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WE LOST THE G.O.A.T

Richard76

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"Michael envisioned creating a dance for Unbreakable that people would remember forever. He would be on the roof of a very tall building with scaffolding, held on the edge by some bandits, and then they would let him go. He would fall down like he was dead, but very slowly the parts of his body would join together and he would turn into fire - dancing in this fire from forest to forest, as the parts of his body reassembled" - Frank Casio.

I'm so freaking angry right now! Sony ruined everything! EVERETHING! We could get supposedly THE GREATEST videoclip, MJ had ever did! And just because this stupid Motola didn't want to give MJ stupid 8 millions, we lost everything...

Ok. Sorry for that sudden start. Recenlty I started to read the book "Making Michael: Inside the Career of Michael Jackson" and discovered so many breathtaking facts about MJ's work. Xspecially about my favourite Invincible album. It appears, that MJ had TREMENDOUS plans for video part of Invincible album. He was tired, that his arms had been bonded for the last few years (startin from History, he wasn't allowed to create videoclips fully as he wanted), that's why he wanted to change that in Invincible Era and make a lot of mini-films to promote album completely. Sony didn't believe in success of his plans and cutted it ALL. MJ didn't want to give up, so he was struggling for Unbreakable for TWO YEARS! He even hired a director Brad Ranther. But in the last moment Sony ruined everything. I just can't understand - why? Why this supid company didn't let him to create appropriate video, when he was plannig to do it on his OWN money? I'm so sorry for MJ. If he was fighting for that video SO LONG (and he was really too late, because by the time he was planning to start filming Unbreakable it was already half a year invincible album came out), then this video was really worth to be done! Remember song Billie Jean. In 80s QJ didn't really believe that song is good enough to be on album. And MJ always believed, this song is going to be G.O.A.T. And he was damn right! He kept fighting with QJ and eventually this song got in Thriller track list and became the most popular song in history! So Unbreakable could have get almost the same success! Michael was a genius! He knew, which songs worth to be bet on!

After all, I want to say, that Invincible could be MJ's best work. He had so many plans for it....Fire monster, appearing from fire pieces by pieces (Remember The Time and Big MJ robot from Moonwalker references?) in Unbreakable... Angel (or God), looking from the heaven in Whatever Happens... And another Michael's scary incarnation (Thriller, Ghosts reference) in Threatened... Three classy masterpieces! And all lost... Reality is so unfair...
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I thought Quincy Jones liked Bilie Jean but just didn't like the long intro..?
 
ChanceToDance said:
Maybe if MJ didn't blow up Sony's budget, delayed the album repeatedly and called the CEO of Sony a racist he could've made any clips he wanted. MJ was also to blame for his feud with Sony.
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but if he was a racist... you think MJ just had to take it? without consiquences? that's not right. Michael was the only person, who was right in this fight. He wanted to create something special, and Motola freak wanted to get a lot of money (ironically, he did EVERYTHING to get as little money as possible). That's a good exmaple, that bosses of big companies, DO NOT HAVE TO GET INVOLVED IN CREATNG PROCESS AT ALL. If you stupid scumbags want to earn some money, then give opportunity to finish material to PROFESSIONALS, like Michael
 
Also I want to add, that it's not the first time Michael's plans on music wasn't finished, but it was the first time, when consequences couldnt't be fixed. Starting from dangerous there begins musical problems. Firstly it was Dangerous song, that planned to be a single in 1993, but was canceled due to child accident. But eventually song became a legend and was added to TII. Then in History era, it was Smile song, that was planned to be a single with videoclip, and was canceled (because of stupid Sony ))) but a few Smile singles were released somehow. And in Invincible case, songs were in such shame treatment, that it eventually led to fatal consequences...
 
ChanceToDance said:
Maybe if MJ didn't blow up Sony's budget, delayed the album repeatedly and called the CEO of Sony a racist he could've made any clips he wanted. MJ was also to blame for his feud with Sony.
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Also he told them he was leaving, they weren't gonna coninue pumping money into his projects if he was gonna go to someone else.
 
SmoothGangsta said:
Also he told them he was leaving, they weren't gonna coninue pumping money into his projects if he was gonna go to someone else.
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Yes. I agree with you in that point. He had to lie them, that's everything is okay. And that he is going to continue working with them. But he was too innocent... He just couldn't lie. He was too kind
 
Tommy Mottola and MJ are both to blame for what transpired in 2001. If either party had been slightly more understanding and forgiving, the entire situation wouldnā€™t have happened.
 
I wouldn't believe a word that Casio say....

Who in the UK remembers Teletext? They had a showbiz section and one of the articles mentioned about MJ's new video and that Mel Gibson was due to star in it too...

Invincible was clearly a dud and MJ knew it, the whole Sony sucks campaign was a desperate attempt to put the blame on the record company.

The truth was that the album didn't do very well (in MJ terms) because the songs were just not good enough.
 
BuffaloBill87 said:
I wouldn't believe a word that Casio say....

Who in the UK remembers Teletext? They had a showbiz section and one of the articles mentioned about MJ's new video and that Mel Gibson was due to star in it too...

Invincible was clearly a dud and MJ knew it, the whole Sony sucks campaign was a desperate attempt to put the blame on the record company.

The truth was that the album didn't do very well (in MJ terms) because the songs were just not good enough.
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I think I agree, If MJ believed in that album surely he would have performed these songs instead of retreading to his old catalogue. He must have had some kind of writerā€™s block, he wrote 2 songs? Iā€™m not even sure.

His follow up album that never got released probably due to the Arvizo case looked much stronger. Those money hungry pricks robbed us of at least 2 albums with the false allegations.
 
One last thing, if Quincy did not believe in Billie Jean, I seriously question his musical knowledge šŸ˜œ
Imagine if he got his way. Thriller would likely not be the biggest album ever, we would not have had the iconic BJ choreography and wardrobe and MJ overall would simply not be as big as he was without BJ. If there is one song after IWYB that defined his career it is Billie Jean.
 
AlwaysThere said:
Tommy Mottola and MJ are both to blame for what transpired in 2001. If either party had been slightly more understanding and forgiving, the entire situation wouldnā€™t have happened.
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Michael Jackson was a KING. Tommy Motola was nobody, just idiot, running the company. He shall not get involved in creating process. I hope this animal will die in agony. He deserved that, after what he did to Unbreakable and Threatened
 
BuffaloBill87 said:
I wouldn't believe a word that Casio say....

Who in the UK remembers Teletext? They had a showbiz section and one of the articles mentioned about MJ's new video and that Mel Gibson was due to star in it too...

Invincible was clearly a dud and MJ knew it, the whole Sony sucks campaign was a desperate attempt to put the blame on the record company.

The truth was that the album didn't do very well (in MJ terms) because the songs were just not good enough.
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Cascio was telling the truth untill 2009. In 2009 he betrayed MJ for money
Invincible album was one of the best MJ works. Even Michael considered this album better than Thriller. Songs were not just good enough, they were perfect!
 
Richard76 said:
Cascio was telling the truth untill 2009. In 2009 he betrayed MJ for money
Invincible album was one of the best MJ works. Even Michael considered this album better than Thriller. Songs were not just good enough, they were perfect!
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Say what?
 
Richard76 said:
Cascio was telling the truth untill 2009. In 2009 he betrayed MJ for money
Invincible album was one of the best MJ works. Even Michael considered this album better than Thriller. Songs were not just good enough, they were perfect!
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Please find me the quote from Michael where he said Invincible was better than Thriller.

I'm very interested to hear this, unless he was simply trying to hype up the album, there's no chance in hell he thought that!
 
BuffaloBill87 said:
Please find me the quote from Michael where he said Invincible was better than Thriller.

I'm very interested to hear this, unless he was simply trying to hype up the album, there's no chance he thought that!
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ā€œInvincible is just as good or better than Thriller, in my true, humble opinion. It has more to offer. Music is what lives and lasts. Invincible has been a great success. When The Nutcracker Suite was first introduced to the world, it totally bombed. Whatā€™s important is how the story ends.ā€

ā€œI never think about themes,ā€ he revealed. ā€œI let the music create itself. I like it to be a potpourri of all kinds of sounds, all kinds of colors, something for everybody, from the farmer in Ireland to the lady who scrubs toilets in Harlem.ā€

www.cheatsheet.com

Michael Jackson Called This Album 'Just as Good or Better Than' 'Thriller'

Michael Jackson said 'Thriller' cast a shadow over his career. He said one of his other albums was just as good or better than 'Thriller.'
www.cheatsheet.com www.cheatsheet.com


It's very well documented MJ did speak highly of Invincible.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
ā€œInvincible is just as good or better than Thriller, in my true, humble opinion. It has more to offer. Music is what lives and lasts. Invincible has been a great success. When The Nutcracker Suite was first introduced to the world, it totally bombed. Whatā€™s important is how the story ends.ā€

ā€œI never think about themes,ā€ he revealed. ā€œI let the music create itself. I like it to be a potpourri of all kinds of sounds, all kinds of colors, something for everybody, from the farmer in Ireland to the lady who scrubs toilets in Harlem.ā€

www.cheatsheet.com

Michael Jackson Called This Album 'Just as Good or Better Than' 'Thriller'

Michael Jackson said 'Thriller' cast a shadow over his career. He said one of his other albums was just as good or better than 'Thriller.'
www.cheatsheet.com www.cheatsheet.com


It's very well documented MJ did speak highly of Invincible.
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Thanks for sharing that.

I mean he's not gonna come out saying , don't buy Invincible, it sucks in comparison to my earlier work.

It's all about building hype to sell the album.
 
Richard76 said:
Michael Jackson was a KING. Tommy Motola was nobody, just idiot, running the company. He shall not get involved in creating process. I hope this animal will die in agony. He deserved that, after what he did to Unbreakable and Threatened
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Michael demanded Sony spend millions on recording sessions he scarcely attended, kept delaying the release without notice, refused to tour or do any public performances, and expected them to fulfill multi-million dollar short film budgets without question or suggestion, then cried racism when they said no.

Sony acted terribly, no question. But Michael was no saint.
 
BuffaloBill87 said:
Thanks for sharing that.

I mean he's not gonna come out saying , don't buy Invincible, it sucks in comparison to my earlier work.

It's all about building hype to sell the album.
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This is the same MJ who cried after Motown 25. I don't think he was that shy about saying if he wasn't satisfied with something. Maybe he changed.

Anyway, he said this years after Invincible came out. So the hype didn't matter at all. People obviously can't stop saying they love it so much, 8th thread about it so far.... When are we going to get tired of this song and dance? Like what you like, don't. Etcetera.
 
AlwaysThere said:
Michael demanded Sony spend millions on recording sessions he scarcely attended, kept delaying the release without notice, refused to tour or do any public performances, and expected them to fulfill multi-million dollar short film budgets without question or suggestion, then cried racism when they said no.

Sony acted terribly, no question. But Michael was no saint.
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Tbf, he did all the same stuff with every other record. Refusing to tour, maybe so, but otherwise.
 
BuffaloBill87 said:
Please find me the quote from Michael where he said Invincible was better than Thriller.

I'm very interested to hear this, unless he was simply trying to hype up the album, there's no chance in hell he thought that!
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"Invincible is my best album" - Michael Jackson
 
Really a lot of missed opportunities. Now the clip Unbreakable lives in my head, trying to imagine it.

Love Invincible, didn't hear it until 2021. It seemed so modern and original to me. Recently ordered the album on CD, I want to compare it with the digital sound.
 
Guys, after all I want to say, that we have to keep fighting for Invincible album! If we just accept, that Invincible album was nothing, we will automatically betray Michael's wish and accept that Motola won in their confrontation! We have to respects for Invincible album for honour of Michael. Michael Jackson once said "Great art never dies" - that is the main slogan for Invincible album story. We just have to assemble and pay repects to this precious album. Not just for us, but for Michael:)
 
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