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New MoFi 'Off The Wall' Master One-Step Pressing Announced

SmoothGangsta said:
I love saying incorrect things and then acting like people responding to what I've said are being unreasonable.
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My good fellow user, what did I say wrong? Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and do whatever they want. If he loves CDs, great. Just don't come saying CDs are the best.
 
MJbr2 said:
As I said, stick to CD then. No one's telling you not to.
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It's fine. I have no interest in vinyl or having discussions about it. Here we are at reply #123 and I didn't actually mention vinyl at all, until a few posts back, when I made a one-line throwaway comment about double LPs being an extreme aggravation for me because I'd find it a chore to get up to turn a record over after 2 songs.

That would be too much for me unless the record was cheaper and/or sounded better than the SACD, which it doesn't.

MJbr2 said:
Just don't act like it's the second coming of Jesus when, in fact, it's just as outdated. CD was introduced in 1982, for crying out loud.
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I don't really wanna keep going into this, but I just wanna add that vinyl dates from 1948, and SACD dates from 1999.

MJbr2 said:
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and do whatever they want. If he loves CDs, great. Just don't come saying CDs are the best.
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It's not opinion. It's an objective fact that CDs are a more accurate storage medium than vinyl, with other advantages of cost, capacity, convenience, durability and green credentials.

But if you believe vinyl sounds better than CD, I can't prove you wrong.
 
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R1chard said:
I don't really wanna keep going into this, but I just wanna add that vinyl dates from 1948, and SACD dates from 1999.
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Agreed. And that's exactly why high res digital is the best by far.
 
zinniabooklover said:
Yeah, but vinyl is really fragile, too expensive and takes up way too much space (imo!). Good for the art work, bad from a storage pov.
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Well, since most people today don't buy any physical media products and stream instead, that isn't a problem. 😁 An album today is lucky to go gold. A few of the artists that do sell fairly well with physical are Taylor Swift, Adele, BTS, & Bruno Mars. Drake is very popular with streaming, but not really with CDs/records.
 
DuranDuran said:
Well, since most people today don't buy any physical media products and stream instead, that isn't a problem. [...]
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Well, of course. But those collectors sure do clog up the aisles where the vinyl and cd's are stacked (especially the vinyl) in the few remaining record shops. Not to mention people who buy everything online (vinyl and cd's, I mean, not streaming). They are out there, the people who still love physical media. And most of the people that I see doing this are loads younger than me. Which is very pleasing. :)

Besides, I was talking about vinyl in the context of the discussion on this thread. Which clearly includes people who very much do still buy vinyl. Which is also cool.

DuranDuran said:
Records don't get disc rot like CDs & DVDs can.
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This 👆 would also not be a problem since so many people avoid physical media.
 
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zinniabooklover said:
Well, of course. But those collectors sure do clog up the aisles where the vinyl and cd's are stacked (especially the vinyl) in the few remaining record shops. Not to mention people who buy everything online (vinyl and cd's, I mean, not streaming). They are out there, the people who still love physical media. And most of the people that I see doing this are loads younger than me. Which is very pleasing. :)

Besides, I was talking about vinyl in the context of the discussion on this thread. Which clearly includes people who very much do still buy vinyl. Which is also cool.


This 👆 would also not be a problem since so many people avoid physical media.
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If these collectors are interested in older music, the majority of it has never been on CD and is not officially on any streaming sites either. They've been out of print since their original release. Especially for non-mainstream artists & genres. Some get uploaded on Youtube by people who own these records/tapes. So records and maybe tapes are the only way to get this music. These people are sometimes called "crate diggers". They search for rare records, used or "new old stock". With music in the 78s era, much of that was before recording tape was invented. So if it's on a CD today, it was likely copied straight from the 78s.
 
zinniabooklover said:
This 👆 would also not be a problem since so many people avoid physical media.
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The thing with streaming is that anything can be removed at any time for any reason. Or with movies/TV, stuff can be edited out if it doesn't fit with today's audience. That is now un-PC. With older movies & TV shows, sometimes the songs are changed if the record labels and/or publishing companies are asking for too much money. With the original Married ....With Children DVDs. the entire theme song (Love And Marriage) by Frank Sinatra was replaced with some generic instrumental music. I think Frank was put back on a later pressing.
 
DuranDuran said:
Records don't get disc rot like CDs & DVDs can.
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DD, I don't know where you're going with this. My original post was in response to this comment here👆

And now you're off on a tangent ... 👇

DuranDuran said:
If these collectors are interested in older music, the majority of it has never been on CD and is not officially on any streaming sites either. They've been out of print since their original release. Especially for non-mainstream artists & genres. Some get uploaded on Youtube by people who own these records/tapes. So records and maybe tapes are the only way to get this music. These people are sometimes called "crate diggers". They search for rare records, used or "new old stock". With music in the 78s era, much of that was before recording tape was invented. So if it's on a CD today, it was likely copied straight from the 78s.
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... so I'll just leave it except to say, most of the people that I see going through the vinyl section are looking at stuff that absolutely was released on CD (and is still available on CD, in many cases. People are often buying the anniversary vinyl that just got put out with a few random 'extra' bits included - facsimile gig tickets or whatever). Plus not all of them are buying older music. When Adele, Taylor, Olivia or Sabrina put stuff out on vinyl I absolutely see people buying those records. I wouldn't say those new albums are flying off the shelves. It's probably quite a niche market but those records definitely have a customer base, I would say.
 
DuranDuran said:
The thing with streaming is that anything can be removed at any time for any reason. Or with movies/TV, stuff can be edited out if it doesn't fit with today's audience. That is now un-PC. With older movies & TV shows, sometimes the songs are changed if the record labels and/or publishing companies are asking for too much money. With the original Married ....With Children DVDs. the entire theme song (Love And Marriage) by Frank Sinatra was replaced with some generic instrumental music. I think Frank was put back on a later pressing.
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I'm going to eat Christmas cake!
 
DuranDuran said:
Records don't get disc rot like CDs & DVDs can.
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(Haven't followed the whole conversation, only replaying to this.)

But records can also get damages by their own packaging (bad paper, pad plastic, extra glue somewhere...), warped, and are more likely to get damaged by their player than optical media.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
Then what are we doing here? Y'all fell for an old fogey trying to force discussion about nothing. Man.
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People were discussing the pros and cons of various media formats, mostly vinyl. It's a valid discussion, given what the thread is about.

Chill out, man.
 
MJbr2 said:

I don't agree with the claim of CD sounding better than vinyl. It should, theoretically, but vinyl is analog and retains "full quality". It's just like comparing a DVD to 16mm film. DVD is stuck at 480p, while 16mm holds information equivalent up to 1080p. CD is stuck at 44/16, while you can rip vinyl into really high res files.

Also, I can assure you the OG vinyl pressings of either OTW, Thriller and Bad knock their respective 1st pressing CDs right out of the park. The CDs just lack the punch and overall thickness of the original records.

I respect your opinion about not liking vinyl and agree with the fact that it doesn't last long like most analog media formats, but analog is limitless in terms of storage, whereas digital isn't. We're in the age of high res audio files and CD is a pisstake in comparison to them.
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This was true in the 80s, but nowadays vinyl are sourced from digital recordings, the final step is analog but the source which is printed on vinyl has the same limitations that digital recordings have. If the source file was recorded at 44.1khz and 16bit it's gonna be the same as a CD, if the source recording is higher than that then it will sound better than CD.
Nowadays there are great websites such as hdtracks or Qobuz who sell digital versions of albums in way better quality than CD and possibly vinyl, you can buy DSD files (equivalent of what's contained in a SACD) or albums at 192Khz & 24 bit for example (which is about 4 times the sample rate of a CD which would be at 44.1Khz & 16bit).
 
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alexbism said:
Nowadays there are great websites such as hdtracks or Qobuz who sell digital versions of albums in way better quality than CD and possibly vinyl, you can buy DSD files (equivalent of what's contained in a SACD) or albums at 192Khz & 24 bit for example (which is about 4 times the sample rate of a CD which would be at 44.1Khz & 16bit).
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Beware with those... Often, their "Hi Res" files don't use the same master as their "CD quality" files... and, in some cases I know of, the "Hi Res" files use the worst masters.
Also, Hi Res files do not always actually contain any relevant data in frequencies above 44.1 kHz or 48 KHz, sometimes it's just "blank space".
To finish on Hi Res... Human ear doesn't hear sounds above 20 to 22 kHz. Nyquist-Shannon's sampling theorem states that to perfectly reproduce a sample, sample rate has to be twice its frequency (I need to check those maths deeper someday). Which means that media above 44 kHz reproduce frequencies that no one can hear (that why 44.1 kHz was chosen for the CD). Yet, one may ask: even if the original recording was recorded, at 96 kHz (as example), nor the artist nor the sound engineers have actually heard those frequencies and even if your gear reproduces them, your won't hear them either. So, if it's for listening, the higher frequencies are pure snake oil and data waste.
Regarding bit depth, I'm still not quite sure of the benefits for listening, I think that 24-bit may allow a wider dynamic range, but as for all media, it depends if it's well used when transforming/generating the file.


Regarding the vinyl vs CD debate... CD is technically superior, but there are more CDs that were butchered at mastering (search about "Loudness war"), while many vinyl records were "carefully" mastered, and also vinyl has limitations that prevent a part of the butchering that happens on CDs. So it's a case by case thing, it all depends on how carefully each record (or digital file set) was mastered.
 
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MJbr2 said:
People were discussing the pros and cons of various media formats, mostly vinyl. It's a valid discussion, given what the thread is about.

Chill out, man.
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Well from my getting caught up it just started getting exhausting.

I'm sick also.
 
Maxym said:
(Haven't followed the whole conversation, only replaying to this.)

But records can also get damages by their own packaging (bad paper, pad plastic, extra glue somewhere...), warped, and are more likely to get damaged by their player than optical media.
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CDs with disc rot are unplayable. A record with scratches just has pops & clicks. It can still be played. If it's not too bad, a warped record can be played too. Also, disc rot does not happen from playing it, it happens to CDs/DVDs just sitting there. It's not like storing a cassette/8 track/reel-to-reel tape next to a magnet, which results in dropouts.
 
DuranDuran said:
CDs with disc rot are unplayable. A record with scratches just has pops & clicks. It can still be played. If it's not too bad, a warped record can be played too.
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Depends on the amount of damage on the CD... Both will be a pain to listen to.

DuranDuran said:
Also, disc rot does not happen from playing it, it happens to CDs/DVDs just sitting there.
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Yeah, I know CD rot. But same for damage made to vinyl by its packaging and warp. I meant the laser is less likely to damage an optical media than a bad move with a needle or such (or too much weight or such). (However I avoid inserting CDs in any player with no tray, or, when they were a thing, I avoided playing a CD I wanted to keep pristine in a car CD player.)
 
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Bros took my money on the pre-order, but it seems that I’ve placed no order yet. Anyone having the same issue?
 
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