so you think its just nervious trick? and he didnt have any problems with health during this performace? right?
so you think its just nervious trick? and he didnt have any problems with health during this performace? right?
Regarding The Way You Make Me FeelHis health was fine at the start of the '88 leg yet he still had subpar vocals (for the most part) for songs he would later lip-sync.
Yes specifically for Beat It, I do wonder why it disappeared for the Victory Tour.
The opening sucks but the rest is super good, specifically "oh I'll be workin' from nine to five, to buy you things to keep you by my side", I've scoured through every concert where he sings that line live and this is the best one. In all the Bad Tour concerts where he sings this his voice cracks or he lets the backup singers do it.
Kansas 1988, Tunis 1996 and the other MSG concert exist.
There are always exceptions, but for the most part he did. That's what I meant when I said "There are naturally more variations on these but these are the main ones."
No, he did, he had pretty bad lupus at the time and he was also very malnourished. He might've had some Laryngitis too, he said it troubled him in 2001so you think its just nervious trick? and he didnt have any problems with health during this performace? right?
and that is the reason why he was hiding his mouth?No, he did, he had pretty bad lupus at the time and he was also very malnourished. He might've had some Laryngitis too, he said it troubled him in 2001
We have five instances where he sings the line.Regarding The Way You Make Me Feel
We have only heard MJ sung that part live from the Bad Tour once in the low quality amateur recording of the MSG 1988 concerts and he sings it 10x better than he did in MSG 2001. Even if he did sing that part better than the one concert we have heard from MSG are you gonna ignore the rest? How does one good line make up for 90% of bad singing?
It's crazy how people can listen to the same thing and hear entirely different things.
1:39:40
I was not aware of this, touché. Very informative.Regarding his health
His health was not fine. He was suffering from laryngitis almost from the start of the 88 tour. He canceled the second show in St. Louis after performing the first concert while he was sick. the St Louis shows were the shows after the MSG concerts. MJ was suffering from lupus that attacks the lungs very aggressively and laryngitis as well. On top of that MJ still had chronic scalp pain and headaches from the Pepsi accident and he had notoriously poor sleeping habits as well as eating habits. On top of that he danced so much that he lost 5 lbs of weight during the concert that Michael Bush had to design him smaller new clothes! It's quite unbelievable that he even could sing and dance as long as he did before he realized that something had to give. This was not sustainable because he was a human after all.
This is one out of three, and although it is much harder to identify. The shuffling in the amateur audio for this section suggests he might kick during them (in the other night in Toronto a dude even audibly reacts to it), but we can't know for sure.Regarding WBSS
Well, you say for the most part that he did that kick but we have only seen 3 PRO WBSS footage from the victory tour (Dallas, Toronto, Kansas) and one amatuer concert (NY). I don't remember him doing that kick in NY either. I think he was just trying some stuff out, but that's just my opinion.
I guess Michael disagreed with you and was not ok with imperfections being a perfectionist and allAll the TWYMMF performances you guys posted sounded fine to me even with the imperfections, a cracking voice? So what, I don’t want to hear the exact same audio from the album.
For me it would be part of the charm, the experience. There is no such thing as perfection anyway otherwise he would sing it live, the fact that he couldn’t bring it live the way he wanted to and thus lip synced it is an imperfection in itself.I guess Michael disagreed with you and was not ok with imperfections being a perfectionist and all
Well I specifically was talking about " Live concert performances" Not rehearsals because he wasn't always singing a 100% during rehearsals, But since you brought them up let's take a closer look at themWe have five instances where he sings the line.
1988 Pensacola rehearsals - Voice crack on the "side".
1988 MSG March 5 - No issues although it has a noticeably different delivery than the album version. I've not heard it until you linked it admittedly (I'm a pretty new fan).
1988 MSG March 6 - Voice crack on the "side" again. I'm not sure how you thought there were only two when I literally linked this one in the previous post. Perhaps the difference between the default grey and the white used for links is not noticeable enough. Whenever I refer to a specific moment I've been sourcing all the things I've said (as well as the list here) with timed hyperlinks in my previous posts.
1992 rehearsals - He barely sings half of it.
2001 MSG September 7th - It took me many listens before I realised this line wasn't the album. Other fans I showed to have expressed the same sentiment.
This gives more credibility to the theory that the kiss happened on March 6th and that Spike Lee mislabeled the footage. Newspaper articles mention a kiss happening on the 6th not on the 3rd.TWYMMF from MSG March 6 (Which i think really is from the 3rd because of how perfectly it lines up with the footage in bad25)
I don't really hear a voice crack here at all. The same as March 5. Terrific vocal performances.
I think you misunderstand me, all I was saying is that the delivery of that particular line is my favourite. That's it. The fact we're still talking about it is purely because you latched onto it when you first responded to me. And given the new recordings I've been exposed to, both of MSG September 7th and the MSG concert, I no longer hold the September 7th TWYMMF vocals in such high regard.I don't understand the fixation about that single note being the decider if he did great vocal performance or not.
Don't worry, it's not even close to the top. Brunei December 31st for me, thank you.But hey, in the end we all like what we like. If this is your favorite TWYMMF performance then good. We all have different tastes.
Fans need to stop with the laryngitis excuse. Did he have laryngitis during the entirety of the HIStory tour? And also on the day he did every one of his later TV appearances? Why wasn't his speaking voice affected? And why could he still do the "oows" and "aoohs" during the ad-libs?Regarding his health
His health was not fine. He was suffering from laryngitis almost from the start of the 88 tour.
Fans need to stop with the laryngitis excuse. Did he have laryngitis during the entirety of the HIStory tour? And also on the day he did every one of his later TV appearances? Why wasn't his speaking voice affected? And why could he still do the "oows" and "aoohs" during the ad-libs?
You literally answered your own question. There were official statements from MJ's team that stated shows were cancelled because of laryngitis. Michael's autopsy literally said his lungs were suffering from "widespread respiratory bronchiolitis and chronic lung inflammation" and that was during This Is It, when his voice was in relatively good condition.There's an interview he did on the radio, where the host asks him if he could sing a few notes, and MJ tells him "I can't, larygintis", despite his voice being fine the rest of the interview...
But it clearly wasn't easier, because he was still singing under the playback.At some point in the Eighties, somebody told MJ he could just mime along to a playback and people wouldn't mind, and it would make the show easier for him.
This is clearly not the case, the Dangerous Tour Bucharest concert is way more popular than Wembley '88. Munich 1997 performances are above even that, and there are clearly many fans here that love the 90s performances. Just because you don't like them doesn't mean everyone does.The result is that MJ's live work post-80's is largely disposable now,
I really don’t care if he doesn’t hit all the notes, it’s a high intensity concert and he is a professional singer he knows ways to work around this. I’m perfectly fine with the background singers filling up notes MJ can’t reach. It would be ok too to just leave some sentences out, it’s no disgrace. The lip syncing is though
All the TWYMMF performances you guys posted sounded fine to me even with the imperfections, a cracking voice? So what, I don’t want to hear the exact same audio from the album.
Agree 100%.For me it would be part of the charm, the experience. There is no such thing as perfection anyway otherwise he would sing it live, the fact that he couldn’t bring it live the way he wanted to and thus lip synced it is an imperfection in itself.
..... and that's your opinionAt some point in the Eighties, somebody told MJ he could just mime along to a playback and people wouldn't mind, and it would make the show easier for him. He tried it, it "worked", and then he abused it, since the people who could have told him it wasn't acceptable -- the ticket-buying fans -- chose to let him get away with it. The result is that MJ's live work post-80's is largely disposable now, when that of other artists is looked at as definitive live material that rivals or exceeds what they did on record. The whole thing is a terrible, terrible missed opportunity.
It's not, he's stating falsehoods as objective truth...... and that's your opinion
Is this MSG 2001 first show you're talking about? I don't know the full story here but my understanding is that on that first night, Michael was late turning up, he was discovered in his room in a zonked out state. A drug overdose? I have no idea but he seems to have been in some sort of drug induced state. I believe they hauled him into the shower and did ... whatever, to get him going again. Got him to the venue where he turned in what seems to be a duff performance.Honestly I was shocked by his condition on the red carpet with Liz Taylor he had to be woken up for the show he was late
You're exactly correct, unfortunately. In Jermain Jackson's book, You Are Not Alone: Michael Through a Brother's Eyes he described Michael overdosing on Demoral before the concert and struggling to get him to the concert less than an hour before the show started. The red carpet footage he was talking about was thisIs this MSG 2001 first show you're talking about? I don't know the full story here but my understanding is that on that first night, Michael was late turning up, he was discovered in his room in a zonked out state. A drug overdose? I have no idea but he seems to have been in some sort of drug induced state. I believe they hauled him into the shower and did ... whatever, to get him going again. Got him to the venue where he turned in what seems to be a duff performance.
I haven't looked into this because the whole thing depresses the hell out of me. But if this is true, if he was out of it (perhaps because he really didn't want to do the show) and they did whatever to get him up and moving, how is that any different to how Judy Garland was treated by Hollywood? I realise that if the show had been cancelled a lot of money would have been lost. Is that more important than Michael's health? In my world, no. Easy for me to say since I'm not the person losing money but I don't care. He's a human being.
If I've got the details of this story wrong, I apologise. As I said, I've never tried to verify it cos it's so depressing I don't wanna even think about it. And I'm a person who has zero interest in watching anyone lipsync through a 'live' show. It's the main reason the footage of HWT doesn't really interest me. But if all of this really happened on that night of the first MSG 2001 show I don't think the issue is whether he hit a duff note that night. I think there are more important things to be worried about.
Btw, mjfanboy27, I'm not having a go at you. I'm only mentioning all of this cos whenever I see these sort of discussions and MSG 2001 comes up no-one ever seems to mention this story of why Michael wasn't delivering a good performance on the first night. If the story, as I understand it, is true then I'd say it's pretty relevant.
Yeah, that's pretty much the account I came across. I generally try to avoid tabloid 'noise' around Michael but, with this story, I did think it sounded authentic but, like I said, it's so depressing I didn't wanna look into it any further. And this was a couple of years ago, Michael was already dead, so there was no gain for me to know if it was really true.You're exactly correct, unfortunately. In Jermain Jackson's book, You Are Not Alone: Michael Through a Brother's Eyes he described Michael overdosing on Demoral before the concert and struggling to get him to the concert less than an hour before the show started. The red carpet footage he was talking about was thisHe's holding onto Elizabeth like a child in a mall holding his mother, his fly's undone and his speech is completely slurred. There's clearly something very wrong there.
I agree but why'd you pick the moment where he was actually himself (the pre-Billie Jean set-up). That's literally the only point at which he grins. The suitcase bit wasn't random either, it was rehearsed.oh, well, we got very far from the original question of what you think about the 30th Anniversary concerts. Even on day 2 when apparently he was sober and performance is better, there is no joy in it. No joy, no attitude, no precision in his movements, even in Billie Jean he just throws the suitcase at random, picks up the hat randomly, no impromptu awws, kicks, crotch grabbing, no real audience connection. No one fainted, most importantly again no joy on Michael's face. He is just going through the motions, its not a MJ concert, live signing or no singing.
You literally answered your own question. There were official statements from MJ's team that stated shows were cancelled because of laryngitis. Michael's autopsy literally said his lungs were suffering from "widespread respiratory bronchiolitis and chronic lung inflammation" and that was during This Is It, when his voice was in relatively good condition.
But it clearly wasn't easier, because he was still singing under the playback.
This is clearly not the case, the Dangerous Tour Bucharest concert is way more popular than Wembley '88. Munich 1997 performances are above even that, and there are clearly many fans here that love the 90s performances. Just because you don't like them doesn't mean everyone does.
Yeah, that's pretty much the account I came across. I generally try to avoid tabloid 'noise' around Michael but, with this story, I did think it sounded authentic but, like I said, it's so depressing I didn't wanna look into it any further. And this was a couple of years ago, Michael was already dead, so there was no gain for me to know if it was really true.
I haven't read Jermaine's book. I have issues with Jermaine! Don't feel terribly inclined to go there. But thank you for confirming this. It's depressing but I think it's important for a full account of that night to be acknowledged. Whatever the arguments about any other sub-par performance Michael did - or did not - deliver, for this particular show there is a whole other thing going on which I don't think can be ignored.
It's not a PR excuse, because PR never made such claims. He said he had laryngitis during the HIStory Tour once ever. Unless you mean to imply that PR somehow doctored every copy of his autopsy just for an excuse for playback?He may have had laryngitis during some of the shows on some of the tours, but he obviously didn't have laryngitis for the whole year the HIStory tour lasted. It was just a PR excuse.
Why do I have to keep repeating myself? Listen to the brief live vocals in the Off The Wall Medley, he sounds just like the CD, even more so than in 1981.MJ singing along to the CD on Don't Stop Til You Get Enough would not fly today.
Yeah, I came across this stuff. For me, the issue is not 'how out of it' Michael looked. I think the issue is, if he took a drug overdose, that's an indication of high distress about something. I'm more concerned about that.It's not just Jermaine who's talked about this, but also Frank Cascio, who was there, as well as at least one of MJ's other collaborators (I forget whom). I remember journalists mentioning how out of it MJ looked on the red carpet.
Are you sure you wanna bring Randy Philips into this? Isn't that the guy who bragged about slapping Michael on his backside and screamed in Michael's face? I don't care if the story isn't true. Maybe Randy was just trying to pretend he's a big shot but it doesn't matter. The fact that he could write that email, the fact he didn't expect anyone to challenge him, that's bad enough, never mind if it actually happened the way he said it did.We also have a first-hand and incontrovertible account, from Randy Phillps of AEG, that MJ was "locked in his room drunk" when it was time to do the TII press conference. Philips wrote that in an email to an AEG colleague as it was happening.
'Acting' this way? Really? If Michael was so distressed by the thought of performing at certain times that he gets drunk or takes an overdose or refuses to go out and do the TII announcement I'm not sure I'd dismiss that as him 'acting' in certain ways. I would assume there was some level of serious distress going on that needed to be addressed properly.So there is a history there of MJ acting this way.