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A few thoughts about Xscape album...

Richard76

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As we all know Xscape album consist of Michael's "original" songs, which were never released before due to different circumstances...

So, first of all, I would like to make it clear: these songs on the different stages of completion, right? For example, Chicago and Blue Gangtsta - early demos, and Xscape, on the contrary, is almost finished. Blue Gangtsta on Xscape, by the way, was taken from 1998, but more finished version also was leaked. Though nobody knows from what year this version is... (keep it in mind, I'll get back to it later)

Then we go to another interesting fact. Get your weight off of me was planned to be on Xscape album (i even heard that remixed version was already finished), but original version is almost complete.

Now lets remember 2004 box set. Get your weight off of me was intended to be on that. As far as i know, it was even remixed for this set. But later was cancelled. And there is my second question: could Blue Gangtsta intended to be on 2004 set too? Because there are a lot of sources, claiming that last BG version is from 2004 (though some claims its from 1999 and changes on newer version were made not by Michael). So if it was reworked for 2004 set, then it gets clearer.

And my third question (a little bit off top). Who was remaking songs for 2004 box set: Michael or other people? Because everything seems really weird and illogical: 2004 box set - songs that Sony randomly took without Michael's permission, like "the way you love me", "fall again" and so on... Most of them are not finished. But then some songs were reworked for this set... Like Get your weight off of me... Why? Why do you have to finish song for some box sets when you can finish it for album or, at least, release it as a single...
 
In his Killer Thriller Speech (London, 2002), Michael Jackson stated that he was about to release a box set (i.e., 'The Ultimate Collection') which was one of his last contractual obligations with Sony Music.

At that time, the singer was so disgusted with the record company that he said (at that event) that he would give them any 2 new songs (which he had written ages ago) for that box set.

Michael Jackson along with his team (that included also Matt Forger) worked on that box set by making decisions about the track list, the artwork and also the overall glossy package.

Matt Forger, for example, stated that the singer reviewed what had been assembled and he then gave final approval to that project.

Matt Forger also stated that the best tracks were chosen for that project in order to show the evolution of his career.

The general idea about the 'Xscape' album (2014) was that it would not include any tracks (demos, or complete) that Michael Jackson did not want the world to hear, as confirmed by people who worked on it (like, the American producer L.A. Reid).
 
mj_frenzy said:
Michael Jackson along with his team (that included also Matt Forger) worked on that box set by making decisions about the track list, the artwork and also the overall glossy package.

Matt Forger, for example, stated that the singer reviewed what had been assembled and he then gave final approval to that project.
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Brad Buxer and Michael Prince have both stated that they helped Sony put together the box set basically without MJ’s oversight or involvement. He did have final say on the track listing, but it’s been heavily implied that he basically glanced at it and said “yeah whatever,” which isn’t hard to believe given that (a) he was in the middle of trial prep when the collection was being put together; and (b) it included songs he intended to keep working on, and DID keep working on after its release.
 
Richard76 said:
And my third question (a little bit off top). Who was remaking songs for 2004 box set: Michael or other people? Because everything seems really weird and illogical: 2004 box set - songs that Sony randomly took without Michael's permission,
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Sony wasn't involved in the song selecting proccess.

Matt Forger: "In the Ultimate Collection there was a desire to show the evolution of the career and how the songs changed with the times and Michael grew as an artist and as a songwriter."
mj_frenzy said:
In his Killer Thriller Speech (London, 2002), Michael Jackson stated that he was about to release a box set (i.e., 'The Ultimate Collection') which was one of his last contractual obligations with Sony Music.
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His contract with Sony was fulfilled with the release of "Number Ones".

TUC was kinda a thank you gift for the fans.
 
Richard76 said:
So, first of all, I would like to make it clear: these songs on the different stages of completion, right? For example, Chicago and Blue Gangtsta - early demos, and Xscape, on the contrary, is almost finished. Blue Gangtsta on Xscape, by the way, was taken from 1998, but more finished version also was leaked. Though nobody knows from what year this version is... (keep it in mind, I'll get back to it later)
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It wasn't worked on after March 1999.
Richard76 said:
Then we go to another interesting fact. Get your weight off of me was planned to be on Xscape album (i even heard that remixed version was already finished), but original version is almost complete.
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It was never selected or remixed for Xscape, it was merely considered. The most complete version there is the version intended for TUC.
 
mj_frenzy said:
The general idea about the 'Xscape' album (2014) was that it would not include any tracks (demos, or complete) that Michael Jackson did not want the world to hear, as confirmed by people who worked on it (like, the American producer L.A. Reid).
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So that means that there are people who know what unreleased songs he wanted the world to hear or not?
(That would solve so many debates... unless someone comes up with a fake list or such...)
 
Fuzball said:
Sony wasn't involved in the song selecting proccess.

Matt Forger: "In the Ultimate Collection there was a desire to show the evolution of the career and how the songs changed with the times and Michael grew as an artist and as a songwriter."

His contract with Sony was fulfilled with the release of "Number Ones".

TUC was kinda a thank you gift for the fans.
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Yeah, MJ's team went through everything they had and selected some stuff to include in the set.

I've always said that he wasn't talking about TUC in that speech.
 
mj_frenzy said:
The general idea about the 'Xscape' album (2014) was that it would not include any tracks (demos, or complete) that Michael Jackson did not want the world to hear, as confirmed by people who worked on it (like, the American producer L.A. Reid).
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This isn’t accurate. XSCAPE was designed to only include songs with completed vocals, which they argued meant that MJ held them in high regard. Other than the fact that they ignored their own standards by including the barely-finished “Love Never Felt So Good,” it’s hard to say that they chose songs that MJ “want[ed] the world to hear” seeing that he abandoned most of them outright and never returned to them. There’s a stark difference between “finished” and “actively wanted the world to hear.”
 
AlwaysThere said:
This isn’t accurate. XSCAPE was designed to only include songs with completed vocals, which they argued meant that MJ held them in high regard. Other than the fact that they ignored their own standards by including the barely-finished “Love Never Felt So Good,” it’s hard to say that they chose songs that MJ “want[ed] the world to hear” seeing that he abandoned most of them outright and never returned to them. There’s a stark difference between “finished” and “actively wanted the world to hear.”
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Thats pure PR on the part of LA Reid.

My guess is that, that was part of the settlement with Paul Anka in 2009 when he said Mike "Stole" the tapes and threatened to sue. Then the Estate reached out to him and they settled for 50% royalty. Imo, there could have been another condition that his other song, LNFSG should be lead on the next release with big promo (more visibility =more revenue=more royalty for Paul).

Otherwise it doesn't make sense to release a weak demo (without multi tracks- remember they couldn't take out the guitar part for the remix) with just 1 verse (repeated 3rice) as a lead single, when you have songs She wasn't Loving me (Chicago) on the Album. LA Reid favourite song on the album was supposedly "Loving you", and Timbaland's favourite was Chicago. But they go on and release LNFSG !
 
But who was making version for TUC?? Michael? And why they decided to rework only one song? For example The way You love me is just a demo.... It's not reworked
ChanceToDance said:
It wasn't worked on after March 1999.

It was never selected or remixed for Xscape, it was merely considered. The most complete version there is the version intended for TUC.
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Fuzball said:
Sony wasn't involved in the song selecting proccess.

Matt Forger: "In the Ultimate Collection there was a desire to show the evolution of the career and how the songs changed with the times and Michael grew as an artist and as a songwriter."

His contract with Sony was fulfilled with the release of "Number Ones".

TUC was kinda a thank you gift for the fans.
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Then who was selecting songs for TCU? I really doubt Michael would choose his UNFINISHED material, that he was going to finish... It doesn't make any sense :/
 
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Richard76 said:
Then who was selecting songs for TCU? I really doubt Michael would choose his UNFINISHED material, that he was going to finish... It doesn't make any sense :/
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Not really.....he put Beautiful Girl on TUC and he also put it on the list of songs he was working on in his later years
 
AlwaysThere said:
This isn’t accurate. XSCAPE was designed to only include songs with completed vocals, which they argued meant that MJ held them in high regard. Other than the fact that they ignored their own standards by including the barely-finished “Love Never Felt So Good,” it’s hard to say that they chose songs that MJ “want[ed] the world to hear” seeing that he abandoned most of them outright and never returned to them. There’s a stark difference between “finished” and “actively wanted the world to hear.”
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The explicit argument for Xscape was to connect Michael Jackson to the modern day in a parallel track that did not fit into his true "canon", which ended with Invincible.

The main reason LNFSG was included was because it was left over from "Michael". Just like the other songs from Xscape. That's why we got two versions.
 
How do we know that he had high regard for "Do You Know Where Your Children Are?" Or "Slave To The Rhythm?" Did he even work on those songs after 1995? I know he was interested in "Blue Gangsta" and "Xscape"....both were supposed to be on the album he was working on after Invincible.

I think the Estate make up a lot, and lie a lot, to justify their poor decisions on what songs they do release.
 
ShipOfFools said:
How do we know that he had high regard for "Do You Know Where Your Children Are?" Or "Slave To The Rhythm?" Did he even work on those songs after 1995? I know he was interested in "Blue Gangsta" and "Xscape"....both were supposed to be on the album he was working on after Invincible.

I think the Estate make up a lot, and lie a lot, to justify their poor decisions on what songs they do release.
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He revisited Slave in 2001 with Rodney. And DYKWYCA did apprer in 3 different album sessions.
 
We don't need to misrepresent the intentions of things just because we don't like the album. There's plenty of notable points made clear about Xscape that validate it, from its own album liner notes:

Jackson, however, frequently returned to tracks he liked on later projects, sometimes finding a “home” for them decades after they were first written and recorded.

For XSCAPE, Reid determined to only use songs that seemed mostly complete and that contained Jackson’s vocals from top to bottom. This was not merely a practical decision. Since Jackson often waited until the very end of a song’s creative process to lay down vocals, a complete vocal signaled to Reid that Jackson must have really loved these particular songs.

The decision to “contemporize” Jackson’s music is not only based on the artist’s desire to remain on the cutting-edge, but also on the premise that one way to keep great art alive and relevant—from adaptations of Shakespeare’s plays to hip hop samples of James Brown—is by creatively connecting it to the present.

It is not about replacing what Jackson left behind or even about finishing a specific blueprint...
 
ShipOfFools said:
How do we know that he had high regard for "Do You Know Where Your Children Are?" Or "Slave To The Rhythm?" Did he even work on those songs after 1995? I know he was interested in "Blue Gangsta" and "Xscape"....both were supposed to be on the album he was working on after Invincible.

I think the Estate make up a lot, and lie a lot, to justify their poor decisions on what songs they do release.
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He wasn't interested in BG and Xscape... He left them long time ago...
 
Richard76 said:
Then who was selecting songs for TCU? I really doubt Michael would choose his UNFINISHED material, that he was going to finish... It doesn't make any sense :/
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As stated above MJ's team were the ones who selected the tracks. All MJ did was look at the tracklist when it was done.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
We don't need to misrepresent the intentions of things just because we don't like the album. There's plenty of notable points made clear about Xscape that validate it, from its own album liner notes:

Jackson, however, frequently returned to tracks he liked on later projects, sometimes finding a “home” for them decades after they were first written and recorded.

For XSCAPE, Reid determined to only use songs that seemed mostly complete and that contained Jackson’s vocals from top to bottom. This was not merely a practical decision. Since Jackson often waited until the very end of a song’s creative process to lay down vocals, a complete vocal signaled to Reid that Jackson must have really loved these particular songs.

The decision to “contemporize” Jackson’s music is not only based on the artist’s desire to remain on the cutting-edge, but also on the premise that one way to keep great art alive and relevant—from adaptations of Shakespeare’s plays to hip hop samples of James Brown—is by creatively connecting it to the present.

It is not about replacing what Jackson left behind or even about finishing a specific blueprint...
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SmoothGangsta said:
As stated above MJ's team were the ones who selected the tracks. All MJ did was look at the tracklist when it was done.
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But Michael was upset... Right? He wanted to finish these songs ;/
 
SmoothGangsta said:
I mean, this just isn't true lol
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It's not true commercially. You could say it replaced the original Versions chart potential. Though you might also say the originals would've never charted, overall. They would be as recognized as the anniversary edition outtakes. They wanted hits.

In the creative side of things, you got two versions of the songs. Nothing is replaced, in fact it's doubled. So overall, it's true in that sense.
 
Richard76 said:
But Michael was upset... Right? He wanted to finish these songs ;/
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Doubt he was that bothered considering he was in the middle of preparing for a child molestation trial. He also probably had the ability to change the tracklist if he wanted, but didn't because he had other concerns. He continued to work on some of the songs afterwards so it seems them being released did not decrease his desire to release them at some point.
 
I always think Mike didn't care too much what went on TUC at the time (he had more important things on his mind, righty so) but I imagine after it came out, he saw the tracklist and thought those demo's had potential. That's why some of those ideas were resurrected
 
ShipOfFools said:
How do we know that he had high regard for "Do You Know Where Your Children Are?" Or "Slave To The Rhythm?" Did he even work on those songs after 1995? I know he was interested in "Blue Gangsta" and "Xscape"....both were supposed to be on the album he was working on after Invincible.

I think the Estate make up a lot, and lie a lot, to justify their poor decisions on what songs they do release.
Click to expand...

If a song is presented during various album sessions, to me, that means Michael was trying to place it somewhere because he wasn't done with it.....Do You Know was worked on early and mid 80's and worked again for Dangerous. Slave was worked in early 90's and brought out again in 2001
 
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