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Michael's amazing accent or just low vocal quality?

Richard76

Heartbreaker
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I noticed that in songs Heartbreaker and Invincible (but mostly in Heartbreaker), it is really hard to understand what Michael's saying. He's literally eating edges of almost every word 😂 he didn't finish them. Moreover he has really strange pronunciation, that's why i don't even understand some of the lyrics. For example, on chorus part, Michael's saying something on the background. And its really hard to understand whether its "oh no" or "come on" or "oh girl"😂 (if you don't believe me check it out on 1:56
) And I'm just wondering whether its because of Michael's specific style (he's cutting edges of words on purpose) or Michael didn't even cared and didn't tried to sing well.
 
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In terms of vocals, Michael Jackson does not sound good on his up-tempo songs of the 'Invincible' album.

One can even say that he sounds as if he had a sore throat while singing these songs (listen, for example, the bridge of the 'Heartbreaker' song, where he literally struggles to sing his lines).

But it was apparently also due to the ageing process of his voice (this is unavoidable and, of course, it applies also to every other singer in the world).

Note that some fans claim that his strained voice on that album was because of the different way the album was mixed and also because of the mixing and mastering which were done in a rushed way.
 
MJ is a rhythmic singer first and foremost, especially on his dance tracks, so timing almost always wins out over clarity. Moreover, he seems to care more about conveying emotion rather than getting his lyrics across.

Is there a better example than that ad-lib towards the end of TDCAU (you know the one I mean)? I doubt anyone knows what he's saying, but he's doing it in a staccato style, with a huge sense of urgency, and it sounds great. Personally I love it - I care more about feel than clarity too.

This reminds me of that classic Eddie Murphy impersonation of James Brown (who's exactly the same way and no doubt inspired MJ in this regard too):
:D
 
mj_frenzy said:
In terms of vocals, Michael Jackson does not sound good on his up-tempo songs of the 'Invincible' album.

One can even say that he sounds as if he had a sore throat while singing these songs (listen, for example, the bridge of the 'Heartbreaker' song, where he literally struggles to sing his lines).

But it was apparently also due to the ageing process of his voice (this is unavoidable and, of course, it applies also to every other singer in the world).

Note that some fans claim that his strained voice on that album was because of the different way the album was mixed and also because of the mixing and mastering which were done in a rushed way.
Click to expand...
You are not right, listen speechless, butterflies or you are my life. these songs has the most beautiful michael's voice i have ever heard! He takes highest notes!
 
It’s the jazz side of Michael Jackson. He takes something from many different genres, puts it all together. When a less gifted artist stirs the pot you get some tasteless drab but when MJ does it you get a 5 star meal.
 
SoCav said:
MJ is a rhythmic singer first and foremost, especially on his dance tracks, so timing almost always wins out over clarity. Moreover, he seems to care more about conveying emotion rather than getting his lyrics across.

Is there a better example than that ad-lib towards the end of TDCAU (you know the one I mean)? I doubt anyone knows what he's saying, but he's doing it in a staccato style, with a huge sense of urgency, and it sounds great. Personally I love it - I care more about feel than clarity too.

This reminds me of that classic Eddie Murphy impersonation of James Brown (who's exactly the same way and no doubt inspired MJ in this regard too):
:D
Click to expand...
I understand) but, why does he always cut edge of his lines? because he is not doing it in time? he literally skips the word "you" in every line of the bridge....
 
During Invincible his voice was still harsh from laryngitus, he sounds (mosty) a bit sedated and his pronunciation was affected by procedures on his upper lip, which makes it hard to pronounce some things like the 'W' for instance. And like you said I think he didn't care too much anymore, the whole album misses so many of his traditional background vocals, beatbox, hiccups etc.; looks like he just phoned in and sang the songs once and hung up

^IMHO^
 
Victorious said:
During Invincible his voice was still harsh from laryngitus, he sounds (mosty) a bit sedated and his pronunciation was affected by procedures on his upper lip, which makes it hard to pronounce some things like the 'W' for instance. And like you said I think he didn't care too much anymore, the whole album misses so many of his traditional background vocals, beatbox, hiccups etc.; looks like he just phoned in and sang the songs once and hung up

^IMHO^
Click to expand...

Victorious said:
Well mostly I do agree with you okay but I have one really interesting theory... first of all operation on his upper lip was completed in December 2001 and most part of invincible album was recorded from 1998 to 1999. From this point you're a opinion is not right okay it apparently breaks down, but if we do pretend that Heartbreaker was recorded after December 2001 then you're right but we don't know for sure. Secondly I do not agree that Michael didn't care too much about songs on Invincible album okay just if you listen you can hear that he is trying his best okay we can say that Invincible album is not pure Michael most part of this album features other musicians and we can listen, we can see their influence. All in al I'd Iike to say that in my opinion most songs from Invincible album made by Michael but he didn't give them his soul okay he had his own songs that he would like which he would like to complete like Hollywood tonight like the way you love me and so on and he just have a duty to complete this album. But there are a lot of really good songs okay so maybe a heartbreaker I was not a song that he was ready to give so in okay but songs like butterflies you're my life and heaven can wait are one of his favorites and he indeed was trying his best to complete them and make them sound really really good which he succeeded to do
Click to expand...
 
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mj_frenzy said:
Note that some fans claim that his strained voice on that album was because of the different way the album was mixed and also because of the mixing and mastering which were done in a rushed way.
Click to expand...
Those fans are wrong, because mixing and mastering can’t affect a singer’s voice in that way.

Controversially, I feel MJ’s vocal technique was downright poor. His “gritty voice,” phenomenal as it was, didn’t sound healthy. I suspect he did some extensive damage to his vocal cords during the Bad tour—there were a surprising number of shows postponed/canceled due to laryngitis, he sounded pretty rough during the final show, and his tone had shifted pretty dramatically on Dangerous. By the time Invincible dropped, he was really struggling to reach those high notes. I know age is unstoppable and he would’ve lost them regardless, but there are countless vocalists who retain most of that upper register, whereas MJ was seriously battling to get there.

Make no mistake, MJ still had one of the best voices of any recording artist. I just feel strongly that he didn’t take care of it as well as he should have, and as a result we have shameful performances like “Heaven Can Wait.”
 
AlwaysThere said:
Those fans are wrong, because mixing and mastering can’t affect a singer’s voice in that way.

Controversially, I feel MJ’s vocal technique was downright poor. His “gritty voice,” phenomenal as it was, didn’t sound healthy. I suspect he did some extensive damage to his vocal cords during the Bad tour—there were a surprising number of shows postponed/canceled due to laryngitis, he sounded pretty rough during the final show, and his tone had shifted pretty dramatically on Dangerous. By the time Invincible dropped, he was really struggling to reach those high notes. I know age is unstoppable and he would’ve lost them regardless, but there are countless vocalists who retain most of that upper register, whereas MJ was seriously battling to get there.

Make no mistake, MJ still had one of the best voices of any recording artist. I just feel strongly that he didn’t take care of it as well as he should have, and as a result we have shameful performances like “Heaven Can Wait.”
Click to expand...
WHAT? Heaven can wait is the beauriful song! Its really tender and lovely! You are not right
 
SoCav said:
Is there a better example than that ad-lib towards the end of TDCAU (you know the one I mean)? I doubt anyone knows what he's saying, but he's doing it in a staccato style, with a huge sense of urgency, and it sounds great. Personally I love it - I care more about feel than clarity too.
Click to expand...
You mean "don't you sit & watch just debate it" or "don't you say that I roCKED a baby"
"Don't you sit uh uh uh dababy"
Till this day... that line gets to me. I would've definitely asked him that in an interview 🤣
 
Richard76 said:
WHAT? Heaven can wait is the beauriful song! Its really tender and lovely! You are not right
Click to expand...
That song is very beautiful. But he is definitely straining very hard on the bridge. I honestly think he was going for a remember the time type of vocal but being older & etc...im not sure what the problem was. I noticed that particular part as a kid. I really wish he'd put more love into the Invincible sessions
 
I think Heartbreaker is a top 10 song for me personally =) I will NOT join in on the Invincible daily bashing that MJJCommunity has now taken apart of :rolleyes::cautious:I have a few issues with the track list but Heartbreaker (or Heaven Can Wait!!!) are NOT the issues.

It's funny how some here diss Heaven Can Wait, since its recently become MJ's trending songs among a younger generation.
 
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Richard76 said:
I noticed that in songs Heartbreaker and Invincible (but mostly in Heartbreaker), it is really hard to understand what Michael's saying. He's literally eating edges of almost every word 😂 he didn't finish them. Moreover he has really strange pronunciation, that's why i don't even understand some of the lyrics. For example, on chorus part, Michael's saying something on the background. And its really hard to understand whether its "oh no" or "come on" or "oh girl"😂 (if you don't believe me check it out on 1:56
) And I'm just wondering whether its because of Michael's specific style (he's cutting edges of words on purpose) or Michael didn't even cared and didn't tried to sing well.
Click to expand...
Expert in Jacksonese here, in 1:56 he's saying "Ooh, Doggone", same good old ad lib he used everywhere 🙂
(I haven't read any other post here so i'm sorry if someone already explained it, also the jacksonese part is obviously a joke lol)
 
NeoGardiV8 said:
Expert in Jacksonese here, in 1:56 he's saying "Ooh, Doggone", same good old ad lib he used everywhere 🙂
(I haven't read any other post here so i'm sorry if someone already explained it, also the jacksonese part is obviously a joke lol)
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doggone? what does it mean 😅
 
Richard76 said:
doggone? what does it mean 😅
Click to expand...
No idea! Dog gone, doggone, it's an ad lib MJ used to sing in a bunch of songs, and mainly in live performances, the ones i can recall right now though is that it was used pretty often on Billie Jean or Beat It performances.
 
AlwaysThere said:
Those fans are wrong, because mixing and mastering can’t affect a singer’s voice in that way.

Controversially, I feel MJ’s vocal technique was downright poor. His “gritty voice,” phenomenal as it was, didn’t sound healthy. I suspect he did some extensive damage to his vocal cords during the Bad tour—there were a surprising number of shows postponed/canceled due to laryngitis, he sounded pretty rough during the final show, and his tone had shifted pretty dramatically on Dangerous. By the time Invincible dropped, he was really struggling to reach those high notes. I know age is unstoppable and he would’ve lost them regardless, but there are countless vocalists who retain most of that upper register, whereas MJ was seriously battling to get there.

Make no mistake, MJ still had one of the best voices of any recording artist. I just feel strongly that he didn’t take care of it as well as he should have, and as a result we have shameful performances like “Heaven Can Wait.”
Click to expand...
But you described (elsewhere) the vocals of 'Heaven Can Wait' as wonderful:

"I have no problem with the boy band feel [of 'Heaven Can Wait'], and the vocals (as many of you have already mentioned) are wonderful"

So, you seem to contradict yourself about that.
Richard76 said:
WHAT? Heaven can wait is the beauriful song! Its really tender and lovely! You are not right
Click to expand...
'Heaven Can Wait' is an ordinary, overproduced, generic and saccharine song.

For that reason, it is more suitable for a boy band, rather than for a solo artist.

Actually, it was originally meant for the Blackstreet boy band (as revealed by Teddy Riley), but it ended up on Michael Jackson.
 
Victorious said:
Secondly, what not again? With what part of my opinion don't you agree, and why?
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The laryngitis part. By far it has become a myth in(some parts)of the fan community,and truth is that Michael barely even suffered from it during his lifetime.
Also, ''In most cases,(laryngitis)gets better without treatment in about a week.''(not an entire lifetime or an entire world tour aka History World Tour)
 
PurpleThriller said:
The laryngitis part. By far it has become a myth in(some parts)of the fan community,and truth is that Michael barely even suffered from it during his lifetime.
Also, ''In most cases,(laryngitis)gets better without treatment in about a week.''(not an entire lifetime or an entire world tour aka History World Tour)
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I did not know that, I used the word since everyone does to describe his raspy voice after the Dangerous Tour.
And in my opinion the raspy voice, the slurred speech, the lack of stamina and enthusiasm from medications, and and upper lip correction are what makes his vocals different on Invincible, instead of a specific style; to stay on topic
 
Victorious said:
I did not know that, I used the word since everyone does to describe his raspy voice after the Dangerous Tour.
And in my opinion the raspy voice, the slurred speech, the lack of stamina and enthusiasm from medications, and and upper lip correction are what makes his vocals different on Invincible, instead of a specific style; to stay on topic
Click to expand...
Oh,alright
 
PurpleThriller said:
The laryngitis part. By far it has become a myth in(some parts)of the fan community,and truth is that Michael barely even suffered from it during his lifetime.
Also, ''In most cases,(laryngitis)gets better without treatment in about a week.''(not an entire lifetime or an entire world tour aka History World Tour)
Click to expand...
Michael Jackson suffered from chronic laryngitis, which does not go away (with or without treatment) in about a week.

The starting point of that health problem was right after the end of his mammoth BAD Tour (in which he sang live for so many hours and for 2 years).

His chronic laryngitis, for example, forced him when he was in Istanbul (in 1992 for the Dangerous Tour) to cancel that concert and also the remaining concerts of that year in order to visit a throat specialist in Central London (on Harley Street).

His chronic laryngitis did not also allow him to perform in Greece in 1992 (he was taking medication at that time in order to prevent nodules from developing on his vocal cords).

His chronic laryngitis was again apparent during the entire HIStory Tour.

One has to simply listen to certain live parts from various HIStory concerts (for example, Sydney, Brunei, Munich, etc).
 
Richard76 said:
I noticed that in songs Heartbreaker and Invincible (but mostly in Heartbreaker), it is really hard to understand what Michael's saying. He's literally eating edges of almost every word 😂 he didn't finish them. Moreover he has really strange pronunciation, that's why i don't even understand some of the lyrics. For example, on chorus part, Michael's saying something on the background. And its really hard to understand whether its "oh no" or "come on" or "oh girl"😂 (if you don't believe me check it out on 1:56
) And I'm just wondering whether its because of Michael's specific style (he's cutting edges of words on purpose) or Michael didn't even cared and didn't tried to sing well.
Click to expand...
probably emotion got in the way , wouldnt say he didnt care for his art- i think every artists work are special, maybe like a new born child to them
Art is that precious, Not finishing words, i love that- Yeah one of the things i would be besotted with.... and that is emotional depth isn't it? That itself can come through in a variety of ways

.... thinking its just his style ...the feel of invincible is truly emotional and angerous. it feels good to say that.
he was always cutting up/ not finishing vocab in songs or speech , and he was making up words too. Gotta love that raw creative mindset.
 
mj_frenzy said:
Michael Jackson suffered from chronic laryngitis, which does not go away (with or without treatment) in about a week.

The starting point of that health problem was right after the end of his mammoth BAD Tour (in which he sang live for so many hours and for 2 years).

His chronic laryngitis, for example, forced him when he was in Istanbul (in 1992 for the Dangerous Tour) to cancel that concert and also the remaining concerts of that year in order to visit a throat specialist in Central London (on Harley Street).

His chronic laryngitis did not also allow him to perform in Greece in 1992 (he was taking medication at that time in order to prevent nodules from developing on his vocal cords).

His chronic laryngitis was again apparent during the entire HIStory Tour.

One has to simply listen to certain live parts from various HIStory concerts (for example, Sydney, Brunei, Munich, etc).
Click to expand...
''Chronic laryngitis develops more slowly, with symptoms lasting over 3 weeks.''(not one week,like in the case of acute laryngitis,but not for an entire tour either)
 
PurpleThriller said:
''Chronic laryngitis develops more slowly, with symptoms lasting over 3 weeks.''(not one week,like in the case of acute laryngitis,but not for an entire tour either)
Click to expand...
Note that in the case of Michael Jackson, his chronic laryngitis apparently kept being triggered also by his autoimmune diseases.

An autoimmune disease attacks healthy tissues (instead of protecting them) in one's body, including tissues located also in the throat/larynx.

Besides, the singer also confirmed his chronic laryngitis in 2001 (February) at a New York event, when he stepped onto the stage in order to announce that this health problem could not allow him to perform at that night.

Bear in mind also that chronic laryngitis can actually last for many years when one keeps abusing his/her voice (for example, by constant speaking, singing, etc).
 
mj_frenzy said:
Michael Jackson suffered from chronic laryngitis, which does not go away (with or without treatment) in about a week.

The starting point of that health problem was right after the end of his mammoth BAD Tour (in which he sang live for so many hours and for 2 years).

His chronic laryngitis, for example, forced him when he was in Istanbul (in 1992 for the Dangerous Tour) to cancel that concert and also the remaining concerts of that year in order to visit a throat specialist in Central London (on Harley Street).

His chronic laryngitis did not also allow him to perform in Greece in 1992 (he was taking medication at that time in order to prevent nodules from developing on his vocal cords).

His chronic laryngitis was again apparent during the entire HIStory Tour.

One has to simply listen to certain live parts from various HIStory concerts (for example, Sydney, Brunei, Munich, etc).
Click to expand...
From what I know, these are all the instances of Michael addressing his laryngitis:

According to this "Untouchable: The Strange Life and Tragic Death of Michael Jackson", he had ended the Destiny Tour with laryngitis.
books.google.com.au

Untouchable

Drawing on never-before-seen material, this definitive biography exposes the true extent of the Jackson family's dysfunctionality -- evidence of which is still in the public eye as they dispute the star's will Jackson was the most talented, richest, and most famous pop star on the planet. But...
books.google.com.au

Cancelling St. Louis concert near the very start of the 88 leg of the bad tour because of Laryngitis only to reinstate it and perform anyway.
apnews.com

Laryngitis Forces Singer to Skip Performance

ST. LOUIS (AP) _ Pop singer Michael Jackson canceled a performance at the 18,000-seat Arena, the second time in 72 hours illness forced him to skip a scheduled concert on his 13-city tour. ''It's been a tough past three days. Michael Jackson is not known as 'no- show,''' Arena manager...
apnews.com apnews.com

Complaining of laryngitis during a press conference in Bangkok while he was doing the HIStory Tour.

States he has laryngitis as to explain why he can't perform at Heal The Kids charity event.

When asked to sing during an interview, he states he can't and cites laryngitis as the reason for it.

Complained of laryngitis while rehearsing for This Is It on the final day of rehearsal (and his life).
www.latimes.com

Michael Jackson's last rehearsal: 'just beaming with gladness'

Michael Jackson's last rehearsal: 'just beaming with gladness'
www.latimes.com www.latimes.com
 
It's way easier to understand MJ in Invincible than it was in HIStory and Blood on the Dance Floor.
 
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