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The Discussion of MJ's Unreleased Tracks

Fuzball said:
@Eventidescape1: there're earlier recordings from previous album sessions. For history every song the team has worked on was created from scratch - except Earth Song.
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I was talking in the context of the three 24-track reels of tape Rob Hoffman was referring to for TDCAU - those were all overdub reels towards the final HIStory album recording, aside from the master reel.
Come Together was another one not created from scratch.

There definitely was an earlier version of TDCAU from Dangerous, which Matt Forger and Bill Bottrell worked between June & August 1989 at Westlake Recording Studios. Bryan Loren heard that version when he joined the team by October 1989, but it got "bumped" at the time. Bill more recently said a version may exist from the Bad sessions (1986/87), but that may just be an idea or groove that Michael thought had potential.
 
Eventidescape1 said:
I was talking in the context of the three 24-track reels of tape Rob Hoffman was referring to for TDCAU - those were all overdub reels towards the final HIStory album recording, aside from the master reel.

There definitely was an earlier version of TDCAU from Dangerous, which Matt Forger and Bill Bottrell worked between June & August 1989 at Westlake Recording Studios. Bryan Loren heard that version when he joined the team by October 1989, but it got "bumped" at the time. Bill more recently said a version may exist from the Bad sessions (1986/87), but that may just be an idea or groove that Michael thought had potential.
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I wasn’t exclusively talking about the HIStory tapes. Mine are only safety copy’s from different time periods. Mostly Dangerous. I’m still searching for the rest.

For example, I’m missing the vocal takes from the Bad sessions. I’ve been told there’s also a „home demo“.
 
arisenow said:
I wasn’t exclusively talking about the HIStory tapes. Mine are only safety copy’s from different time periods. Mostly Dangerous. I’m still searching for the rest.

For example, I’m missing the vocal takes from the Bad sessions. I’ve been told there’s also a „home demo“.
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To be fair, you initially said "There are at least three 24-track tapes with different arrangements" of TDCAU, which technically isn't wrong but I thought you misinterpreted what Rob Hoffman was saying initially.

For all the Michael album tracks, there are several multitrack "slave" tapes /w overdubs corresponding to one "master" multitrack for a given recording... Bad itself used around 400 reels of tape for all 12 recorded songs /w Quincy, including Streetwalker. And these are all compiled from (including vocals) for the final song you hear, so not all of the slave reels are needed or used eventually. Or not all of the tapes were transferred to digital.

There would also be previous recorded versions for songs, cut on 24-track, 16-track etc. at Hayvenhurst and other studios. Which may or may not have used slave reels at all, or not as many as the final recordings did. If that makes sense.

You may have safety copies of the slave reel, but not the full set of isolated tracks used in the end, as is for the "Billie Jean" demo and "You Are Not Alone" multitracks which are largely isolated vocals with submixed backing tracks.
 
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Eventidescape1 said:
To be fair, you initially said "There are at least three 24-track tapes with different arrangements" of TDCAU, which technically isn't wrong but I thought you misinterpreted what Rob Hoffman was saying initially.

For all the Michael album tracks, there are several multitrack "slave" tapes /w overdubs corresponding to one "master" multitrack for a given recording... Bad itself used around 400 reels of tape for all 12 recorded songs /w Quincy, including Streetwalker. And these are all compiled from (including vocals) for the final song you hear, so not all of the slave reels are needed or used eventually. Or not all of the tapes were transferred to digital.

There would also be previous recorded versions for songs, cut on 24-track, 16-track etc. at Hayvenhurst and other studios. Which may or may not have used slave reels at all, or not as many as the final recordings did. If that makes sense.

You may have safety copies of the slave reel, but not the full set of isolated tracks used in the end, as is for the "Billie Jean" demo and "You Are Not Alone" multitracks which are largely isolated vocals with submixed backing tracks.
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You are 100% correct.

I didn’t realise Rob was talking about HIStory.

What really stands out are the cassettes of day mixes made for Michael, and later the DAT tapes. This includes TDCAU.

But you can only buy what’s actually for sale, and most people who still have tapes won’t sell them.
 
arisenow said:
You are 100% correct.

I didn’t realise Rob was talking about HIStory.

What really stands out are the cassettes of day mixes made for Michael, and later the DAT tapes. This includes TDCAU.

But you can only buy what’s actually for sale, and most people who still have tapes won’t sell them.
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Do you have more information on as to why you say the "Stay (With Me)" snippet is AI?
 
arisenow said:
The "snippet" sounds like AI, especially Michaels BG vocals.

I am not aware of any Akon song with the name "Stay".
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Can't say I agree, really. I've listen to a lot of Akon in my life and both the music and the voice sound very real to me. The MJ BG vocals sound eerie like MJs BG vocals in some parts of Hold My Hand, making it sound even more real.

Also, Akon said they did more songs and ideas - could easily be one of the ideas he had where Mike chipped in.

Only thing is the sound quality, which could be a telling, but we have had same awful off speaker recordings earlier like Water. You might be right in it being AI, but I don’t see enough signs to conclude either.

I insisted on asking you (again) because I notice you quite often state your opinion as facts when you often can't really know for sure, or at least won't provide any source or citations. Nothing personal of course
 
arisenow said:
Anyone care to confirm who initially leaked Loving You? The work tapes for these sessions weren't exactly cheap.
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Well, the first snippet comes from a Motif vc on discord around January

I wanna think it’s from Korgs, i remember motif saying that the Loving You take was from the multitrack or something, in that case it’s 100% korg
 
Strangerintheworld said:
We probably won't hear Dark Lady for a long time...
Nobody wants to share it, not even a high-quality snippet...
Perhaps a generous soul will decide to do so, which would be the greatest gift imaginable.
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I can understand gatekeeping something like Tomboy, but Dark Lady isnt even finished or that good
 
Pentum said:
I insisted on asking you (again) because I notice you quite often state your opinion as facts when you often can't really know for sure, or at least won't provide any source or citations. Nothing personal of course
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Don't take this the wrong way, but maybe you think that because you want it to be true?

A YouTube account with only three uploads already raises questions. “T.S.” is clearly AI, and “Everybody Wants To Be A Movie Star” is completely off. starting with the instrumental itself.

What do “Stay” and “EWTBAMS” actually have in common? They sound like made-up song titles generated from an AI prompt, with only the supposed chorus being sung. On top of that, they’re recorded through speakers, which conveniently masks the very characteristics of AI-generated audio, especially the reverb and artifacts.

What I will give “Stay” is that it does sound like Akon. But I’m a big Akon fan, and that’s exactly why it immediately struck me as fake.

Also, why would some random person have an unreleased Akon recording in the first place? Akon has always been pretty secretive about unreleased material, including song titles and demos.
 
arisenow said:
What do “Stay” and “EWTBAMS” actually have in common? They sound like made-up song titles generated from an AI prompt
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EWTBAMS is a real title, and a song Michael was working on before his death. It was on his handwritten to do list.
arisenow said:
“Everybody Wants To Be A Movie Star” is completely off. starting with the instrumental itself.
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The instrumental fits the era 100%. It sounds exactly like stuff from the late 00s.
arisenow said:
What I will give “Stay” is that it does sound like Akon. But I’m a big Akon fan, and that’s exactly why it immediately struck me as fake.

Also, why would some random person have an unreleased Akon recording in the first place? Akon has always been pretty secretive about unreleased material, including song titles and demos.
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Sorry, but that's not correct at all. TONS of unreleased Akon songs have leaked online over the years, and they still surface regularly.

I’m not saying this one is definitely real, but it’s plausible. If it isn’t one of the songs he and MJ collaborated on, maybe it’s just a random Akon demo from around that period that got tagged as MJ to attract more attention?

Also, what makes T.S. sound AI-generated to you? Yesterday you said it wasn’t AI and was an early vocal take, so which is it?

Yes, occam’s razor points toward them all being fake, but I’m honestly not convinced by your argument.
 
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