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The Discussion of MJ's Unreleased Tracks

Derek1984 said:
We don't know how it sounded for Off The Wall but it should've made that album. The only thing I can think of, is they didn't want another uptempo disco sounding track. But it should've made that album. Could've replaced Girlfriend or It's The Falling In Love.

IMO, it's the Hot Street of Off The Wall. Uptempo disco that ended up not making it.
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I still don’t believe it was made for Off the Wall. The little info we know about it doesn’t add up. I’m still of the mindset that it’s no older than 1980-81.
 
Fuzball said:
Had the Bad album been strictly MJ-penned songs only, and WATW not released as a charity single, I believe WATW would've made the album.
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If we got a fully written and produced MJ album with Quincy only co-producing [basically giving his opinion], I wonder what songs would we have gotten in place of MITM and JGF
 
BlackAnon said:
If we got a fully written and produced MJ album with Quincy only co-producing [basically giving his opinion], I wonder what songs would we have gotten in place of MITM and JGF
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Good question.

As of today, we still don't have any details on
  • California Grass
  • Children's Hout
  • Cry
  • Lonely Bird
  • Lama Lola
  • Lonely Man
  • I Forgive You
  • I Have This Love of Me
  • In the Valley
  • People Have to Make Some Kind of Joke
  • Red Eye
  • She's Not a Girl
  • Sister Sue
  • Tragedy of a Cheerleader
  • Why Shy
  • Who's the Girl with the Hair Down
  • You're a Liar
^ some of these could have been demoed for Bad
 
AlwaysThere said:
If I’m not mistaken, MJ said “She’s Not a Girl” exists in demo form and was recorded at Hayvenhurst. Not much, but something.
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Did mention its year or for what album it was intended? It's been a while since I've watched the entire deposition.
 
JamesCMJJ said:
Still shocking...more unheard material. albeit, just a different version
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If you think about it there's enough of those kinds of songs that are enough to fill up almost 2 albums:

Don't Be Messin' Round (Thriller Demo)
Don't Be Messin' (Dangerous Demo)
Don't Be Messin' (2000's rework)
Little Susie (1979 Demo)
Sunset Driver (1986 Demo)
Beautiful Girl (2005-2009 Rework)
Cheater (Possible 2000's Rework)
Scared Of The Moon (Invincible Demo)
Best Of Joy (1991 Demo)
Best Of Joy (2008 Demo)
Much Too Soon (1984 Demo)
Much Too Soon (1994 Mix 9)
Do You Know Where Your Children Are (HIStory Demo)
Hollywood Tonight (2008 Demo)
In The Back (Invincible demo)

Is there any that I'm missing? I'm talking only about songs that were released but with alternative versions that haven't been heard. If we extend it to unreleased songs there's bound to be a few more like GOAL 2009 and the 1983 demos of C1945 and Dream Away.
 
ChanceToDance said:
If you think about it there's enough of those kinds of songs that are enough to fill up almost 2 albums:

Don't Be Messin' Round (Thriller Demo)
Don't Be Messin' (Dangerous Demo)
Don't Be Messin' (2000's rework)
Little Susie (1979 Demo)
Sunset Driver (1986 Demo)
Beautiful Girl (2005-2009 Rework)
Cheater (Possible 2000's Rework)
Scared Of The Moon (Invincible Demo)
Best Of Joy (1991 Demo)
Best Of Joy (2008 Demo)
Much Too Soon (1984 Demo)
Much Too Soon (1994 Mix 9)
Do You Know Where Your Children Are (HIStory Demo)
Hollywood Tonight (2008 Demo)
In The Back (Invincible demo)

Is there any that I'm missing? I'm talking only about songs that were released but with alternative versions that haven't been heard. If we extend it to unreleased songs there's bound to be a few more like GOAL 2009 and the 1983 demos of C1945 and Dream Away.
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There's also supposed to be a longer demo of "Don't Be Messin' Round" that runs up to 8 minutes.
Also the original recording of "This Is It" before they lifted the vocals and re-worked it with strings.

Might be more...
 
Fuzball said:
Did mention its year or for what album it was intended? It's been a while since I've watched the entire deposition.
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Just found a transcript:

Attorney: Have you heard of a song called “She’s Not a Girl”?

MJ: Yes.

AT: Who wrote it?

MJ: I wrote it.

AT: Was it released?

MJ: Pardon?

AT: Was it recorded and released?

MJ: It was recorded but never released. It’s a demo.

AT: Pardon?

MJ: It’s a demo I did, I think, at the Encino house.

AT: Do you know what year?

MJ: No.
 
ChanceToDance said:
Is there any that I'm missing? I'm talking only about songs that were released but with alternative versions that haven't been heard. If we extend it to unreleased songs there's bound to be a few more like GOAL 2009 and the 1983 demos of C1945 and Dream Away.
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The early discussed demo of Streetwalker is missing, there should be another demo of Al Capone, another demo of Price of fame (i think?), maybe some more spanish versions, an early they dont care about us demo as well as Blood on the dancefloor (dangerous demo). And that are just a few i think
 
SeriousFX said:
Must've been the Dangerous version.
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No, it's not the Dangerous version... the one I am referring to is a 1985/86 recording that lasted up to 8 minutes that Joe Vogel once described years ago. It was one of several Bad-era recordings/versions that Matt Forger built the final 4-minute version you hear on Bad 25 - taking bits off different reels etc.

In other words, the Bad 25 version is basically a 'Frankenstein' mix meant to represent what the finished track would have been.
 
Lordus Hanus said:
The early discussed demo of Streetwalker is missing, there should be another demo of Al Capone, another demo of Price of fame (i think?), maybe some more spanish versions, an early they dont care about us demo as well as Blood on the dancefloor (dangerous demo). And that are just a few i think
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There is a demo of Al Capone that has Roger Troutman and samples of James Brown's voice (like a duet with MJ). We are talking more about unreleased versions of posthumously-released songs, not necessarily unreleased album versions, if you catch my drift.
 
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ChanceToDance said:
If you think about it there's enough of those kinds of songs that are enough to fill up almost 2 albums:

Don't Be Messin' Round (Thriller Demo)
Don't Be Messin' (Dangerous Demo)
Don't Be Messin' (2000's rework)
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I remember Bruce Swedien stating that the DMBR demo on Bad 25 was a mix of the first two takes MJ did for that song. So in a sense, we already have the Thriller demo, it’s mixed with the Bad demo.
 
ChanceToDance said:
Sunset Driver (1986 Demo)
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Very sure there's not Bad era demo

MJ estate said that it was just considered.
Looks like MJ asked Bill to mix the Thriller era versión, but never worked again on it and makes sense beacuse on the Bill's calendar the song wasn't worked again after he mix it.
(Bill's mix is the released versión)

The only versión we don't know about is the Off The Wall Demo, considered for OTW 2001
 
ChanceToDance said:
If you think about it there's enough of those kinds of songs that are enough to fill up almost 2 albums:

Don't Be Messin' Round (Thriller Demo)
Don't Be Messin' (Dangerous Demo)
Don't Be Messin' (2000's rework)
Little Susie (1979 Demo)
Sunset Driver (1986 Demo)
Beautiful Girl (2005-2009 Rework)
Cheater (Possible 2000's Rework)
Scared Of The Moon (Invincible Demo)
Best Of Joy (1991 Demo)
Best Of Joy (2008 Demo)
Much Too Soon (1984 Demo)
Much Too Soon (1994 Mix 9)
Do You Know Where Your Children Are (HIStory Demo)
Hollywood Tonight (2008 Demo)
In The Back (Invincible demo)

Is there any that I'm missing? I'm talking only about songs that were released but with alternative versions that haven't been heard. If we extend it to unreleased songs there's bound to be a few more like GOAL 2009 and the 1983 demos of C1945 and Dream Away.
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A Place With No Name (2004 Mix)
A Place With No Name (Neff-U's 2008 Mix)
In The Back (HIStory Demo)
Sunset Driver (OTW Demo)
The Way You Love Me (1998 Versión, only snippet)
Another Day (Original Versión, only snippet)
Behind The Mask (Alt Takes)
APWNN & Blue Gangsta mixes for Michael
Hollywood Tonight Alt mixes for Michael (only snippets)
Can’t Let Her Get Away (8 minutes versión, only rap snippet)
Streetwalker 87 (only LQ)
What a lovely way to go (2010 (only snippet) & pre Thriller era versions)

I sure i lost others that i can't remember
 
Fuzball said:
Good question.

As of today, we still don't have any details on
  • California Grass
  • Children's Hout
  • Cry
  • Lonely Bird
  • Lama Lola
  • Lonely Man
  • I Forgive You
  • I Have This Love of Me
  • In the Valley
  • People Have to Make Some Kind of Joke
  • Red Eye
  • She's Not a Girl
  • Sister Sue
  • Tragedy of a Cheerleader
  • Why Shy
  • Who's the Girl with the Hair Down
  • You're a Liar
^ some of these could have been demoed for Bad
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I do wonder the years of creation on these as none of them show registered but something about the titles always makes me think of Dangerous and being recorded during the later 80's
 
Eventidescape1 said:
There is a demo of Al Capone that has Roger Troutman and samples of James Brown's voice (like a duet with MJ). We are talking more about unreleased versions of posthumously-released songs, not necessarily unreleased album versions, if you catch my drift.
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Based on some conversations I had with Barnes, I don't think Roger Troutman was necessarily on the James Brown-sampled version. But, I can't recall exactly what was said.
 
Larry Janus:
I recorded the demo for "Smooth Criminal" at the BeeGees Studio in the 80's !
It was called "Al Capone" at the time.
John Barnes had a LOT of MIDI stuff in our room. You couldn't walk around. =)

(it didn't have Bruce's cool voice at the time, of course)
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Bruce Swedien:
Larry - Isn't that a great track???? John Barnes was such a pain-in-the-ass!!!
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BlackAnon said:
The Hayvenhurst vs Westlake drama should be studied. They didn't like each other at all
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I read somewhere that Michael took tapes (slave reels) to work on at Hayvenhurst behind Quincy's back during the main Bad sessions... Quincy soon caught wind of that, and that was basically the end of the B team.
 
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Eventidescape1 said:
I remember reading somewhere that Michael took tapes (slave reels) to work on at Hayvenhurst behind Quincy's back during the main Bad sessions... Quincy soon caught wind of that, and that was basically the end of the B team.
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There was a lot of tension between those sessions. My thought is Quincy wanted sole producer credit which is why he or Michael, sent Brad to retrieve tapes Michael worked on at home. Quincy purposely found ways to tweak the songs to get his credit while reducing Michael’s contributions to co-producer
 
BlackAnon said:
The Hayvenhurst vs Westlake drama should be studied. They didn't like each other at all
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Hayvenhurst team basically made the Bad album, no discussion. Except for JGF and MITM but that's it. Quincy wanted to take all the credit for himself. The people that should have gotten their deserved credit as the ACTUAL producers of the album were the Hayvenhurst team (John Barnes, Bill Bottrell and Matt Forger).
 
SMJJ777 said:
Hayvenhurst team basically made the Bad album, no discussion. Except for JGF and MITM but that's it. Quincy wanted to take all the credit for himself. The people that should have gotten their deserved credit as the ACTUAL producers of the album were the Hayvenhurst team (John Barnes, Bill Bottrell and Matt Forger).
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Exactly. Barnes already said they were at Hayvenhurst recording actual songs, not demos to turn in. A shame a lot of this is being realized after so many years
 
SMJJ777 said:
Hayvenhurst team basically made the Bad album, no discussion. Except for JGF and MITM but that's it. Quincy wanted to take all the credit for himself. The people that should have gotten their deserved credit as the ACTUAL producers of the album were the Hayvenhurst team (John Barnes, Bill Bottrell and Matt Forger).
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Funnily enough, the Just Good Friends demo was allegedly MADE at Hayvenhurst. If that is true, then Man In The Mirror is the only track where Quincy deserves more than 50% credit.
 
BlackAnon said:
There was a lot of tension between those sessions. My thought is Quincy wanted sole producer credit which is why he or Michael, sent Brad to retrieve tapes Michael worked on at home. Quincy purposely found ways to tweak the songs to get his credit while reducing Michael’s contributions to co-producer
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Absolutely. It seems to be more the case Quincy viewed Bill Bottrell and John Barnes as interlopers (at least on a producer level) and not a member of his trusted team, from what I remember reading... He was like, "either they go or I go".

Sure enough, John Barnes plays piano on "I Just Can't Stop Loving You" and appears on some of the other Quincy-produced tracks. So John wasn't completely out of the picture - he was in as a musician, not a producer or collaborator like on the Hayvenhurst sessions.
 
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JohnC said:
Based on some conversations I had with Barnes, I don't think Roger Troutman was necessarily on the James Brown-sampled version. But, I can't recall exactly what was said.
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Did John ever mention working on Chicago 1945?
 
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