Xscape General Discussion

[Tygger]

Bubs, two simple facts you have yet to grasp:

1. The 9K copies of Xscape given freely would have secured Michael the number one spot in the U.S. The difference was that small between Michael and The Black Keys.

Hopefully you understand Estate/Sony have to be in agreement before such distribution but, from reading your post, I see you do not.

2. The staggered release date for Xscape by Sony allowed for illegal downloads. An universal date would have cured that. Illegal downloads of Xscape happened after the European release date.

As for Grammy nominations, it seems you have some reading to do. Xscape qualified for nomination if Sony bothered to submit it. TII qualified and was submitted and nominated. The Academy was not somehow fooled by Sony's submission of TII.

You know for sure that all voting members would have voted Xscape for winner, that's funny.

I believe Xscape was amazing and would have won any category it was nominated for. Interesting that you feel otherwise.

 

[AlwaysThere]

Grammys are a complete sham anymore. There are a plethora of albums that see critical and commercial success that aren't nominated. Odds are even if Michael had been nominated for Xscape he would have lost.

 

[OnirMJ]

I think there are more possibilities as to what was & will be part of those 10 projects.
Here are 3 possibilities:

a)
Project #1 - This Is It (Movie, Soundtrack, DVD)
Project #4 - The Experience
Project #5 - Immortal (Tour & Soundtrack)
Project #7 - The Indispensable & Fan Extra's Collections

This Is It movie was released by Columbia Pictures and distributed by Sony Pictures. Nothing to do with Sony Music.

The Experience was released by Ubisoft. Nothing to do with Sony Music. Entirely different company.

Immortal Tour is a Live Tour - nothing to do with Sony Music. They just released soundtrack for the Tour (similar to This Is It soundtrack).

The Indispensable & Fan Extra's Collections were not part of the 10 projects deal. It was just to make less known MJ material out on itunes for wider audience to discover rare stuff and hidden gems, remixes and stuff.

 

[OnirMJ]

It even has an never before released track (the COMPLETE Carousel from Thriller sessions) as part of the packages

It was previously released on King Of Pop compilation in 2008.

 

[OnirMJ]

Bubs, this is old. The Grammy's merged (and dropped) some categories a few years ago and these two categories (Pop Performance by Duo or Group and Pop Collaboration) were merged into one category which is the Pop Duo/Group Performance where LNFSG was submitted.

It was also submitted for one of the major categories - Record Of The Year.

Yeah, but not by Epic, by JT label. Which is odd because it was MJ's album and single.

 

[OnirMJ]

I would be happy discussing!

There's nothing to discuss really. There are 4 more projects left. And some of them are already confirmed by various sources: Thriller 3D (John Landis), HIStory Tour 3D (John Branca), 3rd posthumous album (Rodney Jerkins, LA Reid... - not directly though). And 4th I think it will be some re-release of Off The Wall album, not necessarily anniversary edition, something like Special Edition in 2001.

Sony was involved in video games in that way that they allowed MJ's music to be used. They are profiting from that, but it's not their project as they are not the one who's releasing and distributing it.

 

[Tygger]

Grammys are a complete sham anymore. There are a plethora of albums that see critical and commercial success that aren't nominated. Odds are even if Michael had been nominated for Xscape he would have lost.

The value here is a nomination is free promotion that Sony dismissed for Xscape.

 

[Hess]

Bubs, two simple facts you have yet to grasp:

1. The 9K copies of Xscape given freely would have secured Michael the number one spot in the U.S. The difference was that small between Michael and The Black Keys.

This is not entirely correct, nor is it entirely wrong. - It was a very close run between the two albums - BUT 9.000 albums were given away for free - really that makes no difference - only if ALL 9.000 people would otherwise have bought the album... - An I HIGHLY doubt that... - Some hardcore fans propably went to the show - and they most likely had already ordered the album, and even though they got one free copy I doubt they went home and cancelled their order... - They propably just have 2 copies of the album...
And most of the 9.000 who recieved a free copy would never had bought Xscape anyway. - many would illegally download it or listen on Spotify (which they propably also did even though they got a CD....)

So I really do not think it mattered anyway. - I guess maximum 500-1000 of the people who got it for free would otherwise have bought it.

I went to see MJ Immortal with my family and friends. - We went 9 people total. - If we had all 9 gotten a free copy it would not have mattered to sales in any way. - I would still have bought the normal and the deluxe and the LP. - and none - not one - of the others would ever have bought Xscape... So this was not the reason Xscape did not reach the top spot.

Stop making excuses. - This was nice PR and a nice move from SONY or The Estate or whoever decided to give away free copies...

 

[Tygger]

Hess, it is a strategic business to achieve the number one spot on a musical chart for an artist. Nothing is left to chance as it is that important and that competitive.

Estate/Sony simply failed to secure Michael the number one spot in the U.S. Some fans can continue to make excuses for them but, it will not change the fact that they failed by giving copies away for free during Xscape's all too critical debut week in the U.S. That is the reason Michael did not achieve the number one spot in the U.S.

If I am not incorrect, the difference between Michael and The Black Keys was 7K. They failed to get Michael that all important number one slot in the U.S. when he was number one in 50 countries (where Xscape was not distributed for free during it's debut week). No one else is blameworthy. Why is that so difficult for some to accept?

Humans make errors and the executors and Sony executives are human. I believe they will not make the same error again; at least not for other artists. I hope their lesson was learned.

 

[OnirMJ]

Estate/Sony simply failed to secure Michael the number one spot in the U.S. Some fans can continue to make excuses for them but, it will not change the fact that they failed by giving copies away for free during Xscape's all too critical debut week in the U.S. That is the reason Michael did not achieve the number one spot in the U.S.

Estate/Sony simply failed to secure Michael the number one spot in the U.S. by releasing 3 fake tracks on the last album and losing half of the fanbase (not counting the ones that boycott anyway, everything without any reason). Those 9k copies are irrelevant in the sea of people they lost with MICHAEL.

Although I agree, that those free copies should have been handled differently so that they count too (like Madonna did with her tour).

 

[OnirMJ]

The value here is a nomination is free promotion that Sony dismissed for Xscape.

Submission, not nomination. Record company just submits their artists and then Grammys nominate them for an award.

 

[MJJuniorSinceMW]

This Is It movie was released by Columbia Pictures and distributed by Sony Pictures. Nothing to do with Sony Music.

The Experience was released by Ubisoft. Nothing to do with Sony Music. Entirely different company.

Immortal Tour is a Live Tour - nothing to do with Sony Music. They just released soundtrack for the Tour (similar to This Is It soundtrack).

The Indispensable & Fan Extra's Collections were not part of the 10 projects deal. It was just to make less known MJ material out on itunes for wider audience to discover rare stuff and hidden gems, remixes and stuff.

Nonetheless, 'This Is It' was part of the Deal.
Nonetheless, 'Immortal'

 

[Bubs]

Bubs, two simple facts you have yet to grasp:

1. The 9K copies of Xscape given freely would have secured Michael the number one spot in the U.S. The difference was that small between Michael and The Black Keys.

Hopefully you understand Estate/Sony have to be in agreement before such distribution but, from reading your post, I see you do not.

2. The staggered release date for Xscape by Sony allowed for illegal downloads. An universal date would have cured that. Illegal downloads of Xscape happened after the European release date.

As for Grammy nominations, it seems you have some reading to do. Xscape qualified for nomination if Sony bothered to submit it. TII qualified and was submitted and nominated. The Academy was not somehow fooled by Sony's submission of TII.



I believe Xscape was amazing and would have won any category it was nominated for. Interesting that you feel otherwise.

As for bolded bit, I think you better go back reading Grammy rules as you still fail to understand the difference between submitting and nomination, and how things works.

As for rest of your post, I would respond in more detail, but I just don't bother because only thing you concentrate your attention is that Sony/Estate is fault basically standing on the way of total world peace, and they are probably responsible of all the misery in the world.
Like I said previously, you are so obvious

 

[OnirMJ]

Nonetheless, 'This Is It' was part of the Deal.
Nonetheless, 'Immortal'

 

[OnirMJ]

Worldwide Carousel was first available with the FanExtra collection. Though i checked & it went also with the Italian KOP edition before.

So, it was not unreleased. Worldwide available? You can order King Of Pop on amazon, they ship worldwide. And it's not just Italian version. It was released on French/Singapore edition also.

 

[OnirMJ]

But there's still Dangerous 25th next year.

Highly doubt it. Especially after Bad 25 debacle.

 

[MJJuniorSinceMW]

You are right. Carousel was available before. (I always had the leak & therefore wasn't keen about/didn't realize it's release until i could easily download it via iTunes.)

This stands still:
And i've yet to see a reasonable explanation from you why the iTunes packages weren't part of the deal!
"It was just to make less known material out on iTunes.."

 

[Tygger]

OnirMJ, promotion happens at the nomination phase, not submission.

Bubs, read the above. I am clearly speaking of the nomination phase. As for the rest, there is no need for you to dispute the fact Estate/Sony is to blame for Michael not earning the U.S. number one but, I understand you may feel otherwise.

 

[OnirMJ]

Want to add the following: To me Bad 25 was everything, but definitely no debacle.

But it was. A commercial debacle.

What i want to say is, maybe Bad 25 didn't do as well as sony expected. But this kind of sales should be expected for a anniversary release, which was mainly aimed at fans/hardcore fans.

That is the point. "didn't do as well as sony expected" - meaning that it sold a lot less than it was expected for a anniversary release. Meaning the album wasn't profitable for them - meaning they lost money on it or break even at best.

 

[OnirMJ]

Especially pay attention to 10 projects, not ten albums.

Yes, projects, not albums. Because Vision was not an album. HIStory 3D will not be an album and Thriller 3D will not be an album.

You should pay attention to following "Administrators of Michael Jackson's estate and his longtime record label, Sony Music Entertainment" - not Ubisoft, not Sony Pictures, but Sony Music. Now go to all released projects, if you bought them and search for word Epic on them which is MJ's record label as part of Sony Music Entertainment.

I have nothing else to say about this. There are 4 more projects coming until 2017.

 

[MJJuniorSinceMW]

Meaning the album wasn't profitable for them - meaning they lost money on it or break even at best.

How do you know? I'm interested now. They lost money or break even? That alone would be a huge difference.
I tell you, you DON'T know! It could be that they just expected larger sales. Maybe the income wasn't as high as projected. Therefore surely the margin of profit was higher on stuff like The suit case, the leather jacket & the exclusively sold Docu-BluRay.
But a financial loss? Or break even? You simply don't know it man!

Yes, projects, not albums. Because Vision was not an album. HIStory 3D will not be an album and Thriller 3D will not be an album.

You should pay attention to following "Administrators of Michael Jackson's estate and his longtime record label, Sony Music Entertainment" - not Ubisoft, not Sony Pictures, but Sony Music. Now go to all released projects, if you bought them and search for word Epic on them which is MJ's record label as part of Sony Music Entertainment.

I have nothing else to say about this. There are 4 more projects coming until 2017.

I disagree. I think there are no more than 3 projects coming.

And still NO answer on 'The Indispensable' & 'Fan Extras' Releases!


And.. i'll give you a small hint: You shouldn't state your opinion as stone cold fact all the time.
One time i witnessed a complete 180° turnaraound with you. For month you preached LNFSG has nothing to do on a new album of unreleased material. Then it became known that it would be the first single and you went all ballistic & fed up about it for days. Then upon release & nowadays still LNFSG is the most accomplished thing in your book regarding Xscape.

 

[Annita]

Michael is nominated for a Echo 2015 (Germany) in category rock/pop artist international. We will se on March 26 if he will win.

http://www.shortnews.de/id/1144341/...kson-und-helene-fischer-unter-den-nominierten


Echo 2015: Michael Jackson und Helene Fischer unter den Nominierten
Die Nominierungen für den Musikpreis Echo 2015 wurden bekannt gegeben.

Darunter befindet sich auch der verstorbene Sänger Michael Jackson, der den Preis in der Kategorie "Künstler Rock/Pop international" bekommen könnte.

Favoritin ist jedoch in vielen Kategorien die Schlagerqueen Helene Fischer. Wer die Preise erhält, wird sich am 26. März entscheiden. Die ARD zeigt die Show live.


Edit:
Nomination in Category Artist Rock/Pop international


Künstler Rock/Pop international

• James Blunt
• Eric Clapton & Friends
• Michael Jackson
• Ed Sheeran
• Pharrell Williams

 

[OnirMJ]

How do you know? I'm interested now. They lost money or break even? That alone would be a huge difference.
I tell you, you DON'T know! It could be that they just expected larger sales. Maybe the income wasn't as high as projected. Therefore surely the margin of profit was higher on stuff like The suit case, the leather jacket & the exclusively sold Docu-BluRay.
But a financial loss? Or break even? You simply don't know it man!

Sony representative who was in contact with a member here asked that member to do a quick survey with fans about why they think the album underperformed. It was commercial and chart flop. Let's call it just that. You are right that I don't know if they lost money or not, but it wasn't profitable, that I know. The income wasn't what they aimed for.

 

[OnirMJ]

For month you preached LNFSG has nothing to do on a new album of unreleased material. Then it became known that it would be the first single and you went all ballistic & fed up about it for days. Then upon release & nowadays still LNFSG is the most accomplished thing in your book regarding Xscape.

That is false. I didn't like the idea of unfinished demo from 1980 being on the album with almost complete professionally recorded songs from 90's and 00's. And I still think that. After I found out that that demo with incomplete lyrics will be the first single from highly anticipated new MJ album I was disappointed, because I thought that was the wrong decision. After I heard poor McClain's version on iHearts Music Awards I was furious and frustrated - yes I admit. BUT immediately after hearing masterfully produced Timbaland version with brilliant JT backing vocals I changed my mind and publicly admitted here that I was wrong. Nothing wrong with that. Who could have known back then what Timbo will do with it? That song proves his talent, he really is a production genious. From 30 year old demo tape with no multitracks he created a classic MJ song. I think I can't be blamed for not believing in miracles.

And even though Timbo did great job, LNFSG is still not my favourite song from the album or "most accomplished thing in my book". I still think that both Chicago and Slave To The Rhythm are better songs and that they should have been released as singles before LNFSG.

 

[OnirMJ]

I disagree. I think there are no more than 3 projects coming.

We'll see. Or should I say you'll see.

And still NO answer on 'The Indispensable' & 'Fan Extras' Releases!

I answered it. Don't want to repeat myself. They just took all songs they had and put it on itunes in 2 collections. In my opinion it's like they printed more copies of Off The Wall, Thriller, Bad... and stock the shelves in CD shops and record stores.

Exactly the same thing as this, just different format:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Collection_(Michael_Jackson_album)

 

[Slave To The Rhythm]

The only two songs i listend to regurarly in the last weeks are LNFSG and APWNN and sometimes Xscape.
After a longer time period you can clearly see who did the best production job!

Edit: I forgot Chicago, love that song. Don't like the original to be honest.

 

[Hess]

My favorite songs are - in order:

1. Loving You
2. Chicago
3. A Place with no name
4. Slave To the Rhythm
5. LNFSG - solo and duet share this space
6. Xscape
7. Do you know where your children are
8. Blue Gangsta


- The CD is in my car - so I hear the album every day. - I like all the songs very much. - I do hear the original versions the most though... - Like the contemporized versions too.

 

[DanGerouS-]

soon it was one year ago when the STTR/xperia ad got streamed. damn, it was so exciting.

 

[tricia70]

I just love this album. His strong vocals are showcased in every song. I loved the entire experience. It was bittersweet considering Michael was not here, but to know that Michael, even while not here, is able to generate a successful project was heart warming and exciting for me. It shows the power of Michael's popularity and relevance in the music business. Let's hope we have at least one more project like this one. :clapping:

 

[Hess]

I just love this album. His strong vocals are showcased in every song. I loved the entire experience. It was bittersweet considering Michael was not here, but to know that Michael, even while not here, is able to generate a successful project was heart warming and exciting for me. It shows the power of Michael's popularity and relevance in the music business. Let's hope we have at least one more project like this one. :clapping:

Yeah - I really hope there is enough material for another hit project like Xscape.

Maybe next project will be even more amazing - not many leaked songs back - so if next album has 8 songs too - maybe 6 or 7 of those will be songs we've never heard before. - I just hope they are as good as the songs on Xscape.


Can't wait for the next all new MJ album !!