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Downplaying MJ’s talents and artistry.

Themidwestcowboy

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I’m noticing a trend of downplaying every aspect of Michael’s artistry within the fan community. Of course there has always been people (media, magazine publications etc) outside of the fan community that has been trying to push this agenda since the 80s, and I do believe there are real conversations to be had regarding some of his artistic choices that he took, but I’ve seen the discourse gradually descend into:

“He wasn’t that good of a singer.
He wasn’t that good of a performer, His self composed songs weren’t as good as the songs written for him. He wasn’t that good of a dancer, he never did flips and somersaults and used pretty much the same dance moves.”

So I suppose he was this mediocre artist right? Or he just wasn’t “That good” right? Since he was a kid, people have loved and praised him for his many talents. Whether it was singing, dancing, performing, music video, songs, fashion, direction, art direction. He’s been the zeitgeist which almost every artist have emulated at one point or another. He’s still the standard to which other artists are compared and they still try to take the king of pop title and pass it to someone else. And all of this for someone who was “mediocre” or “not that good” at anything apparently. We have people saying he should be compared to Madonna when it comes to vocal prowess. Like what?? The logical conclusion to arrive at after downplaying every aspect of his artistry in the way which some people do is that he was mediocre, and that to me is utterly ridiculous. I just had to get that off my chest.
 
This is a perfect thread for what I was feeling like just now.

There have been times I've actually started to feel that way you say, and yet after every break from Michael I've taken, when I come back. I enjoy his art as hard as I always have, and appreciate his work for whole new reasons even.

It's not nostalgia. It's not hype, this ain't been about critics, not about gimmicks, not about who's the greatest. It's the pure talent and he had it in spades. And truly appreciating and understanding and Relating, to Michael.

That's why I insist not everybody loved Michael. Even in his "heyday". It didn't take dirt thrown on his name. Not everybody understood Michael. There are fairweather fans and people who didn't deserve him.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
This is a perfect thread for what I was feeling like just now.

There have been times I've actually started to feel that way you say, and yet after every break from Michael I've taken, when I come back. I enjoy his art as hard as I always have, and appreciate his work for whole new reasons even.

It's not nostalgia. It's not hype, this ain't been about critics, not about gimmicks, not about who's the greatest. It's the pure talent and he had it in spades. And truly appreciating and understanding and Relating, to Michael.

That's why I insist not everybody loved Michael. Even in his "heyday". It didn't take dirt thrown on his name. Not everybody understood Michael. There are fairweather fans and people who didn't deserve him.
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Perfectly put. All of it but especially the bolded part
 
analogue said:
For me doing flips and somersaults isn't dancing. That's doing gymnastics. It's really cool and impressive to watch, but it's not dancing.
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Yes I agree with you. To me, break dancing is an extension of dancing. More so than doing flips. I’m far more impressed when people incorporate breakdancing than flips.
 
Its because very few of the active fans, on forums or on social media actually experienced any part of Michaels career in real time and have no understanding of the music industry before the internet. All of their opinions and views are based of the music industry today, the streaming generation and social media, and very few really truely understand how much Michael changed the culture of the music industry in real time.

I dont take any notice of these things, I just look with pity on those who say them.
 
Honestly I feel like there's only one or two here actually doing that, not something I pay much attention to as it's become pretty standard around here now for people to just do that constantly.

Not sure it's a reflection of the entire fan community.
 
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It's usually the people approaching Michaels age too. Cynical people who've "outgrown" it.
 
His talent has always been downplayed by the art crowd. To this day many people don’t realize Michael wrote a lot of his own songs and they hate his hiccups and oohs and ahs. Extending this they see him as a dancer first and not a singer and dancing is subpar to playing instruments for a musician/singer in the eyes of the art crowd. Also his start with his brothers is seen as nothing but a manufactured boysband and most of the time nobody can shake of that attitude among music fans.

In the fanbase itself I see no problem. Some see him as a God who can do no wrong musically and others are more nuanced and have their favorite eras which doesn’t make them lesser fans. Michael had 3 or 4 distinct different periods musically, it is natural not everyone rates all of them equally high. As a performer I think a lot of the criticism is absolutely warranted.
 
MJ as a performer was basically unmatched until 92. 88 or so if you wanna be more stringent, 84-87 if you're a complete purist.


The point is he was so good there's no contest. People take that for granted so they actually go looking for the more flawed times, and admittedly there are way more HIStory concerts than Triumph yours.

As it is, today's talent have so many advantages. AI, melodyne, studio quality microphones for live singing. It's insane that with none of that, MJ still tried his best even when he wasn't at his best.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
Well I don't consider you in Michael's age group I guess lol
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I'm literally the same age as him. :D

Mister_Jay_Tee said:
Technically you've surpassed it...
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I love the way your mind works. I can't always follow it (as here, lol) but I love it, anyway. :ROFLMAO:

filmandmusic said:
His talent has always been downplayed by the art crowd. To this day many people don’t realize Michael wrote a lot of his own songs and they hate his hiccups and oohs and ahs. [...]
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There is so much about Michael that I love but particularly want to highlight this. I love all of this. I wouldn't trade it for anything. Drives me crazy when his so-called verbal 'tics' get criticised. They add so much ...
 
“He wasn’t that good of a singer."

I do not agree. He had a crazy voice! Over time, he locked himself into his facial expressions and without showing the extent but when we listen to his live and studio performances, particularly the first albums and especially his voice from the Jackson 5 era, we cannot even classify Michael in the Top 2000 most overrated singers.

“He wasn’t that good of a performer”


“His self-composed songs weren’t as good as the songs written for him.”

Billie Jean, Beat It, WBSS, Liberian Girl, Dirty Diana, Smooth Criminal, Heal The World, Black or White, Will You Be There and I'm not mentioning others... but just mentioning these exclusively written titles, composed and produced by Michael Joe Jackson prove that this argument does not hold water at least according to my perception of things. Next.

“He wasn’t that good of a dancer, he never did flips and somersaults and used pretty much the same dance moves.”

Hahahahaha, I'm definitely going to get my throat cut by some people but here, I kind of agree... When we see what his sister Janet was doing at the same time, I find it quite weak in comparison. However, he knew how to dance very well, his body and movements were graceful and he was muscular and agile enough to have strengths in dancing. Afterwards, it's a question of repetitive pattern. He danced extremely well but he always practiced the same movements. He stuck to the same style without going any further over time and his movements were sloppier from the History era onwards.

If only he would have done at least one somersault... Besides, I'm sure he knew how to do them xD
 
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