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Lloyd's refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It/ MJ Estate fights back/ Update: Case Settled

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Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It/ MJ Estate fights back

Petrarose said:
I love the way it starts with that comment on "Gossip." Now let me take my time and read the whole thing.
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Please do. I highly recommend to anyone who enjoys great lawyering.

I had a lot of reservations about the estate chances when this suit was filed. but really after reading this filing by the estate how can anyone possibly still be holding the same stance?

Ultimately it's up to the judge to decide. still, the estate has a good chance here.
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It/ MJ Estate fights back

passy001 said:
Please do. I highly recommend to anyone who enjoys great lawyering.

I had a lot of reservations about the estate chances when this suit was filed. but really after reading this filing by the estate how can anyone possibly still be holding the same stance?

Ultimately it's up to the judge to decide. still, the estate has a good chance here.
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you know I felt Estate's chances are slim in this case. I still don't know if they can win it but it looks like they have a decent argument here.
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It/ MJ Estate fights back

ivy said:
you know I felt Estate's chances are slim in this case. I still don't know if they can win it but it looks like they have a decent argument here.
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I honestly think at this point the estate has a better chance than LLoyd.

LLoyd, just like Sneddon, heavily built their cases on tabloids and gossip. for instance, when LLoyd say MJ was abusing drugs, they are actually implying that MJ was this out of control dude taking illegal drugs for recreational purpose. but that is not true. we heard during the KJ-AEG trial that MJ was undertaking certain medical treatment during which he was taking legal drugs. so his taking of drug was part of his treatment administered by doctors.

Also, based on evidence presented by the estate LLoyd knew about MJ medical conditions and his so called addiction. they can't come now and say they had no knowledge of that.

even better when one of their representative is claiming that he exclusively relied on the report of MJ medical doctor and MJ answers on the medical form, he is lying because as evidence show, he was questioning the medical report and as such was willing to subject MJ to further medical test.

so all in all, LLoyd is facing major credibility issues here that have now been brought to the surface. they are now threatening the estate with embarrassing/damaging medical records. Really at this point the estate does not care anymore simply because most damaging stuff about mj is already out in the open. and bringing more embarrassing is not going to affect MJ image anymore than what is already known.
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It/ MJ Estate fights back

BTW in this case Lloyds is 4 underwriters. 50% Cathedral Capital, 25% Talbot Underwriting and 25% by 2 US companies. The document says Estate has settled with the 2 US companies. If they succeed in summary judgment, they can perhaps settle with the remaining ones.
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It/ MJ Estate fights back

Passy you hit on some points I was looking at. You can see that they had experience with Michael's tours, cancellations, and insuring Michael's tours in the past. They even brought in Dr. Forecast, (which is interesting) to help with that prior claim in terms of understanding Michael's medical conditions and needs. Now they claim they were misled because they relied on a doctor's report, that they did not even believe in. Even though they did not believe the report, they granted an accident policy without having received 5 years medical report. Then, rather than ask questions about the touring history, they asked about the mechanical arm and transportation to the venue. They missed their chance of questioning deeper into such issues and now want to bring them up as though they were misled.

They give no evidence that Michael was unfit to tour when he was examined by Slavit. They can't prove that the propofol was being used when Slavit examined him. It seems for a lot of the arguments they are missing the facts, sort of reminds me of the Panish arguments. Then we have Burns claiming Michael said NO to question 6, when Michael answered Yes.

I wonder what Mr. Burns was expecting the experts to see in terms of Michael's health. I mean the coroner pretty much exposed the condition of the body, so what did Burns feel his experts would expose--deep dark medical abnormalities and conditions?

You know there were some who were saying that the estate should not go after the Lloyds policy because they made money from TII. Such fans should really read page 39^^.

I like the way the estate cleared up the wording on Question 4--you never get these distinctions when you read the summaries of these documents from the media, so thank you Ivy for posting these documents.

By the way it was news to me that the estate had settled with the 2 US companies carrying 25% of the risk. This case is becoming more interesting now that we see the documents.
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It/ MJ Estate fights back

Petrarose said:
By the way it was news to me that the estate had settled with the 2 US companies carrying 25% of the risk. This case is becoming more interesting now that we see the documents.
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I did not know about the settlement either but it is written at page 9 of this document under II. A. Underwriters and Related Witnesses
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It/ MJ Estate fights back

ivy said:
I did not know about the settlement either but it is written at page 9 of this document under II. A. Underwriters and Related Witnesses
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Yes I saw It. I am just saying that before you posted the document, I did not hear about it. I wonder what prompted the US companies to settle? Does it have something to do with their risk being small, the claim is valid?
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It/ MJ Estate fights back

Petrarose said:
Yes I saw It. I am just saying that before you posted the document, I did not hear about it. I wonder what prompted the US companies to settle? Does it have something to do with their risk being small, the claim is valid?
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most probably we would never find out the answers to these questions. most settlements will be confidential. 25% of 17.5 Million is still $4.3 Million. As Estate is pursing the lawsuit I don't think they would settle for nothing so at least a middle of the road settlement - around $2 Million- could be a possibility. But it is all a speculation. I won't personally hold my breath for any settlement details.
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It/ MJ Estate fights back

ivy said:
BTW in this case Lloyds is 4 underwriters. 50% Cathedral Capital, 25% Talbot Underwriting and 25% by 2 US companies. The document says Estate has settled with the 2 US companies. If they succeed in summary judgment, they can perhaps settle with the remaining ones.
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now that is interesting. completely missed that bit. anyway the settlement to some extend exonerates the estate. we are talking about money here and 25% of 17.5m is a lot of money although it might pale to the "purported $1 billion dollars" the estate made already since MJ passing.
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It/ MJ Estate fights back

Petrarose said:
Passy you hit on some points I was looking at. You can see that they had experience with Michael's tours, cancellations, and insuring Michael's tours in the past. They even brought in Dr. Forecast, (which is interesting) to help with that prior claim in terms of understanding Michael's medical conditions and needs. Now they claim they were misled because they relied on a doctor's report, that they did not even believe in. Even though they did not believe the report, they granted an accident policy without having received 5 years medical report. Then, rather than ask questions about the touring history, they asked about the mechanical arm and transportation to the venue. They missed their chance of questioning deeper into such issues and now want to bring them up as though they were misled.

They give no evidence that Michael was unfit to tour when he was examined by Slavit. They can't prove that the propofol was being used when Slavit examined him. It seems for a lot of the arguments they are missing the facts, sort of reminds me of the Panish arguments. Then we have Burns claiming Michael said NO to question 6, when Michael answered Yes.

I wonder what Mr. Burns was expecting the experts to see in terms of Michael's health. I mean the coroner pretty much exposed the condition of the body, so what did Burns feel his experts would expose--deep dark medical abnormalities and conditions?

You know there were some who were saying that the estate should not go after the Lloyds policy because they made money from TII. Such fans should really read page 39^^.

I like the way the estate cleared up the wording on Question 4--you never get these distinctions when you read the summaries of these documents from the media, so thank you Ivy for posting these documents.

By the way it was news to me that the estate had settled with the 2 US companies carrying 25% of the risk. This case is becoming more interesting now that we see the documents.
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Well said.

LLoyd is trying mj by media where tabloids rule supreme. they forget that in the court of law the standards are far higher. it's the same tactic that wade robson is using and many others who have sued mj in the past. however they will fail because mj is no longer here to panic and give in. he left behind a formidable estate with a ruthless and fantastic legal team.
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It/ MJ Estate fights back

^^Yes this strategy based on "we will spill all his medical so you better leave us alone" is common. AEG began their opening statement with the same type of idea. Well, let's see how the judge rules on this one.
 
Mjjjustice project retweeted this

Lawsuit over Michael Jackson insurance settled

By Associated Press, Updated: Wednesday, January 15, 6:25 PM
LOS ANGELES — A lawsuit over the payout of a $17.5 million policy related to Michael Jackson’s planned comeback concerts has been settled, attorneys told a judge on Wednesday.


Lawyers for Certain Underwriters at Lloyd’s of London and Jackson’s estate announced the settlement before a hearing that would have altered what evidence would be presented at trial. Lawyers for the insurer and Jackson’s estate did not know how the judge was planning to rule before announcing they had resolved the case.

Lloyd’s sued Jackson’s estate in 2011 seeking to nullify a non-appearance and concert cancellation policy that it issued roughly two months before Jackson’s death in June 2009. The insurer contended that an examination of Jackson that was required for the policy was not completed and the promoter of the “This Is It” shows did not disclose everything it knew about the singer’s health when it took out the policy.

Howard Weitzman, an attorney for Jackson’s estate and Paul K. Shrieffer, who represented Lloyd’s, declined to offer details about the resolution.

The case, if it had gone to trial, would have put the focus once again on Jackson’s health in the weeks and months before he died.

A trial had been scheduled for Feb. 24.

The insurer had initially sued Jackson’s concert promoter, AEG Live LLC, but the company was later dismissed.

The case was one of several that continue to be heard in Los Angeles courts focusing on Jackson’s life and untimely death. A judge on Monday refused to order a retrial in a lawsuit filed by Jackson’s mother against AEG Live that contended it negligently hired the doctor convicted of killing her son.

The former cardiologist, Conrad Murray, also has an appeal of his involuntary manslaughter convictions pending.

The settlement of Jackson’s estate also remains pending, with claims by the singer’s former manager yet to be ruled upon.


___


Anthony McCartney can be reached at http://twitter.com/mccartneyAP

http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...e7d4e4-7e0c-11e3-97d3-b9925ce2c57b_story.html
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It/ MJ Estate fights back

I thought Lloyd's were going to fight this tooth and nail, maybe they underestimated the Estate and thought better of it! I hope we get to know the details but I guess that's unlikely.
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It/ MJ Estate fights back

Years ago I said I expected an settlement.
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It/ MJ Estate fights back

^^^^ I remember, and you were right.


I must admit I didn't expect the argument the estate provided, it was very clever.
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It/ MJ Estate fights back

^^

Most of us thought Lloyds had a better chance in this trial until we have seen Estate's reply to summary judgment. It might have made it an even position hence prompted settlement from Lloyds perspective. Given Estate's attempts to protect MJ's health history in all of the cases, at least to me it seemed it was highly unlikely that this would go to trial. I did expect a settlement and it happened.
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It/ MJ Estate fights back

I guess it's unlikely we will know the details?
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It/ MJ Estate fights back

LastTear said:
I guess it's unlikely we will know the details?
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I'll check the court system (and it would take several days for it to be added to the system) but yeah most likely it would be confidential.
 
Once again I have to give the Branca and McClain credit the work they did in replying to LOL, IMO was just brilliant
 
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Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It/ MJ Estate fights back

ivy said:
Years ago I said I expected an settlement.
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I think you underestimated the estate. their response to Lloyd motion for summary judgement really forced Lloyd hand. yes, MJ medical records would have been all over the place yet again, but Lloyd practices would have been badly exposed and as a result seriously hurt their businesses.

Lloyd settled the same way the other US underwriters settled with the estate.

I say it's a win for the estate because Lloyd finally acknowledged they owe money to the estate even if it's less than the $17.5m.

As for Lloyd, they will probably breath some relief as this settlement allows them to keep their dirty dealings as secret.

Now I wish we could get some news on the Tohme case. what is going on there?
 
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Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It/ MJ Estate fights back

passy001 said:
I think you underestimated the estate. their response to Lloyd motion for summary judgement really forced Lloyd hand. yes, MJ medical records would have been all over the place yet again, but Lloyd practices would have been badly exposed and as a result seriously hurt their businesses.

Lloyd settled the same way the other US underwriters settled with the estate.

I say it's a win for the estate because Lloyd finally acknowledged they owe money to the estate even if it's less than the $17.5m.

As for Lloyd, they will probably breath some relief as this settlement allows them to keep their dirty dealings as secret.
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you are right. up until we have seen the recent Estate filings I did not give much chance to Estate. After seeing their filings I thought it became a more even situation. However as I said I also did not expect Estate to parade MJ's health history in court.
 
Michael Jackson
Lloyd's of London Pays Big Bucks
In Death Claim

Lloyd's of London has dropped its claim that it doesn't have to honor a huge insurance policy on grounds it was never told Michael Jackson was a drug addict ... and we've learned Lloyd's has now agreed to a payout.

Lloyd's filed a lawsuit claiming it did NOT have to honor the policy it issued to cover losses from the failed "This Is It" tour. Lloyd's felt it had been deceived because no one ever disclosed Michael had serious drug problems.

The case just settled and we know ... Lloyd's has paid something to settle. We're told it's not the full $17.5 mil under the policy. We do not know the amount ... just that it forked over money.

The reason a payout is so important -- Lloyd's essentially folded on its fraud claim.

Read more: http://www.tmz.com#ixzz2qVUC9YUu
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It/ MJ Estate fights back

ivy said:
you are right. up until we have seen the recent Estate filings I did not give much chance to Estate. After seeing their filings I thought it became a more even situation. However as I said I also did not expect Estate to parade MJ's health history in court.
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Of course not, they are not Katherine.
 
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Lloyd’s of London’s settles with Michael Jackson Co.
January 15, 2014 10:15 AM

LOS ANGELES (CNS) – A settlement was announced today in Lloyd’s of London’s suit against the Michael Jackson Co. LLC in which the insurer sued to affirm it was not obligated to pay a $17.5 million tour-cancellation policy triggered by the singer’s death.

Lawyers for both sides told Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Malcolm Mackey they reached a resolution of the dispute shortly before a hearing was scheduled in the case.

“Miracles do happen,” Mackey said. “Fantastic. I think I made a prediction a couple of years ago that the case would settle.”

Lloyd’s attorney Paul Schrieffer said outside the courtroom that he was pleased the case ended amicably after three years of litigation.

Lloyd’s of London filed suit against AEG Live and the Michael Jackson Co. LLC in June 2011. Lloyd’s wanted a judge to declare it was not obligated to pay a $17.5 million insurance claim on grounds that the insurer was not told the singer was taking drugs before he died from an overdose of propofol on June 25, 2009, at age 50.

Both AEG Live and The Michael Jackson Co., which was once owned by the singer and is now part of his estate, were insured by Lloyd’s. AEG Live previously dropped its claim for benefits.
 
Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It/ MJ Estate fights back

LastTear said:
^^^^ I remember, and you were right.


I must admit I didn't expect the argument the estate provided, it was very clever.
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Me too. I wonder if the estate's strong response had something to do with the settlement? I think Lloyd wanted to pay nothing at all, but it seems they had to hand over some money.

Well this is a favorable outcome and I am glad it is over.

Ivy you remember the IRS had included the full 17 million in the tax liability showing that the estate had this as income. The estate had responded that they did not recover the money from Lloyds or words to that effect. Now maybe we can tell how much Lloyds paid out if we see some new millions added to the next accounting?
 
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Re: Lloyd's of London refuse to pay insurance policy for This is It/ MJ Estate fights back

Petrarose said:
Me too. I wonder if the estate's strong response had something to do with the settlement? I think Lloyd wanted to pay nothing at all, but it seems they had to hand over some money.

Well this is a favorable outcome and I glad it is over.
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It's quite safe to assume they paid at least half i.e $8.75m

because Lloyd could not prove that MJ committed fraud when he answered his question on the form. that is why they settle. because in order to do so, they would have to prove that 1) MJ knew that he was on drugs as in illegal drugs when he was filling in the form in April 2009, which is impossible. 2)moreover they would have to prove that MJ was using Propofol in April 2009,which is also impossible.
worse, the estate could easily proven that Lloyd had engaged several times in dodgy insurance practices, even covering those artists (e.g Aerosmith) they knew was on drugs, then undercutting their very own claim that they would not have covered MJ if they knew he was a drug addict.

The Estate settling was pretty much the plan since day one given that they had already settled with two other U.S insurance firms. so settling with Lloyd was just another formality.

Lloyd was acting in bad faith and got caught really badly. They had to give in in the end.
 
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Good news just keep coming
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Next on the line - Tohme
 
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