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The Discussion of MJ's Unreleased Tracks

Having read about the Invincible sessions, I always get the vibe that Mike wasn't as impressed with Darkchild as he was Teddy in 1991.

I think Michael was reaching out looking for a contemporary producer between 1997-2000 to give him that new sound. I remember reading that Mike wasn't keen on YRMW until it was sung into his ear. I'm sure I read in Damien's book Carole Bayer Sager had to convince Michael to meet with Rodney.

It didn't seem as much of collaboration as it was a question of Mike asking "how should I sound in 2001?" Then Darkchild and his team made songs to sound like Michael, rather than with him as he had with Teddy for Dangerous
 
SmoothCriminal1995 said:
Having read about the Invincible sessions, I always get the vibe that Mike wasn't as impressed with Darkchild as he was Teddy in 1991.

I think Michael was reaching out looking for a contemporary producer between 1997-2000 to give him that new sound. I remember reading that Mike wasn't keen on YRMW until it was sung into his ear. I'm sure I read in Damien's book Carole Bayer Sager had to convince Michael to meet with Rodney.

It didn't seem as much of collaboration as it was a question of Mike asking "how should I sound in 2001?" Then Darkchild and his team made songs to sound like Michael, rather than with him as he had with Teddy for Dangerous
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Would've been interesting if Mike hooked up with The Neptunes for Invincible.
 
Derek1984 said:
Would've been interesting if Mike hooked up with The Neptunes for Invincible.
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Yeah I think that would have been exciting to hear what they could have made together mate.

I really wish Mike kept working with Dr Freeze, those sessions in 1998 are incredible, vocally the best from Invincible

Also thanks for sharing that new information @Alec
 
SmoothCriminal1995 said:
I really wish Mike kept working with Dr Freeze, those sessions in 1998 are incredible, vocally the best from Invincible
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Agreed. I was pleased to hear that MJ was still working with Dr Freeze before his death. One of the highlights from Invincible come from his sessions, both with released and unreleased songs.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:

Is this a real seminar leak? It seems nice and fake to me.
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I think the audio is real but the song is fake, the audio's quality is alright but then the song sounds distorted. And also the channel posts fake leaks mostly so it's pretty likely that it's a troll.
 
Derek1984 said:
Would've been interesting if Mike hooked up with The Neptunes for Invincible.
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That wouldn't have even been interesting tbh. It just would've been good ole' music. Straight up one of the best records ever made.

Interesting would've been an actual work relationship with Kanye. Before his fame.
 
I don’t care for Pharrell or the Neptunes much. The beats they submitted that wound up going to Justin Timberlake weren’t up to MJ’s standards anyways.

I’d have liked to see MJ do something with Timbaland. Those two would’ve been a match made in hip-hop heaven.
 
random question, but does anyone know what differences the Quincy version of PoF has to the Demo of PoF, also how many songs did Quincy produce in Bad total? (Including unreleased songs)
 
AlwaysThere said:
Eh, different strokes for different folks. They’re good, but for an artist like MJ they’re below average in my opinion. I don’t want Pharrell anywhere near MJ music.
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LMAO are you KIDDING??? i would give ANYTHING to hear michael sing rock your body 😭 😭 especially the beatboxing part lol
 
AlwaysThere said:
Eh, different strokes for different folks. They’re good, but for an artist like MJ they’re below average in my opinion. I don’t want Pharrell anywhere near MJ music.
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As compared to, Invincible. Idk man. Different strokes indeed maybe.

I mean, they're not the greatest songs ever, but if MJ had his hands in them, they definitely would've had a great collaboration. Pharrell certainly inspires more confidence than Darkchild, no disrespect. But maybe the early 2000s just weren't so enlightened. The late 2000s are aging much greater.
 
DarylJoel_B said:
LMAO are you KIDDING??? i would give ANYTHING to hear michael sing rock your body 😭 😭 especially the beatboxing part lol
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“Rock Your Body” (and every other beat the Neptunes prepared) were instrumentals when MJ got them. They didn’t get a melody or lyrics until they were given to JT. If MJ held onto them, it would’ve been a completely different song.
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
As compared to, Invincible. Idk man. Different strokes indeed maybe.

I mean, they're not the greatest songs ever, but if MJ had his hands in them, they definitely would've had a great collaboration. Pharrell certainly inspires more confidence than Darkchild, no disrespect. But maybe the early 2000s just weren't so enlightened. The late 2000s are aging much greater.
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I’ve always felt that the Pharrell beats were trying too hard to replicate Off the Wall. Like, “Rock Your Body” is great for a new artist like JT, but it would’ve been musically backward looking for MJ. Compared to the Darkchild tracks that, other than “You Rock My World,” all felt like efforts to push things forward. Personally, I think Darkchild was the better route of the two, though I still mourn that Dre and Timbaland never got in the studio with MJ.
 
ChanceToDance said:
So 6 songs. Xscape has already been released and counting GYWOOM that brings us to 4 songs. If we're generous and count the songs on TUC that brings us to 3 songs. There's a chance that there are 3 more Rodney Jerkins tracks we've never heard of that are in a releasable state.
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And we have 6 names of Rodney Jerkins tracks : Get your weight off of me, Kick it, The Pain, Pressure, Get Around, Maybe we can do it (with P Diddy)
Some are rumored to have be rework for a new album in 2002/2003.

If the Estate mentions "half of a dozen tracks", it looks like the Rodney Jerkins reworks of Chicago 1945, Cheater and Get Around don't exist
 
zinniabooklover said:
Coming back to this. Short answer - it depends. On balance, I would say, yeah, go for it.

Depends on what your expectations are or what you want from a Michael book. If you are a veteran fan, you've read loads of Michael books, you know loads about his work and you want to be surprised by this book, maybe you won't get much out of it. Since Joe published his book there have been quite a few others that have avoided the tabloid trash approach and actually looked at Michael's work seriously. Joe's book must have been one of the first to do that but there is more choice now.

I haven't seen the first edition, except online, but I know it's really different. Lots of photos, seems to have a nice layout. Production values look high. Looks quite large format. I have the pbk 2019 edition. Low-ish production values, Really boring set of photos in the middle - the album covers plus one photo of Michael in the studio (not rare). The first edition has a foreword by Anthony de Curtis, in the 2nd edition that's gone.

I was a bit lukewarm about the book bc reading books about music isn't really my thing. Just started re-reading this. Had forgotten that I do like his writing style. He's an academic, a good writer, imo.

"As an artist, then, his work was about liberation. He wanted to free what was bound, awaken what was dormant. He wanted to break through barriers and limitations - any obstacle in the way of his ambition or imagination. He wanted to invigorate the body, mind and soul. This is what the music did for him personally ...

This was his gift as an artist: his ability to fully dissolve into the stories, the emotions, and the magic of his music - and to take people from all walks of life with him. He called this creative bond many things over the years: escapism, entertainment, showmanship, art. But ultimately, for Jackson, it was about sharing and receiving love."
(Joe Vogel)


Fair point. I'd still say, go for it.
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Is the MJ book by Damien Shields any good?
 
The songs that Pharrell Williams submitted to Michael Jackson were mostly nothing special or mind-blowing, and certain of them did not really suit him vocally.

For example, the 'Senorita' song lacks a strong melody, and it is also lyrically very shallow.

Or, the 'Take It From Here' boring ballad (the listener almost falls asleep while listening to it).

Or, the 'Nothing Else' mediocre song, which is a song that vocally suits better the Australian singer Darren Hayes, rather than Michael Jackson.

But, the 'I Don't Know' song (which ended up on Usher's album) appeared to be a missed opportunity for Michael Jackson, and it also would have fitted his 'Invincible' album.
 
Ironically I don't know about the song "I Don't Know" being suitable for Michael either. The beat is hot, but the melody is all over the place and the song in general has little to no direction.

Most Usher songs are like this to me though, there's a great idea in there but it's got no direction and becomes tiresome after 3 minutes.
 
AlwaysThere said:
Their bridges are crazy. Their choruses and lyrics leave a lot to be desired though.
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Nobody is saying Justin Timberlake is a musical genius. The lyrics are outright juvenile at times, that much is true.

They are catchy songs with good production that has aged reasonably well. And I'll take these "boring" ballads over certain users "boring" sermons opinionating on them.


And certainly in the right hands, they are far more capable songs to be added to MJ's catalogue. Maybe not as his new and only sound, but certainly some of the best songs among them wouldn't have hurt.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
Nobody is saying Justin Timberlake is a musical genius. The lyrics are outright juvenile at times, that much is true.

They are catchy songs with good production that has aged reasonably well. And I'll take these "boring" ballads over certain users "boring" sermons opinionating on them.


And certainly in the right hands, they are far more capable songs to be added to MJ's catalogue. Maybe not as his new and only sound, but certainly some of the best songs among them wouldn't have hurt.
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I’m not saying otherwise! I honestly think JT is the closest we’ve had to MJ in terms of a 21st century pop artist who does legitimately unique and interesting, boundary pushing things. He’s nowhere near MJ’s level, but he definitely contributes more than most other pop artists.

I still don’t hear it. That mashup doesn’t work at all to me; the original YRMW beat is better. But I’ve always been a loner when it comes to disliking Pharrell/the Neptunes lol.
 
AlwaysThere said:
I’m not saying otherwise! I honestly think JT is the closest we’ve had to MJ in terms of a 21st century pop artist who does legitimately unique and interesting, boundary pushing things. He’s nowhere near MJ’s level, but he definitely contributes more than most other pop artists.

I still don’t hear it. That mashup doesn’t work at all to me; the original YRMW beat is better. But I’ve always been a loner when it comes to disliking Pharrell/the Neptunes lol.
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Well he's had his very high highs, and his lows lol, JT I mean. As all we JTs do

It's not a seamless mashup, but MJ just sounds at ease over any uptempo to me. It would be a great floor buster. I would not fault anyone preferring YRMW though.

And I have heard a lot of Neptune's production that does sound just like this, so I do understand how "samey" it might be to some. Babyface, even TLC. It was everywhere back then.
 
My favorite song by Justin Timberlake, and it's not really well-known. Maybe it's weak lyrically, but the bridge, the strings, the outro, I never get tired of this song. If only MJ was able to do his thing on this.

 
Pollonio said:
And we have 6 names of Rodney Jerkins tracks : Get your weight off of me, Kick it, The Pain, Pressure, Get Around, Maybe we can do it (with P Diddy)
Some are rumored to have be rework for a new album in 2002/2003.

If the Estate mentions "half of a dozen tracks", it looks like the Rodney Jerkins reworks of Chicago 1945, Cheater and Get Around don't exist
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Supposedly Rampage and the track that evolved into It’s Not Worth It were worked on with MJ in 1999. They might not be in a releasable state though. Also, Get Around is from the Bad sessions, not Invincible.
 
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