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Estate, Cascio and Porte Sued Over Three Songs on the "Michael" Album - Vera Senova Class Action

Re: Estate, Cascio & Porte sued - Forensic Analysis says MJ is NOT singing the 3 songs on "MICHAEL"

Birchey said:
This I could answer 100% unfortunately, its because of the screenshots I have from the ProTools sessions, which I got with evidence from my case, which is locked away safely. But I did this very thing with Water, I lined up a screenshot of the "MJ" lead vocals takes and all the harmonized backing vocal parts, and created a scrolling video in time with the music. Good thing is you know exactly which parts Porte is on too, as he is the "Ghost" backing vocalist. There are other backing vocalists named on the tracks too. If its legally allowed I will give this info to the plaintiffs lawyers.
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Birchey, do you still have the posts that you made on this forum right after you, erm, "paid visit" to the Sony servers? Those were public posts on an Internet forum; they're allowed to be reposted, right? I can't find them in the archive of this site though.
 
Re: Estate, Cascio & Porte sued - Forensic Analysis says MJ is NOT singing the 3 songs on "MICHAEL"

kreen said:
Much is made of the fact that Eddie supposedly told people he had lost/destroyed the hard drives with all of the outtakes. Let's assume that he really did say that, and wasn't misunderstood or lying.

Isn't this point moot anyway? Whatever he had when MJ died is on that CD he registered with the Copyrights Office in June 2009.

So either he did delete/destroy a bunch of alternate takes, in which case he did it before MJ died, which means he's telling the truth, as strange as it may seem to us that precious outtakes wouldn't be preserved.

Or he did no such thing, in which case whatever is on that CD in the Washington Copyright Office's vault would bear no resemblance to what ended up on "Michael". So this registration is the key to everything : Eddie basically painted himself in a corner by filing it two days after MJ's death.

So my question is : wouldn't the Estate have checked the contents of that registration as soon as issues were raised? They'd be allowed to anyway, as Michael Jackson is one of the three registrants. In fact, woudln't the Estate be informed of the registration as soon as it was made?
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I think it kinda depends whether they would have checked it straight away, things were hectic at the time. but I agree that copyright claim and maybe some earlier and slightly later ones are key to this whole thing.
 
Re: Estate, Cascio & Porte sued - Forensic Analysis says MJ is NOT singing the 3 songs on "MICHAEL"

kreen said:
Birchey, do you still have the posts that you made on this forum right after you, erm, "paid visit" to the Sony servers? Those were public posts on an Internet forum; they're allowed to be reposted, right? I can't find them in the archive of this site though.
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I don't know if they were removed or not, I can't remember as I wasn't here, but I don't know if staff removed them. Did I post any screenshots then? I vaguely remember, I might of.
 
Re: Estate, Cascio & Porte sued - Forensic Analysis says MJ is NOT singing the 3 songs on "MICHAEL"

Birchey said:
I don't know if they were removed or not, I can't remember as I wasn't here, but I don't know if staff removed them. Did I post any screenshots then? I vaguely remember, I might of.
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Can't you comment on what some people have told me, which is that you thought at first, after your "visit", that there was some actual new MJ vocals on the Cascio tracks after all? I'm not trying to catch you in a contradiction, just honestly asking why you would think that, if you did.
 
Re: Estate, Cascio & Porte sued - Forensic Analysis says MJ is NOT singing the 3 songs on "MICHAEL"

kreen said:
Can't you comment on what some people have told me, which is that you thought at first, after your "visit", that there was some actual new MJ vocals on the Cascio tracks after all? I'm not trying to catch you in a contradiction, just honestly asking why you would think that, if you did.
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It was tricky, figuring out the screenshots to the tracks, my mind fluctuated about the tracks, there was alot of info to process. There were some new possible MJ adlibs I couldn't source, but with Brawley involved he could have anything from Invincible vocally. But I always held a possibility that MJ could have sung some backing vocals, for Porte's album. With Eddie working on it, Dileo managing, it was always a possibility MJ could have laid down something or wrote some lyrics to help his old pals out boosting Porte/Ewings career. It wouldn't be the first time MJ stepped in to record some backing vox for a favour or for fun and its certainly more plausable than him writing and recording 12 songs. Plus people were pushing for NO MJ on the songs, we just needed to concentrate on the lead vocal, and not whats buried in the mix.
 
Re: Estate, Cascio & Porte sued - Forensic Analysis says MJ is NOT singing the 3 songs on "MICHAEL"

kreen said:
Can't you comment on what some people have told me, which is that you thought at first, after your "visit", that there was some actual new MJ vocals on the Cascio tracks after all? I'm not trying to catch you in a contradiction, just honestly asking why you would think that, if you did.
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Birchey said:
It was tricky, figuring out the screenshots to the tracks, my mind fluctuated about the tracks, there was alot of info to process.
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I guess I'm that "some people" kreen is mentioning. That was based on some conversations in which Birchey told me he believed MJ was on back vocals but not on the leads but also believed some words from Soldier Boy to be MJ and Black Widow to be MJ as well. I remember asking how could Black Widow be MJ but others not him. I don't know if Birchey truly believed that or was just pulling my leg. I also have to add that's not necessarily a contradiction as even then Birchey didn't believe majority of the leads to be MJ and everyone can change their minds when presented more information.

But I always held a possibility that MJ could have sung some backing vocals, for Porte's album.
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see at least in the past we shared the same opinion about these songs. I imagine you probably changed your mind in this regard but I still pretty much have the same opinion.
 
Re: Estate, Cascio & Porte sued - Forensic Analysis says MJ is NOT singing the 3 songs on "MICHAEL"

Birchey said:
we just needed to concentrate on the lead vocal, and not whats buried in the mix.
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Exactly! The problem is the lead vocal which is credited to Michael Jackson but it is not. He could have sung some backgrounds for Porte. That is not the question at all.
 
Re: Estate, Cascio & Porte sued - Forensic Analysis says MJ is NOT singing the 3 songs on "MICHAEL"

ivy said:
I guess I'm that "some people" kreen is mentioning. That was based on some conversations in which Birchey told me he believed MJ was on back vocals but not on the leads but also believed some words from Soldier Boy to be MJ and Black Widow to be MJ as well. I remember asking how could Black Widow be MJ but others not him. I don't know if Birchey truly believed that or was just pulling my leg.

see at least in the past we shared the same opinion about these songs. I imagine you probably changed your mind in this regard but I still pretty much have the same opinion.
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Well tbh, its difficult to know how much some of the songs were butchered and exactly what Brawley had used to replace words and sounds etc, like I said he probably has access to vocal takes from invincible etc. As for Backing vocals, I am still open to that Idea and won't put all my eggs in one basket there, the screenshots for KYHU show 4 backing vocals attributed to MJ, these would all be mixed down, with Portes and whoever else is singing. So what if MJ did record a line for one of Portes songs? But Eddie used Jasons to fill the song out, Eddie only need present what MJ could have recorded to slam dunk his case, this is why at the time I was trying to steer people away from saying it wasn't all MJ. As for the lead, at least 95% of it, Jason
 
Re: Estate, Cascio & Porte sued - Forensic Analysis says MJ is NOT singing the 3 songs on "MICHAEL"

Birchey, you said you found 4 backing vocal tracks attributed to MJ for KYHU. Does that mean "the Cascio singer" sang the complete backing vocals four times? Or could it be they had 4 tracks of the Cascio singer singing different parts of the back-up, which were edited into one complete back-up track? Or could it be it's the same vocal, slightly altered four times to provide a lusher, fuller sound?
 
Re: Estate, Cascio & Porte sued - Forensic Analysis says MJ is NOT singing the 3 songs on "MICHAEL"

kreen said:
Birchey, you said you found 4 backing vocal tracks attributed to MJ for KYHU. Does that mean "the Cascio singer" sang the complete backing vocals four times? Or could it be they had 4 tracks of the Cascio singer singing different parts of the back-up, which were edited into one complete back-up track? Or could it be it's the same vocal, slightly altered four times to provide a lusher, fuller sound?
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My bad slight correction, The "MJ" chorus in in 4 parts, the Lead is one of those parts. So thats 3 leads, all overlapping, sung seperatly, no looping of any, all chorus runs are unique. Leaves 3 backing vocals, again each 2 labelled as Background vocals and one labelled as PipeFX xD I am serious, each sung seperatly. I think MJBGV1 is probably most the harmonies on one track, with the second accenting them. the MJpipeFXbgvs are also sung seperatly too, I only have one cropped screenshot on me which I havent studied for a while. Hopefully will review the rest soon and report back.

I can tell you at one point we have MJlead1, MJBGV1, MJBGV2, MJHookLead and MJpipeFXbgvs all happening at the same time, 5 different vocal tracks, with 1 track of Ghost backing vocals.
 
Re: Estate, Cascio & Porte sued - Forensic Analysis says MJ is NOT singing the 3 songs on "MICHAEL"

Birchey said:
My bad slight correction, The "MJ" chorus in in 4 parts, the Lead is one of those parts. So thats 3 leads, all overlapping, sung seperatly, no looping of any, all chorus runs are unique. Leaves 3 backing vocals, again each 2 labelled as Background vocals and one labelled as PipeFX xD I am serious, each sung seperatly. I think MJBGV1 is probably most the harmonies on one track, with the second accenting them. the MJpipeFXbgvs are also sung seperatly too, I only have one cropped screenshot on me which I havent studied for a while. Hopefully will review the rest soon and report back.

I can tell you at one point we have MJlead1, MJBGV1, MJBGV2, MJHookLead and MJpipeFXbgvs all happening at the same time, 5 different vocal tracks, with 1 track of Ghost backing vocals.
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Although maybe KYHU was one of the more "finished" tracks; maybe you didn't find that many "MJ" vocals for the other songs?

You found that on Sony's servers, right? So Stewart Bradley did that editing/vocal manipulation work as an employee of Sony? So that means Sony/the Estate knew the vocals they received from Eddie were mulitple takes/multiple tracks? Doesn't that contradict their assertion that those were "rough vocals" in "demo format"? Wouldn't that right away raise a red flag for them?
 
Re: Estate, Cascio & Porte sued - Forensic Analysis says MJ is NOT singing the 3 songs on "MICHAEL"

Also another note, with everything recorded in stereo you can see that MJbgv1, MJbgv2 and MJPipeFXbgvs have different waveforms in the left and right channels throughout the mix, this kinda confirms those tracks are comps of numerous vocals mixed down into tracks = more than one vocal.
 
Re: Estate, Cascio & Porte sued - Forensic Analysis says MJ is NOT singing the 3 songs on "MICHAEL"

Birchey said:
My bad slight correction, The "MJ" chorus in in 4 parts, the Lead is one of those parts. So thats 3 leads, all overlapping, sung seperatly, no looping of any, all chorus runs are unique. Leaves 3 backing vocals, again each 2 labelled as Background vocals and one labelled as PipeFX xD I am serious, each sung seperatly. I think MJBGV1 is probably most the harmonies on one track, with the second accenting them. the MJpipeFXbgvs are also sung seperatly too, I only have one cropped screenshot on me which I havent studied for a while. Hopefully will review the rest soon and report back.

I can tell you at one point we have MJlead1, MJBGV1, MJBGV2, MJHookLead and MJpipeFXbgvs all happening at the same time, 5 different vocal tracks, with 1 track of Ghost backing vocals.
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Also, you heard all of those multiple takes, you didn't just see their names, right?

How many takes of the Cascio singer did they have for the verses?
 
Re: Estate, Cascio & Porte sued - Forensic Analysis says MJ is NOT singing the 3 songs on "MICHAEL"

kreen said:
Although maybe KYHU was one of the more "finished" tracks; maybe you didn't find that many "MJ" vocals for the other songs?

You found that on Sony's servers, right? So Stewart Bradley did that editing/vocal manipulation work as an employee of Sony? So that means Sony/the Estate knew the vocals they received from Eddie were mulitple takes/multiple tracks? Doesn't that contradict their assertion that those were "rough vocals" in "demo format"? Wouldn't that right away raise a red flag for them?
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I can't remember the other tracks, I will have to look again.

No, the Sony Servers were basically an email client for anyone connected with Sony, radio stations, DJ's, office employees and producers had accounts etc, it was private 1 to 1 messaging. Sony sent out a bunch of links to numerous sites and posted them on Britney Spears facebook etc, say the link was sonymusic.com/123456 you could download that file, but heres how we supposedly "hacked it" we changed the digits at the end to get a new download, you could litterally, start at 1 and work your way up, each download was a suprise we had no way of knowing what we were getting. The servers were even indexed by google, you could litterally google search the servers xD

100's of People were doing this around the world for over a year. Someone in Beijing downloaded over 100,000 files, the Cascio tracks were downloaded by a massive amount of people in the month before us, including Stay, which was downloaded by someone at college in Canada. I was arrested and presented with a piece of paper................12 songs on that paper, it was all about Angelikson shitting themselves to Sony, they didn't give a crap about the real MJ music we got, just them damn tracks.
 
Re: Estate, Cascio & Porte sued - Forensic Analysis says MJ is NOT singing the 3 songs on "MICHAEL"

kreen said:
Also, you heard all of those multiple takes, you didn't just see their names, right?

How many takes of the Cascio singer did they have for the verses?
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I just have protools screenshots, I can only take what I can see, but there are at least 9 full vocal runs on KYHU, thats just completed, compiled runs, no looping, full run throughs of the songs, so unless MJ nailed the song 9 times in a row and was happy, there are no outtakes.
 
Re: Estate, Cascio & Porte sued - Forensic Analysis says MJ is NOT singing the 3 songs on "MICHAEL"

Bearing in mind with the 9 takes, I am only counting 1 different vocal on each background vocals stereo track, so 1 vocal for the left channel and 1 for the right, this isn't usually how it works, it is probably more like 2 for each or even 3.
 
Re: Estate, Cascio & Porte sued - Forensic Analysis says MJ is NOT singing the 3 songs on "MICHAEL"

Birchey said:
I just have protools screenshots, I can only take what I can see, but there are at least 9 full vocal runs on KYHU, thats just completed, compiled runs, no looping, full run throughs of the songs, so unless MJ nailed the song 9 times in a row and was happy, there are no outtakes.
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But you've heard those vocals runs, I mean you listened to them?
 
Re: Estate, Cascio & Porte sued - Forensic Analysis says MJ is NOT singing the 3 songs on "MICHAEL"

kreen said:
But you've heard those vocals runs, I mean you listened to them?
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Only Eddie Cascio, Brawley & Porte listened to them. Cascio sold to Sony mixed down vocals, not separate takes and multitracks. They destroyed everything else before selling the songs.
 
Birchey;4023333 said:
I think it kinda depends whether they would have checked it straight away, things were hectic at the time. but I agree that copyright claim and maybe some earlier and slightly later ones are key to this whole thing.
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2008:

Sintiacutetsdlo-2_zps4baabc73.jpg


If they had vocals from MJ in 2007, why they didn´t registered in 2008?.
 
Re: Estate, Cascio & Porte sued - Forensic Analysis says MJ is NOT singing the 3 songs on "MICHAEL"

kreen said:
But you've heard those vocals runs, I mean you listened to them?
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Nope, I can see them but have not heard them :)
 
Re: Estate, Cascio & Porte sued - Forensic Analysis says MJ is NOT singing the 3 songs on "MICHAEL"

OnirMJ said:
Only Eddie Cascio, Brawley & Porte listened to them. Cascio sold to Sony mixed down vocals, not separate takes and multitracks. They destroyed everything else before selling the songs.
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Ok, I'm lost. I don't understand then what it is that Birchey saw, and how he knows it was "the Cascio singer" singing the chorus 4 times, each time from top to bottom, with each take being a complete, distinct one.

Anybody could explain to me the results of that "visit" in Sony's servers? Explain it to me like you would to a child. ;)
 
Re: Estate, Cascio & Porte sued - Forensic Analysis says MJ is NOT singing the 3 songs on "MICHAEL"

kreen said:
Ok, I'm lost. I don't understand then what it is that Birchey saw, and how he knows it was "the Cascio singer" singing the chorus 4 times, each time from top to bottom, with each take being a complete, distinct one.

Anybody could explain to me the results of that "visit" in Sony's servers? Explain it to me like you would to a child. ;)
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Okay basically when noise is generated, you can view its waveform. Like this for instance, http://www.floom.com/images/waveform_lotos.gif

That sound has its own unique waveform, as would the wave for say one vocal take of the Keep Your head Up Chorus. If that vocal run is then copy and pasted, the resulting waveform would be identical. These are not, which implies it was another vocal.

Now stereo uses 2 channels, for the background vocals, the left and right channels are much different aswell, pointing towards layered, panned vocals. Where are for the leads which would be one voice given a stereo Mic was used they are almost identical.
 
Kapital77;4023410 said:
2008:

Sintiacutetsdlo-2_zps4baabc73.jpg


If they had vocals from MJ in 2007, why they didn´t registered in 2008?.
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It's common for writers/producers/others to register their material years after the fact. MJ himself registered some songs years after he recorded them, and Brad Buxer only registered some MJ songs he did with him after his death.

I guess there was no point in registering vocals that, until MJ died, were never meant to be released anyway. It could be also that registration involved MJ's authorization, which he had not given/been asked for while he was alive.
 
Re: Estate, Cascio & Porte sued - Forensic Analysis says MJ is NOT singing the 3 songs on "MICHAEL"

Birchey said:
Okay basically when noise is generated, you can view its waveform. Like this for instance, http://www.floom.com/images/waveform_lotos.gif

That sound has its own unique waveform, as would the wave for say one vocal take of the Keep Your head Up Chorus. If that vocal run is then copy and pasted, the resulting waveform would be identical. These are not, which inplies it was another vocal.
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Ok, so does that mean that the KYHU verses that we hear on the Michael CD is made up of several different vocal tracks, all meshed into one?
 
Birchey;4023393 said:
I can't remember the other tracks, I will have to look again.

No, the Sony Servers were basically an email client for anyone connected with Sony, radio stations, DJ's, office employees and producers had accounts etc, it was private 1 to 1 messaging. Sony sent out a bunch of links to numerous sites and posted them on Britney Spears facebook etc, say the link was sonymusic.com/123456 you could download that file, but heres how we supposedly "hacked it" we changed the digits at the end to get a new download, you could litterally, start at 1 and work your way up, each download was a suprise we had no way of knowing what we were getting. The servers were even indexed by google, you could litterally google search the servers xD

100's of People were doing this around the world for over a year. Someone in Beijing downloaded over 100,000 files, the Cascio tracks were downloaded by a massive amount of people in the month before us, including Stay, which was downloaded by someone at college in Canada. I was arrested and presented with a piece of paper................12 songs on that paper, it was all about Angelikson shitting themselves to Sony, they didn't give a crap about the real MJ music we got, just them damn tracks.
Click to expand...

Amazing info. :eek:

That´s the key, they didn´t want the tracks on the net. They were scared to death.
 
Re: Estate, Cascio & Porte sued - Forensic Analysis says MJ is NOT singing the 3 songs on "MICHAEL"

kreen said:
It's common for writers/producers/others to register their material years after the fact. MJ himself registered some songs years after he recorded them, and Brad Buxer only registered some MJ songs he did with him after his death.

I guess there was no point in registering vocals that, until MJ died, were never meant to be released anyway. It could be also that registration involved MJ's authorization, which he had not given/been asked for while he was alive.
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Ok....

And what about the James Porte album? the work of Eddie, Franky :tonuge2: with James Porte?
 
Re: Estate, Cascio & Porte sued - Forensic Analysis says MJ is NOT singing the 3 songs on "MICHAEL"

kreen said:
Ok, so does that mean that the KYHU verses that we hear on the Michael CD is made up of several different vocal tracks, all meshed into one?
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Well there are 3 leads, just listening to them, you can hear they might be cut together. but the waveforms I have on these mixes are compilations of everything, so if they stiched together MJLd1 I cant tell. But what I was pointing to was that nothing from "original recording session" is repeated in the song that I can see, only the copy and pasted adlibs.

The point being they litterallty had a full song nailed. with at least 9 vocal takes. This could be as high as 90 but I cant tell.
 
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