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Billie Jean. Sung live or lip synced?

Do you prefer Billie Jean sung live or lip synced?

  • Sung live

    Votes: 63 85.1%

  • Lip synced

    Votes: 11 14.9%
  • Total voters
    74
I do really wonder how Michael would have sounded for This Is It come show time.. He did mention in the film that he's trying to save his voice and build to the moment.. basically rebuild his voice, but realistically with the rehearsals he was doing and the show being around the corner I don't know how much "building' from that point to show time could really happen..
 
KOPV said:
I do really wonder how Michael would have sounded for This Is It come show time.. He did mention in the film that he's trying to save his voice and build to the moment.. basically rebuild his voice, but realistically with the rehearsals he was doing and the show being around the corner I don't know how much "building' from that point to show time could really happen..
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One of my concerns were that his voice would give in.
 
I understand the indignation a lot of people have over the lip-syncing thing but it was almost 20 years ago and they were different times, many pop-acts lip-synced shows and given that MJ did have mostly an entire career up until that point of giving amazing live performances I don't see it as the big issue its made out to be. I traveled 3 hours on a train and 3 hours back that night and was happy with the show and the expereince. I haven't spent the past 20 years in disgust that he lip-synced. I mean if people are that put out and upset about clicking a button and seeing him lip-sync, they can always just click back in one button press lol.

I don't mean to sound over defensive about the whole thing, as I'm not all that bothered, as I've said elsewhere in this thread 'give me a live vocal all day long, it's just that it happened and the world continued spinning and it wasn't the worst thing in the world. MJ performed whether he was ill or annoyed. Their was never any temper towards the fans, never throwing the microphone down and storming off stage or arriving on stage 2 hours after the due schedual. Meanwhile, Beiber, Britney, Celine and other pop stars are lip-sying right now and it's nothing more than a passing remark.

The HIStory tour was never really designed with the view that there would be over 20 different pro shot concerts floating around the internet, even the Munich concert; although shot specifically for a commercial release was scrapped when MJ watched it back. I know he wasn't entirely happy with his performance of that show but is it also possible that he realised the show itself was more suited for a live audience than the screen? You can choose to enjoy the good aspects or spend the rest of your life annoyed over the lip-sync (I would imagine he had very genuine reasons as he never wanted to disappoint his fans. I won't go on about his lupus, or virus or jet-lag or rearing his kids during this time). It is what it is and people can take it or leave it.

This ain't aimed at anyone, just my overall feeling. Beyonce lip-synced the presidential inauguration and Madonna lip-synced her Super Bowl halftime show to the world. Didn't Whitney lip-sync something? It happens, every day, by other artists.
 
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I agree with you.
I think many find the lip singing disappoint because of the large amounts of the show that were playback.
History Tour personally was his best tour. His dancing was smooth, and amazing, the setlist was incredible and costumes were nice. Had his vocals been in better shape, it could have been really off the charts. However, i'm fine with his lip sining.
I asked one of my friends yesterday would they look down on MJ for singing and they all said no because of how intense his concerts were.
 
KOPV said:
I do really wonder how Michael would have sounded for This Is It come show time.. He did mention in the film that he's trying to save his voice and build to the moment.. basically rebuild his voice, but realistically with the rehearsals he was doing and the show being around the corner I don't know how much "building' from that point to show time could really happen..
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I think his voice was great in This Is It rehearsals. Years of not performing meant that his voice was able to get that much needed break so I think he would have sounded great in This Is It.
 
Blue Criminal said:
I think his voice was great in This Is It rehearsals. Years of not performing meant that his voice was able to get that much needed break so I think he would have sounded great in This Is It.
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I think it's hard to tell what his vocals would have been like during This Is It.
The movie contains so many dubbed vocals, and you can even see this with Wanna Be Starting Something.

I think MJ would have had some good vocal moments, but still been struggling.
 
To say MJ would've sounded great during the This Is It shows is ignoring all facts honestly. It's quite the denial.
 
SmoothGangsta said:
To say MJ would've sounded great during the This Is It shows is ignoring all facts honestly. It's quite the denial.
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Well, This Is It in general did not show a good Michael.
Anyone who has seen Michael's previous performances would know that This Is It Michael was very off. His iconic moves were stiff, and he appeared very ill. Not to mention all the information that was rleased during the AEG trial, he was unwell and not ready for performing.
Vocally, Human Nature, I Just Can't Stop Loving You, and the J 5Melody were good, and probably going to be live.
STranger in Moscow too from what I've heard.
 
chris123678 said:
Well, This Is It in general did not show a good Michael.
Anyone who has seen Michael's previous performances would know that This Is It Michael was very off. His iconic moves were stiff, and he appeared very ill. Not to mention all the information that was rleased during the AEG trial, he was unwell and not ready for performing.
Vocally, Human Nature, I Just Can't Stop Loving You, and the J 5Melody were good, and probably going to be live.
STranger in Moscow too from what I've heard.
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He had not performed in 7 years. I'm sure he had to rehearse many moves and choreographies again. And he was older. I think the moves looked great and just watch Dangerous Tour rehearsals. In many songs he didn't even sing and didn't do all the moves.
 
Galactus123 said:
He had not performed in 7 years. I'm sure he had to rehearse many moves and choreographies again. And he was older. I think the moves looked great and just watch Dangerous Tour rehearsals. In many songs he didn't even sing and didn't do all the moves.
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I don't really understand why I constantly see people making excuses like this. Michael was unwell. He had serious lung problems, arthritis, was painfully thin and was using a hospital anaesthetic to sleep. He was not a healthy human being and the denial is quite obvious in the fan community. This Is It was designed to make MJ look good, hence the overdubbing, pitch shifted and processed vocals and carefully edited together footage, sometimes from three different rehearsals.
 
SmoothGangsta said:
I don't really understand why I constantly see people making excuses like this. Michael was unwell. He had serious lung problems, arthritis, was painfully thin and was using a hospital anaesthetic to sleep. He was not a healthy human being and the denial is quite obvious in the fan community. This Is It was designed to make MJ look good, hence the overdubbing, pitch shifted and processed vocals and carefully edited together footage, sometimes from three different rehearsals.
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Agree. In retrospect, he was in no fit state to do the This Is It shows, and knowing what we know now about what went on behind the scenes, a person can't honestly take that information and suggest otherwise, especially after hearing Kenny Ortega (a man that loved MJ dearly) account when he gave evidence.
 
chris123678 said:
Well, This Is It in general did not show a good Michael.
Anyone who has seen Michael's previous performances would know that This Is It Michael was very off. His iconic moves were stiff, and he appeared very ill. Not to mention all the information that was rleased during the AEG trial, he was unwell and not ready for performing.
Vocally, Human Nature, I Just Can't Stop Loving You, and the J 5Melody were good, and probably going to be live.
STranger in Moscow too from what I've heard.
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I personally am not debating his overall health at the time.
Much like you did at the end of your comment I'm focusing on the vocals, and vocally It seems that I agree with you because IMO he did still have it at the time of the This Is It rehearsals.:)
 
Galactus123 said:
He had not performed in 7 years. I'm sure he had to rehearse many moves and choreographies again. And he was older. I think the moves looked great and just watch Dangerous Tour rehearsals. In many songs he didn't even sing and didn't do all the moves.
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I'm still convinced that he wasn't ready.
Firstly, he was under the influence when he announced the tour.
Secondly, according to accounts from AEG and some footage, Michael's performing when rehearsals began in April was good compared to what had happened from June till his death.

Secondly, no where in This Is It do we find the moves he was known for. Moonwalk, kick, etc.
His slide glide wasn't even the same. When I first saw him trying to attempt it I was shocked.

I'll say that his choreographed dancing like Smooth Criminal, They Don't Really Care About Us, Thriller and Beat it were pretty good.
But his freestyle dancing like Billie Jean, Wanna Be Starting Something and Black or White was not good at all.
Just compare This Is It to his last tour, History and the difference is astounding.
Yeah he hadn't performed in a while, but it looked like he lost moves.
I use History because Michael was nearly 40 and aging, yet his dance moves were phenomenal.
 
In reality Michael was in no condition to do 50 gruelling shows. I honestly think if he the concert series had happened, MJ would not have done the full 50 shows. I reckon he would have had a breakdown after 10-15 shows and they would have cancelled the rest. But having said all of that I do believe Michael still had his voice. Maybe his dancing had declined due to age and health problems but he was still an incredible vocalist till his final breath.
 
chris123678 said:
I'm still convinced that he wasn't ready.
Firstly, he was under the influence when he announced the tour.
Secondly, according to accounts from AEG and some footage, Michael's performing when rehearsals began in April was good compared to what had happened from June till his death.

Secondly, no where in This Is It do we find the moves he was known for. Moonwalk, kick, etc.
His slide glide wasn't even the same. When I first saw him trying to attempt it I was shocked.

I'll say that his choreographed dancing like Smooth Criminal, They Don't Really Care About Us, Thriller and Beat it were pretty good.
But his freestyle dancing like Billie Jean, Wanna Be Starting Something and Black or White was not good at all.
Just compare This Is It to his last tour, History and the difference is astounding.
Yeah he hadn't performed in a while, but it looked like he lost moves.
I use History because Michael was nearly 40 and aging, yet his dance moves were phenomenal.
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I wouldn't say that he had lost his moves.
Just that possibly he wasn't in good enough shape to execute them at the level he could have if he was healthy, so maybe he decided to omit some.:yes:
Even then, that might not be true.:)

Overall, I just couldn't see Michael losing his moves.:no:

And I agree with you about HIStory tour!
I think dance wise HIStory was his best tour.:yes:
 
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It's not really fair to use This Is It to define if he could still dance...

This Is It was a rehearsal.. - He dances a lot more in TII than in Dangerous Rehearsals. - So with your logic had MJ died before the Dangerous Tour startet and you saw only Dangerous rehearsal footage you would conclude that he could still sing - but his dancing was no good any more....

To compare rehearsal footage with actual concert dancing is so very unfair and say nothing about his abilities to dance.

I do agree his healt may not have been up to 50 shows - but I don't think we can judge his dance skills on what we've seen - I am very very sure it would have been a lot better if he had actually performed a real concert in front of an audience. With adrenaline and everything - that adds a lot of energy.
 
Hess said:
It's not really fair to use This Is It to define if he could still dance...

This Is It was a rehearsal.. - He dances a lot more in TII than in Dangerous Rehearsals. - So with your logic had MJ died before the Dangerous Tour startet and you saw only Dangerous rehearsal footage you would conclude that he could still sing - but his dancing was no good any more....

To compare rehearsal footage with actual concert dancing is so very unfair and say nothing about his abilities to dance.

I do agree his healt may not have been up to 50 shows - but I don't think we can judge his dance skills on what we've seen - I am very very sure it would have been a lot better if he had actually performed a real concert in front of an audience. With adrenaline and everything - that adds a lot of energy.
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Hm, you raise a good point that could be true.
While he indeed wasn't anywhere near in tiptop shape we ARE still looking at rehearsal footage, which Michael truly never went full tilt during (because it IS only rehearsal).:)
 
chris123678 said:
I'm still convinced that he wasn't ready.
Firstly, he was under the influence when he announced the tour.
Secondly, according to accounts from AEG and some footage, Michael's performing when rehearsals began in April was good compared to what had happened from June till his death.

Secondly, no where in This Is It do we find the moves he was known for. Moonwalk, kick, etc.
His slide glide wasn't even the same. When I first saw him trying to attempt it I was shocked.

I'll say that his choreographed dancing like Smooth Criminal, They Don't Really Care About Us, Thriller and Beat it were pretty good.
But his freestyle dancing like Billie Jean, Wanna Be Starting Something and Black or White was not good at all.
Just compare This Is It to his last tour, History and the difference is astounding.
Yeah he hadn't performed in a while, but it looked like he lost moves.
I use History because Michael was nearly 40 and aging, yet his dance moves were phenomenal.
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It's unfair to compare rehearsals to actual shows.

 
Blue Criminal said:
In reality Michael was in no condition to do 50 gruelling shows. I honestly think if he the concert series had happened, MJ would not have done the full 50 shows. I reckon he would have had a breakdown after 10-15 shows and they would have cancelled the rest. But having said all of that I do believe Michael still had his voice. Maybe his dancing had declined due to age and health problems but he was still an incredible vocalist till his final breath.
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He possibly could have pulled it off

This Is It was going to take place in one location, so Michael wouldn't have to travel and deal with jet lag and different time zones. There was a 2-3 day break inbetween each show and later on there was going to be a 2-3 month break inbetween shows. There was plenty of time for him to rest between shows.

Compared to his previous tours. This Is It was a walk in the park
 
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Having watched all three tours obsessively, I think I understand MJ's decision to lipsync the HIStory tour. I don't doubt that he could do one show live, but it would have been torture to do that many dates while singing live. The Royal concert in 1996 was just as live as the Dangerous tour and he sounded great (perhaps even better than in the Dangerous tour). Probably the best live Billie Jean vocals I've heard and the last half (or the entire thing, not 100%) of Earth Song was also live. However, it was a one-off concert and you can hear that his voice is destroyed after Earth Song. This is also why he recorded Earth Song last for the HIStory album because he knew that his voice would take a long time to recover from that.

Many concerts on the Dangerous tour were cancelled (even before the allegations broke) and the entire tour netted a loss. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jackson's_health_and_appearance#Health_concerns I think MJ really over-strained himself on that tour. The Bad tour was not as strenuous as he had lesser hits to perform (no Jam, Dangerous, Black or White) and he didn't dance as much back then.

By the time the HIStory tour came around, he had an even longer setlist and was a fit 40 year old, but at around 36-37 you do see top sportsmen retiring as the body naturally slows down and an MJ show demands the kind of fitness that an athlete would have. His costume designer, Michael Bush, said that MJ would lose 1-2 inches in a single night and that his costumes for the later part of the same concert would have a smaller waist size.

So I don't blame MJ for deciding to focus on his dancing (which was on another level during the HIStory tour compared to the Bad tour) and trying to complete a world tour without going through the immense strain that he did during the Dangerous tour. The HIStory tour only had one cancelled concert and that was the one just after Princess Diana's death.

As for which performance would be better, I think it depends on the song. I don't watch You are not alone from the HIStory tour because it was lip-synced but I enjoy Billie Jean from the HIStory tour just as much as the other performances.
 
aazzaabb said:
Agree. In retrospect, he was in no fit state to do the This Is It shows, and knowing what we know now about what went on behind the scenes, a person can't honestly take that information and suggest otherwise, especially after hearing Kenny Ortega (a man that loved MJ dearly) account when he gave evidence.
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I agree someone can't take the very public information about what went on and try to make it positive but unfortunately people like to live in denial of facts as it preserves the image of MJ they have. I have stated various facts on here and they were dismissed as lying (as if people would be lying about MJ's condition in private emails they never thought would be public). Anyway, I digress.
 
analogue said:
It's unfair to compare rehearsals to actual shows.

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I think the fact he needed drugs to even perform at the level we see him performing in the film says it all honestly. He was taking ephedrine shots just to be able to perform.
 
analogue said:
It's unfair to compare rehearsals to actual shows.

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Michael in 1988, was a much more vigorous and capable Michael than the man we see in 2009.
A decline in Michael's dancing is clearly evident.
Just look at his dancing in April 2009 when he is doing the "Ghost Routine" in comparison to him in June 2009. The difference is huge.

Michael's drug use and his health problems caused a major deterioration in his ability to perform.
He wasn't ready.
 
This Is It looked like a typical Michael Jackson rehearsal to me. And it's really unfair to judge his dancing skills based on rehearsal footage, because he never goes full out during rehearsals.

I judge This Is It by rehearsal standards, and not by actual concert standards.
 
analogue said:
This Is It looked like a typical Michael Jackson rehearsal to me. And it's really unfair to judge his dancing skills based on rehearsal footage, because he never goes full out during rehearsals.

I judge This Is It by rehearsal standards, and not by actual concert standards.
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Very true. :yes:
 
analogue said:
This Is It looked like a typical Michael Jackson rehearsal to me. And it's really unfair to judge his dancing skills based on rehearsal footage, because he never goes full out during rehearsals.

I judge This Is It by rehearsal standards, and not by actual concert standards.
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SO true
 
analogue said:
This Is It looked like a typical Michael Jackson rehearsal to me. And it's really unfair to judge his dancing skills based on rehearsal footage, because he never goes full out during rehearsals.

I judge This Is It by rehearsal standards, and not by actual concert standards.
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That's true but at the same time we have to remember that he was 50 at the time of This Is It so it's understandable to think that his dancing may have declined from the days of Bad, Dangerous and HIStory tours when he was in his 20s and 30s. Michael wasn't a young guy full of energy anymore in 2009. His dancing may have still been very good but I don't think he was as good as he was in his younger days understandingly.
 
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