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Estate, Cascio and Porte Sued Over Three Songs on the "Michael" Album - Vera Senova Class Action

Re: Estate, Cascio and Porte Sued Over Three Songs on the "Michael" Album - Vera Senova Class Action

kai said:
Can you tell us a part with MJ lead vocals? for example on breaking news? Which minute/second?
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He can't or he won't. As I understood his response here is that he thinks the lead vocals of the impersonator (Jason sound alike guy whoever it is) are Michael Jackson's vocals. And also that Jason (in his opinion Michael) and James Porte sings the leads together for some unexplained reason as Michael Jackson couldn't sing.
 
Re: Estate, Cascio and Porte Sued Over Three Songs on the "Michael" Album - Vera Senova Class Action

alxizzle said:
is Keep Your Head Up at least written by MJ?
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We don't know. Probably no. Like any of these 12 fake songs.
 
Pentum;4229326 said:
No, this is James Porte, doing most of the background vocals on the Cascio songs. The songs were originally recorded by him, doing the lead vocals, but those are not available. Maybe they are present in the multitracks, I don't know. Korgnex might know, as he clearly has the/some multitracks.



Here is James Porte on a Cascio song: https://instaud.io/2CeE
Here is Jason Malachi, same Cascio song, different part of the song: https://instaud.io/2CeG

AND here is a clip of Jason doing the same type of vocals on his own released song, followed up by the previous clip from the Cascio song: https://instaud.io/2CeR
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Awesome stuff. Thought I recognised the voice, he does BG vocals throughout the stunning 12 tracks we’ve been lucky enough to hear and even have released under MJ name
 
Re: Estate, Cascio and Porte Sued Over Three Songs on the "Michael" Album - Vera Senova Class Action

SmoothGangsta said:
I clearly misunderstood haha. I still stand by what I said in general though.
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I realise the importance of being accurate.

But if that's all you're going to complain about...
 
Re: Estate, Cascio and Porte Sued Over Three Songs on the "Michael" Album - Vera Senova Class Action

SmoothGangsta said:
I don't think MJ was even shown these songs. They were created after he died.
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That at least we know is not the case: I have correspondence with a producer who received the Cascio tracks -- back then sung by Porte -- and was asked to remix them as they "would soon be recorded by MJ". The producer teased this important work on his web site -- without mentioning the big-name singer those tracks were for -- and that was BEFORE MJ's death.

In correspondence with me, the producer said he'd joked with Eddie Cascio about how Porte sounded like MJ.

So this is not evidence that MJ had actually heard of the songs or promised to record them in London, but it IS evidence that Cascio expected MJ to record the songs in London -- whether that was wishful thinking or him believing a quick promise made by MJ with no intention of following up.
 
Re: Estate, Cascio and Porte Sued Over Three Songs on the "Michael" Album - Vera Senova Class Action

kreen said:
That at least we know is not the case: I have correspondence with a producer who received the Cascio tracks -- back then sung by Porte -- and was asked to remix them as they "would soon be recorded by MJ".
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Yeah, but how many songs? Not for sure all 12. If I remember correctly, the guy worked only on Keep Your Head Up demo by James Porte. Or was it 2 more songs.. something like that. Not all of them.

So the probability that majority of them were written and recorded after MJ died is extremely high.
 
Re: Estate, Cascio and Porte Sued Over Three Songs on the "Michael" Album - Vera Senova Class Action

OnirMJ said:
Yeah, but how many songs? Not for sure all 12. If I remember correctly, the guy worked only on Keep Your Head Up demo by James Porte. Or was it 2 more songs.. something like that. Not all of them.

So the probability that majority of them were written and recorded after MJ died is extremely high.
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Yeah, if I remember correctly it was just two or three songs that were finished before he died. With Porte singing.
 
Re: Estate, Cascio and Porte Sued Over Three Songs on the "Michael" Album - Vera Senova Class Action

All in all I am utterly disgusted by the way Sony Music and Estate have been handling and managing all this situation by hiding themselves behind the first amendment. But I am not surprised, they knew it from the very beginning and their wordings on the album Michael was carefully chosen. Nowhere do they say that Michael Jackson sings the lead vocals on those three infamous tracks. So technically they are unattackable. As a matter of fact even if they admit one day that the lead vocals on those three songs are not MJ's, they can still defend themselves by saying "we never claimed MJ's sang the lead vocals". They already kinda play the card "we didn't know, Cascios and Porte are to blame."

How low!
 
Re: Estate, Cascio and Porte Sued Over Three Songs on the "Michael" Album - Vera Senova Class Action

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
All in all I am utterly disgusted by the way Sony Music and Estate have been handling and managing all this situation by hiding themselves behind the first amendment. But I am not surprised, they knew it from the very beginning and their wordings on the album Michael was carefully chosen. Nowhere do they say that Michael Jackson sings the lead vocals on those three infamous tracks. So technically they are unattackable. As a matter of fact even if they admit one day that the lead vocals on those three songs are not MJ's, they can still defend themselves by saying "we never claimed MJ's sang the lead vocals". They already kinda play the card "we didn't know, Cascios and Porte are to blame."

How low!
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Yeah pretty shitty behaviour on their part since this controversy started. I do feel they were initially tricked, but they should have had enough integrity to scrap these tracks once any doubt was raised and properly investigate. It's clear they want nothing to do with this and putting it all on Cascios.
 
It took MJ roughly 2 to 4 years to make an album.
Yet he managed to do a full album in a few months in 2007? Very hard to believe.

12 songs are been recorded enough to make a full album. Coincidence? What was their plan originally?
To release an album of only the fake Cascio tracks?

We all know that MJ record many demos and write lyric on a piece of paper, video record everything he does.
Yet no evidence of any of that. Last time I heard, Eddie Cascio said his computer broke down. Really??

In 2007 MJ’s voices has extremely matured, yet the singer on the Cascio track sound like someone in his 20’s

Michael alway (ALWAYS!) calls Seth Riggs before a song before he records it. Yet for the Cascio teach he didn’t...

1+1=2
 
BUMPER SNIPPET;4229481 said:
BTW, Pentium, Kreep, OnirJM, SoCalf, and co nice to see you back again.
Arklove shut up again.
Casionex, still having troubles to hear the difference between a Korg synthesizer and a Casio one? :p
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Hahahaha! Nice to see you back also! Dobrodošao natrag ;)
 
StellaJackson;4229258 said:
Faking Michael is an investigative podcast series detailing the 8-year quest for the truth about a collection of 12 allegedly-fake Michael Jackson songs. The songs, known as the Cascio tracks, were sold to Sony by Jackson’s longtime friend, music producer Eddie Cascio, and his collaborative partner, James Porte, in mid 2010 — a year after the singer’s sudden death. Upon hearing them, members of the Jackson family, a number of producers who worked with Michael throughout his career, and thousands of fans around the world accused Cascio and Porte of fraud, insisting that the songs were fakes — sung not by Jackson, but by an impersonator. Undeterred by the controversy, Jackson’s estate and record label insisted the vocals were authentic, officially attributing the Cascio tracks to the King of Pop when three of them were released by Epic Records on the Michael album in December 2010. But strong doubts regarding the authenticity of the tracks remain.


https://itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/faking-michael/id1434372710?mt=2&i=1000418631848
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The trailer is up on YouTube now too:

[video=youtube;NF8LLcUSMWA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NF8LLcUSMWA[/video]

Very excited to hear everything Damien has uncovered over the past 8 years.
 
Re: Estate, Cascio and Porte Sued Over Three Songs on the "Michael" Album - Vera Senova Class Action

SoCav said:
The trailer is up on YouTube now too:


Very excited to hear everything Damien has uncovered over the past 8 years.
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I'm curious about this. Do you think anyone he has interviewed will actually say "those songs are fake"?
 
Re: Estate, Cascio and Porte Sued Over Three Songs on the "Michael" Album - Vera Senova Class Action

^Why not? Michael Prince basically already says that in the trailer at 1.43, right?
 
Re: Estate, Cascio and Porte Sued Over Three Songs on the "Michael" Album - Vera Senova Class Action

SoCav said:
^Why not? Michael Prince basically already says that in the trailer at 1.43, right?
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I'm just saying I won't be surprised if nothing conclusive comes out of this. I'm still interested though.
 
Re: Estate, Cascio and Porte Sued Over Three Songs on the "Michael" Album - Vera Senova Class Action

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
All in all I am utterly disgusted by the way Sony Music and Estate have been handling and managing all this situation by hiding themselves behind the first amendment. But I am not surprised, they knew it from the very beginning and their wordings on the album Michael was carefully chosen. Nowhere do they say that Michael Jackson sings the lead vocals on those three infamous tracks. So technically they are unattackable. As a matter of fact even if they admit one day that the lead vocals on those three songs are not MJ's, they can still defend themselves by saying "we never claimed MJ's sang the lead vocals". They already kinda play the card "we didn't know, Cascios and Porte are to blame."

How low!
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They're all about covering their own backsides, rather than doing right by Michael (and his fans). They don't deserve our trust or support.
 
Re: Estate, Cascio and Porte Sued Over Three Songs on the "Michael" Album - Vera Senova Class Action

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
All in all I am utterly disgusted by the way Sony Music and Estate have been handling and managing all this situation by hiding themselves behind the first amendment. But I am not surprised, they knew it from the very beginning and their wordings on the album Michael was carefully chosen. Nowhere do they say that Michael Jackson sings the lead vocals on those three infamous tracks. So technically they are unattackable. As a matter of fact even if they admit one day that the lead vocals on those three songs are not MJ's, they can still defend themselves by saying "we never claimed MJ's sang the lead vocals". They already kinda play the card "we didn't know, Cascios and Porte are to blame."

How low!
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But if they release an album with MJs name on it saying the new MICHAEL JACKSON album.. isn't this the same as claiming that those are MJ songs?
I mean come on... it's like i am releasing an album of myself with my name as the artist on it. And later people find out i didn't sing anything. So i can say "i never said its me on the album.." but by releasing an album with my name i already "confirmed" that it's me..
 
Re: Estate, Cascio and Porte Sued Over Three Songs on the "Michael" Album - Vera Senova Class Action

^ According to US Californian state law it is very well fraud if the plaintiff can prove it. The court of appeal's decision did not make any statement on the actual matter and did NOT(!!!) - unlike some fans who don't understand jack - set a precedence for claiming whatever one wants for selling forgeries within the law. Only laymen like S-h_ields would interpret it like this (see the usual suspects' immature Twitter rants about things they clearly don't understand).

It only ruled on the anti-SLAPP motion and concluded that the plaintiff's lawyers could not involve the specific examples they have given against Sony Music / The Michael Jackson Estate because they did not fall under "commercial speech", thus having them protected by the First Amendment (freedom of expression in this case).

The court has not ruled on the issue whether Sony Music / The Michael Jackson might have deceived consumers and thus committed fraud which makes them liable (even if they were duped [in that case they would be damaged themselves and could take legal steps against Cascio/Porte - this is called regress]).
There's constructive fraud that does only require misrepresentation (which in this case could only be decided in a trial and not pre-trial at all).
In general a court only decides on issues presented to it by the parties involved, so it's all up to the plaintiff's and defendant's lawyers to make stuff relevant to the case.


In order to still go after Sony Music / The Michael Jackson Estate there needs to be a more clearly phrased rights violation of consumers - the US Californian civil code provides some suitable - that does not require "commercial speech" eg.

I've explained already how Sony Music / The Michael Jackson would have to enter trial before they could disprove the charges against them instead of easily throwing them off pre-trial like it has just happened (only for now if Serova's lawyers understand the issue they've brought to the plaintiff in that regard).
 
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Just one question at the end he says that Breaking News is not sung by Michael. And he also says that Monster is considered to be sung by the same singer.

But he says not really much about Keep Your Head Up?

I mean you can definitely say that they are sung by the same person, but he doesn’t really say that, does he?

Very interesting analysis! Proved that Breaking News is not sung by Michael
 
Slave To The Rhythm;4229963 said:
Just one question at the end he says that Breaking News is not sung by Michael. And he also says that Monster is considered to be sung by the same singer.

But he says not really much about Keep Your Head Up?

I mean you can definitely say that they are sung by the same person, but he doesn’t really say that, does he?

Very interesting analysis! Proved that Breaking News is not sung by Michael
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Let me just give you a hint that you needed a forensic report to back up a fraud claim in a trial (since the allegedly fraudulent songs have been protected by forensic reports themselves). Dr. Papcun's report is not as strong as it is being presented now. Vera knows that, the defendants know it, too. Taking this to the public won't help the case. What he could do was very limited and he was not - unlike Damien has claimed earlier - able to access the source material, he had to rely on released/leaked material. Also there's absolutely nothing conclusive regarding what Damien claims to be evidence of linking the recordings to Jason Malachi which remains a sore spot.
Over the coming months you'll get an insight into Damien's state of mind and modus operandi but there won't be any "evidence", only stuff he and his pals might consider for themselves as such.


Damien's remarks regarding the appeal court's decision are again false. Sony/Estate would in no way be allowed by US law to continue selling songs by another artist yet labelled as MJ IF that was proven in a trial. The ruling on the commercial speech has nothing to do with that at all. The relevant US law that clearly state that this would be fraud can easily be found online, if only people like him would actually learn to understand how the law works.
 
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Re: Estate, Cascio and Porte Sued Over Three Songs on the "Michael" Album - Vera Senova Class Action

Korgnex said:
Let me just give you a hint that you needed a forensic report to back up a fraud claim in a trial (since the allegedly fraudulent songs have been protected by forensic reports themselves). Dr. Papcun's report is not as strong as it is being presented now.
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We have a highly renowned forensic audiologist concluding, on the basis of his detailed forensic analysis, that the singer is not MJ. I agree that this kind of analysis on its own is not conclusive evidence, but it is certainly a strong piece of the puzzle.

On the other side of the argument, we have nothing. The Estate claims that they had the songs analyzed too, but we have not seen those reports thus have nothing to rely on. Heck, they did not even tell us who conducted their analysis. It was also done overnight, whereas Papcun took his time to do a much more detailed analysis. In addition to that, all we have is an inaccurate description by The Estate about their meeting with Michael's former producers and the myriad of contradictory and nonsense excuses Cascio/Porte have mentioned (from PVC pipes to shower acoustics to MJ requesting to destroy hard drives, etc).

Korgnex said:
Also there's absolutely nothing conclusive regarding what Damien claims to be evidence of linking the recordings to Jason Malachi which remains a sore spot.
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He does not say it is conclusive evidence. The point of Dr. Papcun's analysis was not to assess whether the singer is Jason Malachi, only to test the hypothesis that it is Michael Jackson. The latter, he rejects on the basis of his investigation. Because Jason has been named as the singer by others (and Howard Weitzman even says he called him), he did briefly look at Jason as well. Although that analysis was not detailed enough to warrant drawing strong conclusions, he does conclude that the vocal characteristics on the Cascio tracks are similar to Jason's.
 
Re: Estate, Cascio and Porte Sued Over Three Songs on the "Michael" Album - Vera Senova Class Action

Just confirms and puts into technical format what most of us knew all along. Michael Jackson can sing. The lead singer on the Cascio tracks cannot. That's been very clear to most from the beginning.
 
WildStyle;4229993 said:
Just confirms and puts into technical format what most of us knew all along. Michael Jackson can sing. The lead singer on the Cascio tracks cannot. That's been very clear to most from the beginning.
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Wouldn‘t say that. Keep Your Head Up is a good song... it‘s just a different Voice... not as good but certainly not that bad.
 
Re: Estate, Cascio and Porte Sued Over Three Songs on the "Michael" Album - Vera Senova Class Action

Doesn't the ultimate answer to this question lie -- physically -- in the US Copyright Office? Cascio copyrighted a CD recording like two days after MJ's death, and the copyright notice claims that this CD contains vocals by MJ.

Isn't there a way for lawyers through a court action to inventory what's on the CD? The question would be whether the CD contains MJ singing the songs, and if so, whether those tracks are the same as what was eventually released\leaked.
 
Re: Estate, Cascio and Porte Sued Over Three Songs on the "Michael" Album - Vera Senova Class Action

kreen said:
Doesn't the ultimate answer to this question lie -- physically -- in the US Copyright Office? Cascio copyrighted a CD recording like two days after MJ's death, and the copyright notice claims that this CD contains vocals by MJ.

Isn't there a way for lawyers through a court action to inventory what's on the CD? The question would be whether the CD contains MJ singing the songs, and if so, whether those tracks are the same as what was eventually released\leaked.
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Those collections copyrighted in June of 2009 contain songs with James Porte's vocals. Not MJ's, and not Cascio tracks vocalist's.
 
Re: Estate, Cascio and Porte Sued Over Three Songs on the "Michael" Album - Vera Senova Class Action

SoCav said:
I agree that this kind of analysis on its own is not conclusive evidence, but it is certainly a strong piece of the puzzle.
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If it's not conclusive, it cannot be strong, right? Because it simply is logical that you could have an audiologist conclude the other way since it is within the realm of possibilities. This report simply served its purpose but you should expect its shortcomings to be demonstrated.


SoCav said:
Papcun took his time to do a much more detailed analysis.
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You haven't seen theirs but yet you claim Papcun's would be more detailed. I wouldn't call a different approach - due to lack of source material - to be "much more detailed", that's raising expectations that it simply won't live up to.


SoCav said:
The point of Dr. Papcun's analysis was not to assess whether the singer is Jason Malachi
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This is known since it was made. Yet Damien is again writing sensational ficitional stories about it being hard "evidence" for just that. This is just wrong and highly misleading as usual.
 
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