract for 31 shows. The contract was never 10 shows. Increase to 50 - addition of 19 shows - was verbally done by Tohme.
 
I think it was important that Michael did rehearse. It had been a long time since he did a tour like performing. Dangerous and History tour were only a couple years apart. I think people were concerned how he was when he was at rehearsals. I feel that if people felt something wasn't right with Michael, they were not suspecting Murray at all. They were looking at other people or things.
 
It rather is important for artist's to rehearse for their shows so the shows are prepared & organized by the time the proper shows begin.
 
Re debbie on dangetous tour: Im sure debbie was more around the history tour than the dangerous tour as she was married to michael
 
He also said he never considered performing background checks on Jackson's makeup artist, a choreographer who worked one-on-one with the singer or Kenny Ortega, the tour's director.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/jun/03/jackson-docs-interactions-with-aeg-live-detailed/

These 3 people that Paul Gongaware mentions knew Michael Jackson for several years, Karen Faye, Kenny Ortega and Travis Payne. Since Michael Jackson recommended them, Paul Gongaware respected Michael Jackson's decision. There just wasn't a need to do a background check, these were Michael Jackson's personal decisions and Paul Gongaware respected this. That's why Paul Gongaware respected Michael Jackson's decision on his personal physician, Conrad Murray. Michael Jackson even trusted his children's health to Conrad Murray.
 
Thrill said:
did Dr Thome have POA power of attorney? i think he signed the 50 shows without asking michael. congaware said he talked to dr thome about 50 shows and he said Michael would do it.

and the emails from aeg sayig they would go on despite mj wishes in terms of other stuff re the show. wtf and all the time they keep on stating the importance of FULLY EXECUTED contracts and yet they wanted to do stuff without mj approving it. how can anyone defend this???
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If you read higher up in the thread ^^ you will see that the e-mail about "going on" was about going on with the announcement in London, without Michael, if Michael did not show up.

About Michael not doing rehearsals for that other tour: I think Michael most likely rehearsed in his home, in a huge space & used mirrors to see his moves. Remember how he rehearsed for the award show in his hotel room in New York? I doubt he would have a tour and not rehearse at all--maybe not with the group, but at least by himself. Actually, isn't there an interview where he mentions practicing by himself and the guy asks him if others were there, and Michael said maybe or I don't know, which was a big joke.
 
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LastTear said:
^^^^Goodnight, hope your dreams are sweet and don't involve any player in this trial other than Michael. :)
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Big Apple2 said:
Good night sweet bouee, see ya on the flip side!
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:)

Gooood Morning ! (trying to not to be too loud for those of you in America )

I hope you had a good night too ! Waking up, breakfast, kitty half purring half asleep next to me on the couch ...perfect morning so far, hope it will last !!
 
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