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The Discussion of MJ's Unreleased Tracks

Victorious said:
Hmm I think 'Work That Body' could be pretty fun track if it's reworked with a hard-hitting NJS-beat, but 'Serious Effect'..? It lacks a proper chorus imo and that is hard to work with
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It's pretty catchy to me. It's a rap hook, not a pop hook.
 
Derek1984 said:
It's just bizarre that there was all this hype of Buffalo Bill before the album was released (by the media and MJ himself) and then at last second, it got pulled; for most likely Be Not Always.
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And, more interestingly, we don't know if BB was ever seriously considered for the Bad album or not. Given the hype and praise, it should have made the Bad album.
 
Fuzball said:
And, more interestingly, we don't know if BB was ever seriously considered for the Bad album or not. Given the hype and praise, it should have made the Bad album.
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BB must be close to completion. I wonder if we haven't got it yet because the brothers have vocals on it and that complicates a release by the Estate.
 
Derek1984 said:
BB must be close to completion. I wonder if we haven't got it yet because the brothers have vocals on it and that complicates a release by the Estate.
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Has anybody asked the Jackson bros about BB, or Victory outtakes in general?
 
Another theory (aka assumption) - perhaps MJ was intrigued with the 'outlaw' theme, as it were, and that morphed from gunslinger Buffalo Bill to mobster Al Capone. Could be that the concept stuck but the figure changed to match his taste or the persona he wished to assume for the track. I'm sure many would agree that Capone with a machine gun seems more "Bad" than Bill with a six shooter.
 
I've always assumed that Buffalo Bill was too good for Victory in Michael's eyes, but like everyone has said, it probably didn't fit on Bad sonically or lyrically.

Out of all the songs we only know the titles of, Buffalo Bill is my most anticipated. No way it was hyped up pre Victory by the press and Michael himself and its a dud
 
SmoothCriminal1995 said:
I've always assumed that Buffalo Bill was too good for Victory in Michael's eyes, but like everyone has said, it probably didn't fit on Bad sonically or lyrically.

Out of all the songs we only know the titles of, Buffalo Bill is my most anticipated. No way it was hyped up pre Victory by the press and Michael himself and its a dud
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I've said Michael held off including his best work on Victory and Liberian Girl and Buffalo Bill were too good to put on a Jacksons album so instead he provided a pre Off the Wall song and a Thriller outtake
 
Fuzball said:
Barnes probably didn't know if MJ did record new vocals with Bruce in 1984.
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Right. MJ probably worked on BB after John Barnes last worked on it. Vocals by the brothers may have been added after Barnes last worked on it. Bruce might have a mix that was ready to have been put on the album.

Bill Bottrell also knows about BB. Whether he worked on it or just heard it in the studio, I don't think we have confirmation on that. But I think what we can gather with the info we have, this must be very close to completion. It's releasable.
 
Derek1984 said:
Right. MJ probably worked on BB after John Barnes last worked on it. Vocals by the brothers may have been added after Barnes last worked on it. Bruce might have a mix that was ready to have been put on the album.

Bill Bottrell also knows about BB. Whether he worked on it or just heard it in the studio, I don't think we have confirmation on that. But I think what we can gather with the info we have, this must be very close to completion. It's releasable.
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According to John van Nest, Bruce came over to his studio "Image Recorders" to record two songs with Michael for the Victory album.

BNA was recorded at Image Recorders, SoS at Westlake Studios. The mysterious second song was probably BB.



edit:
Bill Bottrell on gearspace:

We did mess around with «Buffalo Bill». It was a heavy John Barnes influence, and the cool chorus:
Who shot Buffalo Bill?
They said he shot alot did he ever get killed?




John van Nest on gearspace:

Bruce Swedien came back to Image Recording to record a song (or two?) for the Jackson's "Victory" record in about 1983. Another great experience, as Bruce did (as I recall) a string quartet and (perhaps) Michael's vocal at the same time. Bruce IS the best of all time, by the way. BEST.
 
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Bill Bottrell on gearspace:

We did mess around with «Buffalo Bill». It was a heavy John Barnes influence, and the cool chorus:
Who shot Buffalo Bill?
They said he shot alot did he ever get killed?



John van Nest on gearspace:

Bruce Swedien came back to Image Recording to record a song (or two?) for the Jackson's "Victory" record in about 1983. Another great experience, as Bruce did (as I recall) a string quartet and (perhaps) Michael's vocal at the same time. Bruce IS the best of all time, by the way. BEST.
 
Fuzball said:
Bill Bottrell on gearspace:

We did mess around with «Buffalo Bill». It was a heavy John Barnes influence, and the cool chorus:
Who shot Buffalo Bill?
They said he shot alot did he ever get killed?



John van Nest on gearspace:

Bruce Swedien came back to Image Recording to record a song (or two?) for the Jackson's "Victory" record in about 1983. Another great experience, as Bruce did (as I recall) a string quartet and (perhaps) Michael's vocal at the same time. Bruce IS the best of all time, by the way. BEST.
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Yep, and I was the person that asked Bill Bottrell on gearspace. That was probably back in 2009 when MJ died. Even back then I was trying to find out more about Buffalo Bill.
 
FlyAway0086 said:
What are y'all's picks for the "holy grail" unreleased track, now that Chicago 1945 has been out a while ?
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My personal pick would be Saturday Woman: very little is known about it, but based on the alleged snippets of it circulating around, it sounds like a Teddy Riley-produced banger akin to Remember The Time. I’m also interested in hearing Dream Away, Ghost of Another Lover, Monster, and Rocker.
 
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FlyAway0086 said:
Another theory (aka assumption) - perhaps MJ was intrigued with the 'outlaw' theme, as it were, and that morphed from gunslinger Buffalo Bill to mobster Al Capone. Could be that the concept stuck but the figure changed to match his taste or the persona he wished to assume for the track. I'm sure many would agree that Capone with a machine gun seems more "Bad" than Bill with a six shooter
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I posted a similar theory here a couple of years ago: (but people who said they heard BB said it sounded different)


"I thought the song 'Buffalo Bill' might be a early version of 'Al Capone', 'Chicago 1945' or 'Smooth Criminal' because the lyrics 'Who shot Buffalo Bill? They said shot a lot, did I ever get killed?' fitted the theme of an historical figure, and in my head it also kinda matched with the music of chorus of Al Capone' and similar theme of 'Smooth Criminal'. So then Buffalo Bill was 'sorta' replaced by Buffalo Bill for Bad"
 
Gluepix said:
My personal pick would be Saturday Woman: very little is known about it, but based on the alleged snippets of it circulating around, it sounds like a Teddy Riley-produced banger akin to Remember The Time. I’m also interested in hearing Dream Away, Ghost of Another Lover, Monster, and Rocker.
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I love the Saturday Woman snippet too, the housey sound would have been very welcome at the time of Dangerous. I had many discussions on the validity of that snippet though.. Most people seem to think it's fake. To me it sounds very authentic though (also no one could point out what song would have been used to create a fake)
 
BlackAnon said:
Could be but John was around more than a lot Michaels core team. I'm certain the demo exists but incomplete vocals or rough vocals I should say
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Even if there are rough vocals, Bottrell has confirmed the complete chorus. Which in my mind, based on the little info we do have, a complete chorus makes it at least in a releasable state.

Even Frank Dileo mentions the song in Rolling Stone. My guess is there is more than rough vocals on it.
 
From Joe Vogel's book:

According to Bruce Swedien, it had “a big symphonic opening and a charming melody.” Matt Forger describes it as “an amazing song” that never quite came together. “It went through such contortions and changes and green writes and variations.” The track was inspired by Wild Bill Hickok, a poker player who was shot in the back and became a dime-novel hero. “Buffalo Bill” remains unreleased.
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Fuzball said:
From Joe Vogel's book:
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That's incorrect. The track was inspired by William Cody. MJ even says so himself in the unauthorized interview at Hayvenhurst in 1983. And to go even further, William Cody is buried in Colorado, where I think MJ visited in 1984.

Either Joe Vogel did no research, or some producer gave him the wrong information.
 
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