[Discussion] Sexual Abuse Claims Against MJ Estate - Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe

[analogue]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

The public treats him just like they did Michael. Yesterday on LSA (a general forum) people were talking about it as if it's a fact he did it. A mere accusation is enough for people to judge a person - without even knowing anything further about the accuser or what he alleges.

It's a shame that so many people let their emotions get the better of them

 

[Bonnie Blue]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

So apparently Cliff Richard as been accused of child molestation. I wonder if the media will treat him the same way the treated Michael. By twisting facts or just flat out lying to make him look guilty before any evidence is seen. Or will they treat Cliff Richard more fairly

Yeah, i'm interested in the contrasts and seeing how it all plays out. Although the contempt of court rules don't apply yet as cliff hasnt been arrested, the media seem v v cautious, maybe as a result of levenson. Cliff's statement of denial was given full coverage - there were no 'peter pan or pervert' headlines. The mail isn't allowing comments and seems really broadly supportive, talking about all cliff's female relationships etc. I think the fact that the press were told about the raid by the police suggests the police are wanting the publicity to see if there are any more victims and then they would make a case. I can't see a case being made against cliff on the sayso of this one boy unless there's some other evidence, eg child porn. I bet it plays out so v different to 1993 with the media in full hue and cry of mj and the mountains of $$ being given to ex employees/friends etc to dish dirt, and the authorities only believing this one boy who alleges abuse rather than the dozens and dozens who swear nothing happened.

 

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I can't see a case being made against cliff on the sayso of this one boy unless there's some other evidence, eg child porn.

I assume there isn't because they said that no arrest warrants have been issued.

 

[analogue]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I hope that Cliff Richard is innocent because

1. Most important thing. No kids have been hurt
2. It adds proof that famous people can be accused of horrible crimes and be taken advantage of

 

[Soundmind]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

If more come forward how can we be sure they were indeed molested. He is a famous man with millions. Now every male who came into contact with him over the last 60 years could come forward with an allegation and ask for money.

MJ was very lucky no more families wanted to join the Chandlers 1993 . But see , once they faced financial hardships they were so willing to go through it.

 

[Soundmind]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

The British press seems to protect him, they are not allowing comments on articles. Behind closed doors we don't know what is going on, maybe they will start throwing money in every diction to get stories, or maybe they know not everyone is a fair game like MJ was .

 

[Justthefacts]

At first I thought this had come about because of that Jimmy Savile case but I see now that was not true. I don&#8217;t know what&#8217;s going on in Cliff Richards case but I have always been amazed how someone can just say something and they get believed. Remember in 03 when Sneddon was on Court TV he said all he needed was for one person to come forward, and of course now we know he tried contacting the Arvizos way before they said anything. All he wanted was for them to say something. Never mind the fact they were proven liars never mind the fact they lied to him, he just did not care. A lawyer on TV said Sneddon is the last person who should have been shocked by the not guilty verdict because he knew the family was a bunch of shit bags (my words). We had a supervisor at work who was locked up some years ago because his foster children said he molested them and let me tell you I can&#8217;t tell you how many times I heard &#8220;oh I knew there was something wrong with him&#8221; it was just wow. Turns out, the kids admitted that their mother, his wife put them up to it because they were getting divorced. Someone I know saw him after the fact and said to him you should try to get your job and back pay back because he was fired for what happned. And he said the last place he wants to be is back at &#8220;that place&#8221;. He said his life was ruined and the sad part is he was right<o></o>

 

[Lil]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I think it's dangerous to argue that Michael could not be a pedophile because he didn't fit a certain stereotype. There's no such thing as a "typical" pedophile, just like there is no such thing as a typical heterosexual or homosexual. This is why so many pedophiles are never caught; no one suspects them of being capable of such vile acts because they seem just like one of us. It's better to just point out the contradictions in Wade's statements than to go down this road. That alone is reason enough to assume he's full of it.

Very true, although pedophilia is more than just a sexual orientation like hetero- or homosexuality. It's not just a sexual preference, it's an obsession and actually considered a mental disorder. There's a distinction to be made between pedophiles and child molesters though. Some pedophiles will never touch a child in their lives, but you could argue that the ones who do are consumed by their obsession to the point where they have to give in to their urges (probably making it difficult for them to see children in a non-sexual way, and be very close with them without acting out) AND they probably have a certain character, or certain traits that enable them to be able to cross the line of abuse and molest a child in the first place. They also follow a certain pattern most of the time, and I've read that average numbers of victims are around 200(!). They know what they're doing is wrong and thus try to hide their crime, not draw attention to it. None of this can be applied to Michael
I get what you're saying and you're right, you can never give factual evidence of someone being a pedophile or not, but you can give at least some arguments on why Michael's behavior and character didn't fit that of a child molester. And while it is better to prove Michael's innocence by pointing out the flaws in Wade's story (cause those are facts), I do think that if you put together everything we know about Michael, what all of Michael's so called 'victims' claim has happened AND what is known about child molesters, it does not make ANY sense for Michael to have been one.

 

[Bonnie Blue]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I assume there isn't because they said that no arrest warrants have been issued.

I guess they wd need time to look at the evidence they collected yday, computer forensics? but it's not his main home, apparently he doesn't spend much time in the uk now. Cliff has said he'll fully cooperate, so i think he'll just be interviewed under caution.

If more come forward how can we be sure they were indeed molested. He is a famous man with millions. Now every male who came into contact with him over the last 60 years could come forward with an allegation and ask for money.

That's the danger, but at least cliff is alive so can defend himself and if it goes to trial you have jurors deciding on the credibility of the accusers. So far in all these post-jimmy saville trials of public figures being accused, some have been found guilty and some not, depending on the merits of each case.

One big difference between uk and usa is that once there's an arrest, there is no media comment or opinions on anything to do with the trial - it's really strict to allow a fair trial, - just straight reporting of any trial proceeding. What happened in america before and during mj's trial is just jaw dropping to me.

 

[dannyboy72]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I think it's dangerous to argue that Michael could not be a pedophile because he didn't fit a certain stereotype. There's no such thing as a "typical" pedophile, just like there is no such thing as a typical heterosexual or homosexual. This is why so many pedophiles are never caught; no one suspects them of being capable of such vile acts because they seem just like one of us. It's better to just point out the contradictions in Wade's statements than to go down this road. That alone is reason enough to assume he's full of it.

yeah you're right. Anybody can be a pedophile. Have you seen the show "To catch a predator" with Chris Hansen?

 

[Bubs]

Hey guys, I was reading in twitter that Vincent Paterson is supporter of Wade Robson family, and sceen shot of his tweet to Chantal Robson facebook was attached

I just cannot/couldn't believe it as he was crying in Bad 25 documentary and singing praise to Michael.
I checked comments under the her 10th August post and found post from Brian Friedman
https://www.facebook.com/BrianFriedmanBFree?fref=ufi

I don't know if Brian has 2 fb accounts, but I think this is his official fb account as it has links to his twitter and website
https://www.facebook.com/BrianFriedmanFans/timeline
and the one commenting in Chantal's fb is possible fake

I did the same thing with Vincent Paterson comment and it took me to this fb account
https://www.facebook.com/vincent.paterson.5?fref=ufi

This is Vincent's official fb account
https://www.facebook.com/VINCENTPATERSONOFFICIAL

For reference, here is Vincents twitter account
https://twitter.com/VincentPaterson
vincent paterson @VincentPaterson · Jun 24
MJ gone too soon

Doesn't look to me that he is supporting Wade or his family

I was wondering if Wade's lover group has created fake profile's and posting under false pretence?
I personally cannot believe either of supporting Wade and the same time doing tributes to Michael:scratch:

I was wondering if we should contact on Brian and Vincent and ask nicely directly from themselves where they are standing or whether there are impostors and if they posted on Chantal's fb

 

[Soundmind]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

will he seriously support Wade while continue to put MJ's picture as his profile ? I do believe that Vincent comment was fake. But Friedman , as I posted before, he did have the same mentality as Robsons, if he is not given what he believes he is entitled to, then he can sell dirt to the media.

 

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I would be seriously disappointed in Vincent Paterson if he supported the Robsons. I hope that comment is either fake or he has not heard about the Robsons' allegations yet.

I don't think Brian Friedman was that close to Michael, plus like Soundmind said he seems to have the same entitled user mentality as the Robsons, so I would not be surprised about him. But Paterson, that would be seriously messed up.

ETA: I checked out Chantal's FB and I have not seen any such comment by Paterson there. Brian Friedman, he does support them though, but like I said that's a case of birds of a feather.

I feel dirty every time after I check on Chantal's FB. The hypocrisy is just unbearable.

 

[Bubs]

ETA: I checked out Chantal's FB and I have not seen any such comment by Paterson there. Brian Friedman, he does support them though, but like I said that's a case of birds of a feather.

https://www.facebook.com/chantal.l.robson
Chantal Lauren Robson
August 10
Hi everyone, just letting everyone know if you curse or talk negatively about me, my brother or anyone in my family- I will block you. I am not bothering you on your page leave mine alone. love Chantal Lauren Robson

and under that post there are comments, and this
Vincent Paterson Thinking of you and your beautiful family with love.
August 12 at 12:50am · Like · 1

-----------------------------------------

I'm sorry, but it does make any sense to me and I refuse to believe either of guys posts supportive comment of Chantal fb before I have confirmation from both of them. Brian might be a bit boasting type of person, but I just cannot see him doing tributes to MJ, while knowing that MJ molested his pal, and same goes with Vincent! Brian even went to see Immortal 15 hours ago, wtf!
I'm sorry guys but I think Wade's support group has possible created fake fb account to both choreographers.
Btw, I checked first few post in WR support group fb and burst out laughing. Seriously those dopes are happily posting old articles from National Enquirer :smilerolleyes:


Does anyone here have as twitter account?
If possible could you tweet this to both Brian and Vincent
Real Brian's account
https://twitter.com/brianfriedman
and Vincent
https://twitter.com/VincentPaterson

If you just ask them individually whether this account is yours
https://www.facebook.com/vincent.paterson.5?fref=ufi
https://www.facebook.com/BrianFriedmanBFree?fref=ufi

If you guys don't have twitter accounts, I'll try to sort this out later.

 

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

^ Yes, I can see that now. I think the FB page is legit. It was created in 2008, so it's not some recent hater fake account.

The only hope left now is that he is not aware what the subject is about. Otherwise one more two-faced backstabber in Michael's life.

 

[Bubs]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

He might have created it but have abandoned it since and hackers took over.
There are enough loonies in WR support group that could have done it.

 

[dannyboy72]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Or it could be that he's being fair and keeping an open mind on both sides.

 

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Or it could be that he's being fair and keeping an open mind on both sides.

If he is "keeping an open mind" about MJ being a child rapist then I think it's better if he puts aside all of his MJ related projects, including name dropping him, until he sorts out his feelings and opinion about MJ.

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

He supports Wade because just like Wade he is no use to the estate. He hate Travis has well. Now why wound he do that?

 

[Snow White luvs Peter Pan]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I hope that comment isn't true, I'd be disappointed as well if Vincent supports that scumbag. But what I've learned over the years is that anything in the MJ world can possible.

 

[ivy]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I believe he is using that account as it posts quite a lot of information and PICTURES about his private life, work life etc.

I also have screenshot of Vincent Paterson, Cris Judd and Chucky Klapow (TII dancer) commenting on Wade's picture saying stuff like they love the photo, they miss him etc - which shows they are friendly with him.

Chucky Klapow is also quite interesting. He seems to be childhood /longtime friend of Wade. Tweeted support for Wade when the allegations first came out. Still friendly with Wade but also posts videos of Michael visiting HSM and dresses in MJ tshirts. I personally don't get how he could still be loving / a fan of MJ if he believes MJ raped his buddy.

 

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

He supports Wade because just like Wade he is no use to the estate. He has Travis has well. Now why wound he do that?

What did Travis do?

 

[ivy]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

What did Travis do?

Travis does/reaches many of the choreography from Cirque to Dancing with the stars, to SYTYCD. Back in the day when Travis Payne was on DWTS Vincent have complained that it was his choreography and Travis was getting credit for it.

 

[Annita]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

What did Travis do?

I think she means the Estate has Travis and didn`t hire Vincent Patterson.

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I believe he is using that account as it posts quite a lot of information and PICTURES about his private life, work life etc.

I also have screenshot of Vincent Paterson, Cris Judd and Chucky Klapow (TII dancer) commenting on Wade's picture saying stuff like they love the photo, they miss him etc - which shows they are friendly with him.

Chucky Klapow is also quite interesting. He seems to be childhood /longtime friend of Wade. Tweeted support for Wade when the allegations first came out. Still friendly with Wade but also posts videos of Michael visiting HSM and dresses in MJ tshirts. I personally don't get how he could still be loving / a fan of MJ if he believes MJ raped his buddy.

It's the same thing with some of Jordan Chandler friends and family. And in Wadw case his friends anger is not at Michael but the estate.

 

[Bubs]

Chucky Klapow is also quite interesting. He seems to be childhood /longtime friend of Wade. Tweeted support for Wade when the allegations first came out. Still friendly with Wade but also posts videos of Michael visiting HSM and dresses in MJ tshirts. I personally don't get how he could still be loving / a fan of MJ if he believes MJ raped his buddy.

That is just crazy! How could you go on crying and paying tribute repeatedly to someone who do you think raped your friend? Vince posted in his twitter
vincent paterson @VincentPaterson · Jun 24
MJ gone too soon

If my friend was raped by MJ, I would have written: MJ not goon soon enough, or something similar.

Anyways, I sorted out my old twitter account and I asked both of them. Either they are crazy, or I have officially entered in the crazy world.

 

[Soundmind]

vincent paterson @VincentPaterson · May 14

Wow new MJ/Jt video has a lot of my choreo with MJWonder who will take credit for it this time?

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It seems they are more upset with the estate not sharing the money.

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

It's a bunch of has been party

 

[Bubs]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

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It seems they are more upset with the estate not sharing the money.

He still seems to be mad at Travis and this post is related to Travis Payne teaching Smooth Criminal dance and not crediting VP for being the original choreographer. I don't think he was mad to the estate, but Travis for not making clear that it was "his" originally.
For ref see this:
http://jodywatley.net/2013/11/26/in-support-of-a-friend-vincent-paterson/


Anyways, I got really upset over if Vincent really is supporting Wade.
I think we should make a list of those choreographers that are betraying MJ, and next time if they need dancers to new MJ video the estate people should check that none of them never ever appears in MJ video.
I hate to think about when I cried with Vincent watching Bad 25, and later to find out that he is supporting Wade is like stab in the back.

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

A lot of these people were friends of Wade and not friends of Michael's. Yes Vincent and Michael worked together but we're they friendly?