Where Invincible went wrong

It is relevant for your statement. Otherwise, why would you even bring up Dreams Away in the first place?
As an example, since it's a song that is not even released and still better than 'Don't Walk Away' (not saying I don't like it), which is on an album called 'Invincible' and that was what we were discussing if you had payed any attention
 
So I'm curious about those that love 'Invincible':

What's so good about it?
What do you mean with it being innovative?
What makes it as good as MJ's other albums?
What exactly makes it better than other MJ's albums?
Why makes you think the general public loved it at the time?
Do you believe the album could have been far more popular had there been more video clips?
Do you think those videos would be cool even with MJ looking like he looked at the time?
Do you think MJ was still popular among the general public?
 
As an example, since it's a song that is not even released and still better than 'Don't Walk Away' (not saying I don't like it), which is on an album called 'Invincible' and that was what we were discussing if you had payed any attention
The question is: How is it similar?
 
Also, what the fuss is this?:
Do you think those videos would be cool even with MJ looking like he looked at the time?
It just seems plain mean, the way you’ve worded that.
 
How about ban you for asking the same, already answered questions which aren't even relevant for the thread?
But you haven’t answered the question. You’ve just said that it isn’t relevant.
 
He never looked the same from one album to another. What’s your point?
This is about Invicible and why it was or wasn't as well received as the other albums, videos and appearance is (huge) part of that. So the question is, again; do you think any other possible videos, besides 'RMW', would be received well him looking like he did during 'Invincible' and if it would have had much effect on the album itself
 
No, you did not. But by all means, prove me wrong by referring to the post in which you have given the answer.
The proof is post #124: 'Down Tempo'

That's an answer. An unneccasary answer even since it's wasn't relevant to my post
 
He never looked the same from one album to another. What’s your point?
Image is everything.

By 2001 MJ was not looking his best , hence why his face was covered most of the video. He was 43 years old and past his prime.

That was his point.
 
Do you believe the album could have been far more popular had there been more video clips?
Do you think those videos would be cool even with MJ looking like he looked at the time?
Absolutely they would be far more popular with video clips. And literally any radio push.

MJ already went to Summer Jam with Jay Z looking like that and it was still awesome. And the crowd was still hype. So yes, he'd still find success. He always found success even when the critics would say there was none or actively lied and said he had none.
 
Question for the forum , is one entitled to express their opinion freely without the fear of being questioned to the point that they feel belittled and put down every time that they post?

For example, if I say MJ had a poor reputation in 2001 or that I think monkey business sucks.

Why should I then be questioned from a certain poster and made to provide evidence that supports my opinion?

We're all entitled to our opinion, if someone is not happy, say you disagree and move on.
 
I was in my twenties when Invincible came out, so maybe I can contribute some historical perspective.

When You Rock My World first came out, the reaction from fans was "this is very good, but the reason it's not as amazing as what we expected is because MJ never releases the best song as the first single". So the reaction was positive but not enthusiastic.

Same with the press. The media liked the new single, they felt it was a quality song, a prudent comeback. They liked that it wasn't another of MJ's tirades against paparazzis or how badly he was treated. it reminded them of the smooth R n' B from Off the Wall, so they liked it.

It went to number 10 in the charts, which is respectable but not amazing.

When the album came out, reaction from fans, again, was unenthusiastic contentment. It wasn't "what is this crap?". People liked it to a point, everybody had their favorites, but I remember that some of the most positive appreciations seemed to revolve around, again, things to come: "the songs will be even better when the videos come out!" With this project, it seems that "what was" would always be made better by "what is to come". I also remember that only a few lonely voices -- like mine -- would point out that MJ's songwriting credits throughout the album were almost certainly usurped. I think had fans understood back then that all of those songs were not self-penned, reaction would have been more negative.

Reviews were not, in a way, as scathing as with HIStory and BOTDF, because both of those albums contained what was seen as MJ's answers to his critics, so reviewers would answer in kind -- the music seemed to come second. But they were still mostly negative -- Rolling Stone giving the record 3 stars was as good as it got.

The album debuted at number one, but with sales that were not huge. It dropped off quickly.

The video for YRMW, again, was met with the same reaction as the rest of the project so far : "this is ok, a bit disappointing perhaps, but don't worry this is just the start, to remind the new generations of old-school MJ, the next video will be amazing".

The MSG was, in a weird way, the most successful part of the whole project -- despite it being chaotic and, on stage, a mostly lip-synched affair. Huge crowds showed up. Reviews were positive, with critics admitting that MJ's act was still a draw after all these years. Nobody picked up on the lip-synching. TV ratings were great.

After, the whole thing petered out. 9/11 happened, there were no more videos, no more singles, sales dropped off, and that was that.
 
The mods should create a separate section of the forum for you guys to argue in, then the rest of us won't have to look at it.
I don't know if it's still here, but years ago before the site was updated, there was private conversation. Where you would go to a person's profile and discuss what you want there.
 
The MSG was, in a weird way, the most successful part of the whole project -- despite it being chaotic and, on stage, a mostly lip-synched affair. Huge crowds showed up. Reviews were positive, with critics admitting that MJ's act was still a draw after all these years. Nobody picked up on the lip-synching. TV ratings were great.
I just remember there was a lot of talk about Whitney Houston being too skinny, more than any other kind of comments about the program.
 
I was in my twenties when Invincible came out, so maybe I can contribute some historical perspective.

When You Rock My World first came out, the reaction from fans was "this is very good, but the reason it's not as amazing as what we expected is because MJ never releases the best song as the first single". So the reaction was positive but not enthusiastic.

Same with the press. The media liked the new single, they felt it was a quality song, a prudent comeback. They liked that it wasn't another of MJ's tirades against paparazzis or how badly he was treated. it reminded them of the smooth R n' B from Off the Wall, so they liked it.

It went to number 10 in the charts, which is respectable but not amazing.

When the album came out, reaction from fans, again, was unenthusiastic contentment. It wasn't "what is this crap?". People liked it to a point, everybody had their favorites, but I remember that some of the most positive appreciations seemed to revolve around, again, things to come: "the songs will be even better when the videos come out!" With this project, it seems that "what was" would always be made better by "what is to come". I also remember that only a few lonely voices -- like mine -- would point out that MJ's songwriting credits throughout the album were almost certainly usurped. I think had fans understood back then that all of those songs were not self-penned, reaction would have been more negative.

Reviews were not, in a way, as scathing as with HIStory and BOTDF, because both of those albums contained what was seen as MJ's answers to his critics, so reviewers would answer in kind -- the music seemed to come second. But they were still mostly negative -- Rolling Stone giving the record 3 stars was as good as it got.

The album debuted at number one, but with sales that were not huge. It dropped off quickly.

The video for YRMW, again, was met with the same reaction as the rest of the project so far : "this is ok, a bit disappointing perhaps, but don't worry this is just the start, to remind the new generations of old-school MJ, the next video will be amazing".

The MSG was, in a weird way, the most successful part of the whole project -- despite it being chaotic and, on stage, a mostly lip-synched affair. Huge crowds showed up. Reviews were positive, with critics admitting that MJ's act was still a draw after all these years. Nobody picked up on the lip-synching. TV ratings were great.

After, the whole thing petered out. 9/11 happened, there were no more videos, no more singles, sales dropped off, and that was that.
Well I appreciate this. It's a pretty measured out take. Village Voice did give the record an A- though, I say that's the higher marks than Rolling Stone. They gave Madonna's persona way more grief, looking at reviews in the same time period.

Still, a pretty interesting recounting of things.
 
I enjoy not reading these comments while blasting the Invincible album.
It's a great album with such a unique modern yet timeless sound and masterful and dense lyrics.
His vocal delivery is also at its peak.
The songs don't have straight on the nose hooks but are way more subtle and complex.
It's an album that surely grows on you if only you give it a chance. Try listening to it in the car or at home with headphones.

I'm not saying you're not an MJ fan if you don't like Invincible, that would be stupid. But if you don't like Invincible maybe you are just too old or a type of person that wants to hear Thriller for the rest of their lives.
I'm so happy Michael was beyond that and kept evolving and embracing modern technology.
What I would give to hear his next album...
What a ridiculous and close minded take. The issue wasn’t Michael trying something different, it was his lackluster efforts.
 
What was lackluster?
Everything about the Invincible era. The album, everything from track selection, to vocals etc. The music videos, the performances (which he was heavily medicated for) his appearance, which was disheveled (and bloated from said meds.) Finally, his promotion, didn’t want to tour, didn’t want to do much of anything really but wanted to blame SONY for his failures with the album and play the race card which was ludicrous. I love Michael, I believe he is TRULY the best music act of all time but a spade is a spade and Michael was just plain wrong on all fronts for Invincible and one of the biggest reasons why it flopped, period!
 
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