The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and Other Theories

[The MJJ Library]

It's interesting that people are so quick to judge and say that hoaxers have no evidence and are crazy, but when you then give a snippet of the evidence, it's crickets.... Where are the debunkers I wonder?

Tbh in the end it is speculation, there really isn't any definitive proof he's alive. People can believe what they think and still might think he's dead even if they saw your evidence. I showed it to some friends and they said none of the evidence made sense and it didn't lead to anything. If they think you are crazy, that's there opinion, just stroll along. Not everything is what it seems.

 

[Hamburglar]

Tbh in the end it is speculation, there really isn't any definitive proof he's alive. People can believe what they think and still might think he's dead even if they saw your evidence. I showed it to some friends and they said none of the evidence made sense and it didn't lead to anything. If they think you are crazy, that's there opinion, just stroll along. Not everything is what it seems.

By your reasoning it's just as much (or more) speculation that he died on June 25th, 2009. Yet it is only the hoaxers who are being called crazy without arguments, not the other way around. Of course there is no PROOF, the only proof would be Michael in the flesh telling the world (and even then I do believe some will say it's not him), but there is more evidence of him being alive than dead. And yes, everyone can believe whatever they wish. But don't call the other side crazy without doing your own investigation.

 

[The MJJ Library]

By your reasoning it's just as much (or more) speculation that he died on June 25th, 2009. Yet it is only the hoaxers who are being called crazy without arguments, not the other way around. Of course there is no PROOF, the only proof would be Michael in the flesh telling the world (and even then I do believe some will say it's not him), but there is more evidence of him being alive than dead. And yes, everyone can believe whatever they wish. But don't call the other side crazy without doing your own investigation.

Oops I meant evidence not proof, they don't think the evidence makes sense.

 

[SoS]

Oops I meant evidence not proof, they don't think the evidence makes sense.

This level of analysis would potentially make this topic potentially endlessly interesting but no one ever takes any questions to tackle one at a time..first point then second etc.

….no sound points tend to get offerred up.

I applaud one person who pointed out the statement Murray made was audibly misunderstood…
…
where it sounds like Murray said. “it wasn’t the same person on the bed” when he came back from the bathroom but it was cleared up that the combination of his thick accent and his fast speed of pronunciation makes it sound like that only at first blush

He actually says, “he wasn’t in the same position” NOT “it wasn’t the same person “.

Would you mind giving a new example or explain what you mean?

 

[Hamburglar]

This level of analysis would potentially make this topic potentially endlessly interesting but no one ever takes any questions to tackle one at a time..first point then second etc.

….no sound points tend to get offerred up.

I applaud one person who pointed out the statement Murray made was audibly misunderstood…
…
where it sounds like Murray said. “it wasn’t the same person on the bed” when he came back from the bathroom but it was cleared up that the combination of his thick accent and his fast speed of pronunciation makes it sound like that only at first blush

He actually says, “he wasn’t in the same position” NOT “it wasn’t the same person “.

Would you mind giving a new example or explain what you mean?

I know someone else said it but you mention it so I will reply to you:

If you listen to the whole part at Dr. Oz, he indeed says he was in a different position FIRST (heavy accent maybe, but clearly understood). It is what he says after that, where he clearly says 'It wasn't the same person I saw'. So Murray is saying that Michael was in the bed, all was good or 'safe' to leave as he says and Michael was not on Propofol at all, according to Murray. Then he came back and saw a different person on the bed in a different position. Even the YouTube subtitles hear that:

But yes, stuff like this makes it interesting because I did go back and listen again, but it's very clear what he says there.

 

[SoS]

Oops I meant evidence not proof, they don't think the evidence makes sense.

Again I ask, (if you or anyone) can someone list them that don’t make sense? Let’s take them one by one.

Well we already got one cleared up as “making sense” afterall and that’s what Murray said he saw when he came back.

Let’s take them all apart the same way, one by one: (someone add a “hoax perspective” “evidence” that doesn’t make sense,)

let’s pick it apart. That’s what this thread is for imho. Someone go first with a “evidence” point that makes no sense?

This oughta be interesting!

Thanks Hamburglar for making my question and the clarification make sense.

Let’s keep it going Guyz….

Name what doesn’t make sense and why

 

[otorten]

Hi! Is it allowed to discuss hoax versions of Pearl Jr here? Errors or inconsistencies in her statements?

 

[wendijane]

Hi! Is it allowed to discuss hoax versions of Pearl Jr here? Errors or inconsistencies in her statements?

I think so. Anything within reason I think.

 

[SoS]

Hi! Is it allowed to discuss hoax versions of Pearl Jr here? Errors or inconsistencies in her statements?

I think it’s perfect for this thread topic.

I would caution people to refrain from the knee-jerk name calling of Pearl Jr or anyone.

It should be just as easy to express disagreement without immaturity or disrespect.

I say we go for it

I will start by commenting on her “investigative journalist” value system because I find her to be imbalanced in her “reporting” as an “expert” on all things MJ for example, when it comes to the more complex matters of the “hoax” such as legal matters she dismissively refers people to watch (wade through) all her old videos to find out things like about MJ being both the Trustor? and Trustee? of his estate?

At same time, she gets detail -oriented and animated anew, rattling eagerly on and on about how she’s absolutely sure that she’s absolutely correct that Brandon Howard is MJ & MH’s son-

- something having absolutely nothing to do with Michael’s “death” or “aliveness” what.so.ever.

I take everything she says with a grain of salt except what she shows in the form of documentation.

Her opinions are too important to her, for my comfort level as I feel a journalist by definition should be more objective, than opinionated

And they should keep it relevant

and since she is a “MJ fan”, should be more interactive and get continuous input from fans rather than taking the “expert” position

Imho there are too many little “unprofessionalisms” that make her seem “silly-minded”to me, and fake like when she pretends to see if anyone has any questions…”any questions lemme see here nope no questions okay bye guyyyyyz” just so annoying and unnecessary for her to be dismissive of fans.

I do appreciate the documents she’s dug up, the support of Michael’s innocence she has provided and her tenacity.

My first impression of her was, opportunist

I’d like to hear what others think

 

[otorten]

Pearl made a movie, where she talks about cryonics. Well, cryonics to me sounds as a very very bizarre business... but anyway, why not to study what it is about. They take all liquid, including blood, and put special mix of antifreeze. If, as she claims, the body that went to autopsy was a cryonic patient, then how on earth they put back all the blood with drugs in it? I didn't find anything that tells cryonics business knows how to put blood back to the body... also she put Russian cryonic group in the movie, but it's next to impossible to find a black anorexic man with vitiligo in Russia, I think... if cryonics is a dark business, maybe then everything is possible.

 

[otorten]

Yes, she is an opportunist, maybe at this stage an entertainer in some way.

 

[Hamburglar]

Pearl Jr. is nasty and a moron. That is what I think. Oh and rumor has it she sued Michael over something for around 100K and has sent him nudes in the past. I bet she was in Neverland's 'Hall of Shame'.

 

[The MJJ Library]

Pearl Jr. is nasty and a moron. That is what I think. Oh and rumor has it she sued Michael over something for around 100K and has sent him nudes in the past. I bet she was in Neverland's 'Hall of Shame'.

What a fan.....(not)

 

[wendijane]

Pearl made a movie, where she talks about cryonics. Well, cryonics to me sounds as a very very bizarre business... but anyway, why not to study what it is about. They take all liquid, including blood, and put special mix of antifreeze. If, as she claims, the body that went to autopsy was a cryonic patient, then how on earth they put back all the blood with drugs in it? I didn't find anything that tells cryonics business knows how to put blood back to the body... also she put Russian cryonic group in the movie, but it's next to impossible to find a black anorexic man with vitiligo in Russia, I think... if cryonics is a dark business, maybe then everything is possible.

That stuff terrifies me well i think there is some truth in it though

 

[Hamburglar]

That stuff terrifies me well i think there is some truth in it though

The cryogenics theory is pure idiocy, just look really into it, makes zero sense.

 

[otorten]

I understand that not everyone likes her. I don't want to discuss her personality, but her theory. Her theory is interesting, explains amounts of propofol, which experts couldn't explain.

 

[wendijane]

Well i try to keep all options open because the business in itself isn't exactly straight forward.

 

[otorten]

I heard/read several experts saying that this amount of propofol was given to already dead body...at some point the dosage reached its deadly point, but propofol continued coming... it doesn't make sense for anyone who wants to kill, because they already killed.

 

[otorten]

I personally don't know anaesthesia experts who could dive into this subject, but what is available in internet makes things confused cryonics explain it

 

[Hamburglar]

I personally don't know anaesthesia experts who could dive into this subject, but what is available in internet makes things confused cryonics explain it

No it doesn't. Blood + whatever drugs was in the blood that killed that body is taken OUT and replaced with a special liquid. Pearl's theory makes zero sense. In fact, it's laughable. Keeping options open is good, unless it's options that are proven to have been debunked or when they are insane.

Fact Checking Pearl Jr. - Part 2 (Cryogenic Body Double)

Pearl 'facts' about Michael using a cryogenic body double. Music: Spice 1 - Haterz nightmare #pearljr #cryogenics #michaeljackson

rumble.com

Fact Checking Pearl Jr. - Part 3 (Pearl is mad - The frozen body again)

Let's explain it one more time! (extra upload because previous one is blocked in the United States) Music: Spice 1 - Street General #pearljr #cryogenics #michaeljackson

rumble.com

Pearl makes up shit for views. She even created a fake Michael Jackson to fool people. So besides her theories, there is indeed a lot wrong with her personality.

 

[Oldtimer]

No it doesn't. Blood + whatever drugs was in the blood that killed that body is taken OUT and replaced with a special liquid. Pearl's theory makes zero sense. In fact, it's laughable. Keeping options open is good, unless it's options that are proven to have been debunked or when they are insane.

Fact Checking Pearl Jr. - Part 2 (Cryogenic Body Double)

Pearl 'facts' about Michael using a cryogenic body double. Music: Spice 1 - Haterz nightmare #pearljr #cryogenics #michaeljackson

rumble.com

Fact Checking Pearl Jr. - Part 3 (Pearl is mad - The frozen body again)

Let's explain it one more time! (extra upload because previous one is blocked in the United States) Music: Spice 1 - Street General #pearljr #cryogenics #michaeljackson

rumble.com

Pearl makes up shit for views. She even created a fake Michael Jackson to fool people. So besides her theories, there is indeed a lot wrong with her personality.

She's very disrespectful

 

[Hamburglar]

She's very disrespectful

That is quite an understatement.

 

[otorten]

What I am imagining is that it was not a real cryonic body, but what if some cryonic group had access to hospital data, found a person in coma with the needed features and approached the family to make a deal... it's totally imaginary, if course. But as a theory and considering how little we know about cryonic business - wouldn't this work?

 

[Hamburglar]

What I am imagining is that it was not a real cryonic body, but what if some cryonic group had access to hospital data, found a person in coma with the needed features and approached the family to make a deal... it's totally imaginary, if course. But as a theory and considering how little we know about cryonic business - wouldn't this work?

Why would you need the tiny, elite database of a cryogenics facility when you're in LA and IF you'd need a dead body, the morgue is literally flooded with unclaimed ones?

 

[otorten]

Why would you need the tiny, elite database of a cryogenics facility when you're in LA and IF you'd need a dead body, the morgue is literally flooded with unclaimed ones?

They (cryogenics) are quiet, for example? Easy to agree and keep everything settled? Idk, of course, just imagining...

 

[otorten]

Cryogenics need to sell their business, so they must be in contact with hospitals to reach potential clients... this (providing needed bodies) would make them more money than the real cryogenic business

 

[Hamburglar]

Cryogenics need to sell their business, so they must be in contact with hospitals to reach potential clients... this (providing needed bodies) would make them more money than the real cryogenic business

They are only in contact with hospitals when they get a call that one of their elite and rich clients is about to kick the bucket. Unless you are suggesting some dodgy side business of the cryonics facility in the trade of dead bodies? Yeah, that would make it even more far fetched.

 

[otorten]

They are only in contact with hospitals when they get a call that one of their elite and rich clients is about to kick the bucket. Unless you are suggesting some dodgy side business of the cryonics facility in the trade of dead bodies? Yeah, that would make it even more far fetched.

I watched the videos. I doubt the body was cryogenic, of course - it has blood, urine. I have my thoughts about possible dark side of cryogenic business, it's just on the surface that they can provide bodies... I don't know if they actually do. But how do you explain levels of propofol? And why there is no data about the brain in that autopsy report?

 

[Hamburglar]

I watched the videos. I doubt the body was cryogenic, of course - it has blood, urine. I have my thoughts about possible dark side of cryogenic business, it's just on the surface that they can provide bodies... I don't know if they actually do. But how do you explain levels of propofol? And why there is no data about the brain in that autopsy report?

Oh I don't know about any dark side of cryogenics. That is possible but irrelevant to the hoax in my opinion since this was clearly not a cryo body.

You have to assume that there actually was an autopsy performed on someone, which in my opinion is not a given when you look at the inconsistencies. The body was identified by Michael's driver's license (his number at least) yet the name does not match the driver's license since we know his DL has 'Joe' listed as his middle name, not Joseph. Then the height and hair color are way off as well, so some shady shit is going on there. Also, we do not get to see the name of his mother, something that would be totally insane to redact since the whole world knows who his mother is. So the autopsy report is, in my opinion, fake. A prop. Just like the death certificate, the will, the trust, and even the Murray trial. You don't have to be a lawyer to know that this whole trial didn't make sense when you watched the whole thing and that there was tempering with evidence. Then we also can't find Murray's booking in the jail system and we can not find Michael's case report in the coroner's system. All those little things tell me none of it was ever real, even though most people involved probably believed it was. Why didn't the medical examiner who performed the autopsy and signed the death certificate testify in court? There is too many questions, and no reasonable answers. Do I believe there was a body? Yes I do. I think someone who was terminally ill died there (not sure if that was on June 25th or before) but without an actual body too many people need to be 'in on it'. But it would explain the stories of the people working on the body that it didn't look like Michael Jackson and that it seemed to be a hospice patient. For the actual levels of propofol found I'd have to consult with a friend who is a doctor and actually listen to the exact testimonies again to see if there would even be a logical explanation or if it's entirely fabricated. The other drugs found and the bills for all the rented medical equipment tells me someone there died of either cancer or maybe AIDS, but that person certainly couldn't have been rehearsing the night before.

But I will listen to the testimonies again (it's been 12 years so not very fresh in my memory anymore) and I will report back.

 

[BadOneForever]

Re: The hoax site...



Obviously you did not understand me. There is nothing more in this world I want; those evil people that hurted Michael should pay. A LOT of ppl who have hurt Michael so much are living like nothing happened. All those horrible acusations...the trial..and so on.
And besides, I have a right to my own feelings and hopes. I said it"s my way of dealing with the pain sometimes.
For example, if you said that you belive that Michael is alive....who am I to judge you ?
If there is something I could do to help put his killers in prison for life, belive me, I would.

I’m reading “ppl who killed” and “killers” I’m new here, can we further discuss who we all believe these “people” to be, because I have suspicions of a lot of individuals and believe everyone was strategically place to carry this out. It’s been 14 years and I cannot get over how Murray did less then 2 years for unaliving MICHAEL JACKSON and how everyone else are going along smiling as if it didn’t happen. How Sony immediately bought back his catalogue, how the estate is trying to sale MJs catalogue. In my humble opinion MJ would never agree to that. I believe more people than anyone would expect conspired to do this to our Michael. I didn’t start my research for the truth until this year.