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The Discussion of MJ's Unreleased Tracks

So with the way MJ worked, wouldn't a demo with a chorus, but no verses be kinda strange? Like, isn't it probable that he did a scratch demo (even with just mumbling)?
The 'Men In Black' demo, but also something like 'Deep In The Night', seem to be made based on existing verse melodies imho
 
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Victorious said:
So with the way MJ worked, wouldn't a demo with a chorus, but no verses be kinda strange? Like, isn't it probable that he did a scratch demo (even with just mumbling)?
The 'Men In Black' demo, but also something like 'Deep In The Night', seem to be made based on existing vocal melodies imho
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Not at all. Per those who have heard and/or worked on these songs, the overwhelming majority of existing material only has chorus vocals. It’s possible that full scratch demos exist, but there are countless songs that never made it past the chorus.
 
Victorious said:
So with the way MJ worked, wouldn't a demo with a chorus, but no verses be kinda strange? Like, isn't it probable that he did a scratch demo (even with just mumbling)?
The 'Men In Black' demo, but also something like 'Deep In The Night', seem to be made based on existing vocal melodies imho
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This was standard for Michael. He said he would flesh out a full chorus and if he likes it, he will continue the song and if not, he'll scrap it. That's why a lot of his demos have a full chorus and mumbled verses
 
AlwaysThere said:
Not at all. Per those who have heard and/or worked on these songs, the overwhelming majority of existing material only has chorus vocals. It’s possible that full scratch demos exist, but there are countless songs that never made it past the chorus.
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Oh I see, thanx. Is that also the case with songs written by himself? Since I was under the impression he hummed/sung/beatboxed most of the track (and the music parts) almost immediately on tape
 
BlackAnon said:
This was standard for Michael. He said he would flesh out a full chorus and if he likes it, he will continue the song and if not, he'll scrap it. That's why a lot of his demos have a full chorus and mumbled verses
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Yeah I expected there would be at leat some mumbling verses around for songs like MIB and DITN
 
So slightly off topic but what would you all think the verses for 'Deep In The Night' have sounded like? Such a different demo, maybe something like 'Liberian Girl' or 'Monkey Business'?
 
Victorious said:
Yeah I expected there would be at leat some mumbling verses around for songs like MIB and DITN
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songs like Got the Hots, Days in Gloucestershire, Throwing Your Life Away, Cheater, Who Do You Know, Serious Effect......verses are mumbled but the chorus is there
 
Victorious said:
So slightly off topic but what would you all think the verses for 'Deep In The Night' have sounded like? Such a different demo, maybe something like 'Liberian Girl' or 'Monkey Business'?
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I always imagined the song having a "werewolf" theme if that makes sense lol. Maybe it would have a similar vibe to Thriller.
 
ChanceToDance said:
All of those except for DIG are vocally finished lol. TYLA has very little mumbling at certain parts but other than that it's vocally done.
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???? not sure what you're hearing in the songs but lyrically, those aren't complete and still contain mumbles.
 
Victorious said:
Oh I see, thanx. Is that also the case with songs written by himself? Since I was under the impression he hummed/sung/beatboxed most of the track (and the music parts) almost immediately on tape
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I think it was the general process for a fair percentage of what he recorded. He’d start with the background vocals and chorus harmonies, lay down a scratch vocal, enhance the production, then eventually contribute a lead. Of course some songs break from this standard, but that’s why you’re more likely to hear songs with full choruses and nothing else.
ChanceToDance said:
They do have lyrics, they're just hard to understand because of the way MJ sings or because they're LQ. Songs like Cheater, Got The Hots and Serious Effect are certainly vocally completed.
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I wouldn’t call “Serious Effect” complete. The verses aren’t fleshed out whatsoever, and it can’t just be in the delivery.
 
AlwaysThere said:
I wouldn’t call “Serious Effect” complete. The verses aren’t fleshed out whatsoever, and it can’t just be in the delivery.
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The song has a rap verse and those were done only when the song was pretty much developed, right? That probably means that what we hear is how it was meant to be. Maybe it's another reason why the song was shelved and was never brought back for another album.
 
Victorious said:
So slightly off topic but what would you all think the verses for 'Deep In The Night' have sounded like? Such a different demo, maybe something like 'Liberian Girl' or 'Monkey Business'?
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It has a rolling groove like The Way You Make Me Feel, but it's feel good and seems romantic. Maybe like taking someone out to show them a great time and leave their fear of the outside world.
 
ChanceToDance said:
The song has a rap verse and those were done only when the song was pretty much developed, right? That probably means that what we hear is how it was meant to be. Maybe it's another reason why the song was shelved and was never brought back for another album.
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“Jam” was only a scratch vocal when Heavy D contributed his raps. Same with LL Cool J turning in a verse for “Truth About Youth,” which apparently doesn’t have any MJ vocals at all. Brad Sundberg also once stated that most of the lead vocals for HIStory were done in the final few weeks of production (March 1995), meaning the rap verses from Shaq and the Notorious B.I.G. had to have been done in advance.

I don’t think the insertion of a rap followed any sort of rhyme or reason—they were done whenever the opportunity occurred.
 
ChanceToDance said:
They do have lyrics, they're just hard to understand because of the way MJ sings or because they're LQ. Songs like Cheater, Got The Hots and Serious Effect are certainly vocally completed.
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There are several clues in Cheater that suggest that it is not vocally complete. See for instance the bridge and the false start before it.
 
AlwaysThere said:
“Jam” was only a scratch vocal when Heavy D contributed his raps. Same with LL Cool J turning in a verse for “Truth About Youth,” which apparently doesn’t have any MJ vocals at all. Brad Sundberg also once stated that most of the lead vocals for HIStory were done in the final few weeks of production (March 1995), meaning the rap verses from Shaq and the Notorious B.I.G. had to have been done in advance.

I don’t think the insertion of a rap followed any sort of rhyme or reason—they were done whenever the opportunity occurred.
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I was thinking more about the Invincible demo when the song sounded the same as the released version apart from Fats not recording his verse and about Crack Kills which is vocally complete and is only missing Run DMC's rap verse. I completely forgot about those you mentioned lol.
 
ChanceToDance said:
I was thinking more about the Invincible demo when the song sounded the same as the released version apart from Fats not recording his verse and about Crack Kills which is vocally complete and is only missing Run DMC's rap verse. I completely forgot about those you mentioned lol.
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Didn’t Run DMC release their verse for Crack Kills on the Tougher Than Leather reissue- called “Crack (demo)”? Pretty sure that’s the same track that was worked on with MJ.
 
Hollywood_Tonight said:
Didn’t Run DMC release their verse for Crack Kills on the Tougher Than Leather reissue- called “Crack (demo)”? Pretty sure that’s the same track that was worked on with MJ.
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Quote from Run himself about the demo.

"We had only met with Michael for once. We had this crazy idea that reminded me of Force MC's (later became Force MD's) and Dot-A-Rock (Fantastic 5 & Cold Crush Brothers). It sounded like Flash on the beat box and the way Jesse D from the Force MC's would sing like Michael over a fly beat box."

It was never intended for Michael. Run-DMC never even wrote a rap because they were never able to meet again.
 
I'm really interested in Deep In The Night now the demo has leaked in HQ. The LQ didn't do a lot for me to be honest, but now you can hear the groove and make out the lyrics, I really like it.

It feels like a romantic groove. It's interesting that it was on a very early 1990 Dangerous tracklist written by Michael, clearly he likes the song

Hopefully there's a more fleshed out version of that and Man In Black
 
SmoothCriminal1995 said:
I'm really interested in Deep In The Night now the demo has leaked in HQ. The LQ didn't do a lot for me to be honest, but now you can hear the groove and make out the lyrics, I really like it.

It feels like a romantic groove. It's interesting that it was on a very early 1990 Dangerous tracklist written by Michael, clearly he likes the song

Hopefully there's a more fleshed out version of that and Man In Black
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Didn't Damien say that he saw a picture of another list MJ had written and Deep In The Night was written on there? (Could be misremembering this someone correct me if I'm wrong).
 
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