How Would You Rate The MJ Illusion Performance?

[sfosteredi]

I vote Good. At first i was not please with it but as i watch it over and over again i began to like it more and more STTR is one of my favor on Xscape cd. It was not perfect and the moves would not there but their tried and i give the Estate credit on that. It will be better next time.

I agree with you pminton. And I've been a fan since Motown 25, which was 31 years ago.

 

[Morphine19772014]

I too appreciate the performance of the hologram but against loved the remix!

 

[Tygger]

Now that charting information has been posted, I do not believe this promotion was as effective as previous promotion for Xscape. The Estate took a risk and I support that aspect as I have supported previous promotions however; the focus became the VV spectacle and not Michael’s vocals.

Putting focus on Michael's vocals and the producers' respectful re-work is the key to Xscape's success. Tricks are not necessary to support a quality product and tricks do not necessarily support a quality product; they oftentimes distract.

 

[ivy]

Now that charting information has been posted, I do not believe this promotion was as effective as previous promotion for Xscape.

I think you spoke too soon as chart information is still being announced for USA.

As predicted STTR has entered Hot 100 at number 45. 75% of it coming from streaming. It is also number 11 on streaming songs chart. It also moved up 26 places and number 12 on Hot R&B songs chart.

Xscape is also holding up nicely. every album sales goes down second and following weeks. Xscape only dropped to #3 where as Black Keys have experienced a more sharper drop.

@WhoIsIt89 I think your questions are also answered by this weeks chart. Billie Jean entered to the charts due to the viral video of high school talent show. Currently it is outperforming LNFSG and STTR. I believe this shows that even though the new "comtemporized" songs performing decently, nothing can beat the originals/classics.

 

[Korlay]

I voted fantastic for the effort put into it.. just wish the album version of Slave to the Rhythm had the same breakdown as the billboard performance.

 

[jjason782]

I voted poor be cause they lied to the public and made them think they were watching a holographic projection of a recorded MJ performance. It was not MJ and it was not a hologram. It was just a 2D video recording of an impersonator. If not for the deception I would just consider it entertaining.

 

[Tygger]

Ivy, excellent news! Yes, my post was before the Billboard news. I thought the charts were completed Wednesday. I will review the charts’ thread on Thursday in the future. Good thing another tribute with a random dancer was so successful Billie Jean is above STTR!

To WhoIsIt89’s point: the video of the nine year old may go viral as MJ.com is promoting it however; who is going to tell this young performer he is not imitating his musical hero?

Estate/Sony: VV served his purpose but, I truly hope this in no way encourages you to pull this stunt again. The ends do not always justify the means. Consider yourselves lucky this go-around.

 

[AtlasAir]

I voted poor be cause they lied to the public and made them think they were watching a holographic projection of a recorded MJ performance. It was not MJ and it was not a hologram. It was just a 2D video recording of an impersonator. If not for the deception I would just consider it entertaining.

The only deception was saying it was completely cgi.
They never said it was made up of some old performance footage.

 

[Tygger]

The only deception was saying it was completely cgi.
They never said it was made up of some old performance footage.

The CGI would be based on old performance footage. There was no CGI except covering Valentino's face with 2D pictures of Michael.

 

[AtlasAir]

Yeah, I know. It was impersonator+altering face.

But the people who made it are saying basically they created it in a computer.
It's like GURL PLZ

 

[Tygger]

^^Understood.

 

[WhoIsIt89]

The CGI would be based on old performance footage. There was no CGI except covering Valentino's face with 2D pictures of Michael.

Not only that but it was reported that it would indeed be based on past performance footage. I know the Estate didn't say that themselves, but the reporter had to get it from somewhere. That's all I'm saying..

According to what I've been hearing, while the performance helped album promotion, it really hasn't helped all that much as far as the US goes. Again, according to what I've read, not stating this for a fact because I truly don't know how accurate it is. But according to some it hasn't even had that much of an impact on the general public (the album), and this was done in hopes of bringing that attention to the album. If so, and if it's true, that's one indication of a flunk. It's still in the top 40, but as Ivy mentioned, Billie Jean has rose up from the depths of obscurity to #14, two spots ahead of LNFSG. STTR seems to have peaked at 45, but that's only after one week. We have to see for sure how much of an impact it had towards the album's success, but I just don't think it was as impactful as some seem to be claiming.

 

[ivy]

According to what I've been hearing, while the performance helped album promotion, it really hasn't helped all that much as far as the US goes. We have to see for sure how much of an impact it had towards the album's success, but I just don't think it was as impactful as some seem to be claiming.

It'll be hard to impossible to determine what is contributing to the album sales and what isn't. I recommend reading the chart thread. For example I learned that an average album sees 70% drop in their sales in second week and Coldplay is expected to see an 80% drop in sales in second week. Xscape had 58% drop in sales so it's performing better than an average album. This above average performance could also be seen from comparison to Black Keys. Black Keys dropped to number 5 from number 1 (with 66% drop in sales), while MJ dropped to number 3 from number 2. So right now I would classify Xscape as an above average performing album and not a flunk.

Why this above average performance? That's the hard part to pinpoint to a specific reason. It could be due to simply people wanting a MJ album, albums quality, people involved and yes promotion and attention creating events such as hologram and even the random high school students tribute performance might be contributing to the sales. I don't think we can say for sure either way.

As for the next week STTR and probably Billie Jean would drop on the list. Both benefited from a performance that went viral - all TV shows in US mentioned both the hologram and the talent show - which contributed to the millions of streams and therefore the charting. As the streams decrease the chart position would drop as well. LNFSG on the other hand is benefiting from radio play and single sales and Timberlake fans. So it could have a longer time on the chart. Albums long term success is going to depend on the future promotion. Estate has said there's more to come. We'll wait and see.

 

[magiktori]

I voted poor be cause they lied to the public and made them think they were watching a holographic projection of a recorded MJ performance. It was not MJ and it was not a hologram. It was just a 2D video recording of an impersonator. If not for the deception I would just consider it entertaining.

call it what is dancers dancing to mjs new song and i wouldn't have a bad taste on my mouth about the whole deal

 

[ivy]

Minutes-long Michael Jackson hologram show cost “multiple millions”

"Digital humans, synthetic humans? We're struggling on what to call this."

by David Kravets - May 29 2014, 5:18pm EDT
COPYRIGHT INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY VIRTUALIZATION

Eyes popped at the staggering $500,000 cost to produce Michael Jackson's nearly 14-minute-long "Thriller" video in 1983. Fast forward to today, and a nearly 4-minute-long hologram performance at the recent Billboard Music Awards by a now-deceased Jackson cost "multiple millions" to make, according to Frank Patterson, the chairman of Pulse, the company that produced the show. Patterson said in a phone interview that he was still ringing up the cash register and had not yet finalized the tab.

The Jackson estate, he said, had asked Pulse to do the job. Six months later, and after countless hours of coding and "reviewing thousands of videos of Michael's work," the King of Pop was brought back to life.

Simulating Jackson's moonwalking was nothing compared to making the hair look right. "Getting the hair to act and look like Michael's hair was a feat," Patterson said. Using custom coding and animation programs like Maya and Nuke, Patterson said that Pulse remade Jackson countless times.

"We had what we thought was perfect motion and animation, but it didn't feel like Michael Jackson," he said. So the company tried "instilling humanity into the visual object," he said. Along the way, "It started giving us chills." Even so, the May 18 show in Las Vegas almost didn't happen because the owners of technology famously employed to digitally produce deceased rapper Tupac Shakur tried to block the resurrection of Jackson.

Days before the Billboard Music Awards, a Las Vegas federal judge put the brakes on an emergency injunction demand from patent holders Hologram USA and Musion Das Hologram. The patent holders claimed that Jackson's 3-D dancing and singing image would infringe two of their patents, one being the "Pepper's Ghost Illusion" that paved the way for Tupac to appear at the Coachella music festival in 2012.

US District Judge Kent Dawson, however, ruled that Hologram USA and Musion could not immediately prove that their technology would be breached when the deceased Jackson belts his posthumously produced new tune "Slave to the Rhythm."

That the show went on brings with it new worries for celebrities. To be sure, where to dine and vacation are among the stars' usual concerns. But Pulse chairman John Textor said that the time has come for celebrities to increase the vanity volume to 11 and begin mulling over their "synthetic" or "digital" image, as he described it. "We think living celebrities should be concerned now about controlling their digital likeness," Textor said in a telephone call.

He's not even sure of the words to use to describe a hologram of a human. "Digital humans, synthetic humans?" he said. "We're struggling on what to call this."

http://arstechnica.com/business/201...jackson-hologram-show-cost-multiple-millions/

 

[Koopa Troopa]

^^ I was about to post that. Even for those who don't like the performance, they can't fault the Estate for the time and money they spent on it. They did the best they could. And based on their website, Pulse Evolution seems to have a multitude of popular films on their resume, including Avatar, Star Wars, Jurassic Park, Lord of the Rings and Pirates of the Caribbean etc.

http://www.pulse.co/films/

 

[WhoIsIt89]

"We had what we thought was perfect motion and animation (Just in the hair it seems), but it still didn't feel like Michael Jackson," he said. So the company tried "instilling humanity into the visual object" he said.

By bringing in the tribute artist, right? I don't know why they keep just stepping around it, instead of just being up front, while at the same time calling it a "visual object", implying they did more than the face and hair, and computer edits to an actual body & clothes, which I don't believe they did. But oh well, it's become expected, to be honest.

 

[Birchey]

Simulating Jackson's moonwalking was nothing compared to making the hair look right. "Getting the hair to act and look like Michael's hair was a feat," Patterson said. Using custom coding and animation programs like Maya and Nuke, Patterson said that Pulse remade Jackson countless times.

This hair comment is quite funny, I have had a feeling for a while that they used a composite of both CGI hair and real hair from the impersonator, afterall they did have him on set with the MJ hair. As "VMJ" flicks his head up, the hair is moves strangely natural, as opposed to some of the closer shots where the CGI hair directly above the shoulders looks extremely bad, like Playsation 2 bad. Another thing to mention is that the hair actually clips into the impersonators body at one point, meaning it drops into his shoulder. How this thing cost so much I will never fathom, I think the Estate got royally screwed on this one.

Edit: Actually throughout the whole performance the CGI hair is constantly clipping and glitching through the Impersonators body, its probably the tracking of the head, which also bounces about alot.

 

[AtlasAir]

They could have had him with his fedora on to make it easier, and maybe just take it off at the end when he's standing still to animate it.

 

[Tygger]

Not only that but it was reported that it would indeed be based on past performance footage. I know the Estate didn't say that themselves, but the reporter had to get it from somewhere. That's all I'm saying..

Branca said it was important to experience Michael in a “live” setting. To do that, this technology team has consistently said they used past performances of Michael when they clearly have not. If they did, posters could easily identify, retrieve, and post those performances. Not ONE clip of Michael performing in this manner has been posted almost two weeks after the spectacle. Only clips of Valentino who favors the Dangerous Era (no wonder the Estate chose that period).

Interesting in Pulse’s YT clip there is no footage of anyone reviewing footage of Michael to be used. Why would Bush be needed to clothe a virtual performer?

I agree with the remainder of your post and I agree with Ivy’s response because I believe it is a mixture of both. I am happy with the success of STTR as a single because of Michael’s vocals and Timbaland’s production. Billboard has shown the majority of the charting position can be attributed to streaming whatever that was on Billboard’s stage. With this promotion, I believe the Estate lost sight of what was supposed to be the focus here: the quality of Michael’s art and creating the desire for the public to purchase it; not the costly spectacle they created and defended. The end does not justify the means here.

Six months later, and after countless hours of coding and "reviewing thousands of videos of Michael's work," the King of Pop was brought back to life.

And some fans still wonder why there were some fans so vocal against whatever that was on Billboard’s stage.

This latest article is utterly futile. The spectacle is over and there is no need for the Estate or Pulse to continue to bring attention to it. I have no clue how much was spent on this spectacle however, it is clear the Estate was either deceived and did not get what they paid for (a 100% CGI Michael compared to the VV with a sometimes CGI face) or the Estate is attempting to deceive anyone who watched the spectacle.

"We think living celebrities should be concerned now about controlling their digital likeness," Textor said in a telephone call.

Unfortunately, it is too late for Michael as per this action of his Estate but, other artists can and should learn from this. I suspect an artist like Prince, who is fiercely controlling of his image, will most likely include the proper legalese in his will and it may be the best decision he will ever make.

 

[donalb]

Minutes-long Michael Jackson hologram show cost “multiple millions”

"Digital humans, synthetic humans? We're struggling on what to call this."

by David Kravets - May 29 2014, 5:18pm EDT
COPYRIGHT INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY VIRTUALIZATION

Eyes popped at the staggering $500,000 cost to produce Michael Jackson's nearly 14-minute-long "Thriller" video in 1983. Fast forward to today, and a nearly 4-minute-long hologram performance at the recent Billboard Music Awards by a now-deceased Jackson cost "multiple millions" to make, according to Frank Patterson, the chairman of Pulse, the company that produced the show. Patterson said in a phone interview that he was still ringing up the cash register and had not yet finalized the tab.

The Jackson estate, he said, had asked Pulse to do the job. Six months later, and after countless hours of coding and "reviewing thousands of videos of Michael's work," the King of Pop was brought back to life.

Simulating Jackson's moonwalking was nothing compared to making the hair look right. "Getting the hair to act and look like Michael's hair was a feat," Patterson said. Using custom coding and animation programs like Maya and Nuke, Patterson said that Pulse remade Jackson countless times.

"We had what we thought was perfect motion and animation, but it didn't feel like Michael Jackson," he said. So the company tried "instilling humanity into the visual object," he said. Along the way, "It started giving us chills." Even so, the May 18 show in Las Vegas almost didn't happen because the owners of technology famously employed to digitally produce deceased rapper Tupac Shakur tried to block the resurrection of Jackson.

Days before the Billboard Music Awards, a Las Vegas federal judge put the brakes on an emergency injunction demand from patent holders Hologram USA and Musion Das Hologram. The patent holders claimed that Jackson's 3-D dancing and singing image would infringe two of their patents, one being the "Pepper's Ghost Illusion" that paved the way for Tupac to appear at the Coachella music festival in 2012.

US District Judge Kent Dawson, however, ruled that Hologram USA and Musion could not immediately prove that their technology would be breached when the deceased Jackson belts his posthumously produced new tune "Slave to the Rhythm."

That the show went on brings with it new worries for celebrities. To be sure, where to dine and vacation are among the stars' usual concerns. But Pulse chairman John Textor said that the time has come for celebrities to increase the vanity volume to 11 and begin mulling over their "synthetic" or "digital" image, as he described it. "We think living celebrities should be concerned now about controlling their digital likeness," Textor said in a telephone call.

He's not even sure of the words to use to describe a hologram of a human. "Digital humans, synthetic humans?" he said. "We're struggling on what to call this."

http://arstechnica.com/business/201...jackson-hologram-show-cost-multiple-millions/

It doesn't surprise me that the performance cost millions of dollars to make. Just look at the budgets of the Hollywood movies which have used this technology. Honestly, I feel some people here have unrealistic expectations. Just how many more months and millions of dollars should they have spent on this awards show performance? Anyway, glad to see that the majority of the MJJC fans who have voted so far thought the illusion was either good or fantastic

 

[HIStoric]

I think it would've been cool to see him wearing something from the This Is It tour. Wasn't against what he wore though, I liked the red pants... maybe would've changed the jacket colour but it was alright.

 

[defdave]

Fan since 1983 here. The face put me off at first but the more I've watched it, the more I've enjoyed it. I'm sure they'll continue to improve it in the future. Personally, I'd love to see them use MJ footage to create a tour. The concert could start with 3d representations of the J5, then The Jacksons, then OTW Michael, Thriller Michael, Bad Michael, Dangerous Michael, HIStory Michael, and then 2000's Michael. It could be GREAT if done right. I'd definitely buy a ticket or two.

 

[JEMFTV]

To be honest, they need 6 months to create one (nearly-) 4 minute-performance.
Wouldn't it be hard for them to create an whole concert?
Which is 1-2 hours long?!

 

[wendijane]

I am passionate about the concept I want a virtual Michael Jackson concept to succeed and in time, I think that will happen. I voted Fantastic in appreciation of the Michael Jackson's Estate showing us a tiny glimpse into the future.
Thanks for the poll : )

 

[MJMarty]

I voted good.

The idea was great, the publicity it generated for the album was great and it didn't look half bad in terms of the aesthetics.

The choreo wasn't so great and seemed very wooden next to Michael's fluidity, using the impersonator was a bad move (but possibly the only option?), and overall it seemed almost a little too exploitive in hindsight (I say that still 100% supporting XSCAPE and the three copies I bought).

I don't mind those draw backs if this was a one-off to promote XSCAPE. I never want this to be a regular thing at award shows, or on tours, etc. The tiny moment in the Cirque ONE show is perfect, that's enough. But like I said, I'd rate the overall performance good because it did give some publicity to the record and seemed generally well-received by the GP.

 

[WhoIsIt89]

I keep seeing this "You have unrealistic expectations" stuff whenever this gets criticized. What exactly is "unrealistic" about expecting Michael, when Michael is advertised, and not an impersonator? I don't get it...

Everyone here is knows enough to never expect Michael himself, to toaster himself on stage, like "Surprisee!!", nah. The fact is, they said we'd see Michael, we saw no Michael. We get it, they couldn't bring Michael back, however their are more effective ways to present Michaels actual image, and simply put, we got no actual image of Michael. That's the problem, not that they "didn't spend enough money".

 

[Koopa Troopa]

I voted good.

The idea was great, the publicity it generated for the album was great and it didn't look half bad in terms of the aesthetics.

The choreo wasn't so great and seemed very wooden next to Michael's fluidity, using the impersonator was a bad move (but possibly the only option?), and overall it seemed almost a little too exploitive in hindsight (I say that still 100% supporting XSCAPE and the three copies I bought).

I don't mind those draw backs if this was a one-off to promote XSCAPE. I never want this to be a regular thing at award shows, or on tours, etc. The tiny moment in the Cirque ONE show is perfect, that's enough. But like I said, I'd rate the overall performance good because it did give some publicity to the record and seemed generally well-received by the GP.

Indeed. On its official video the "poll" reads like this:

Likes 134 236 Don't Like 4 978

This suggests that the Estate did a good job.

 

[WhoIsIt89]

It's Youtube dude, we really shouldn't be attempting to gauge meanings based off a number of likes and dislikes. Most videos bashing Michael has more likes than dislikes, does this means they accomplished their goal of having everyone believe he was what they claim he was? Nah, not really. It's just a group of people who listen to that crap and those who don't. Just like it's a group of people who liked this and those who didn't. That's all we can draw from youtube, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[bluesky]

[h=1]EXCLUSIVE: Michael Jackson hologram could bring 'new' moonwalk to life[/h]A HOLOGRAM of Michael Jackson is to perform a “new and improved” version of his famous moonwalk on a world tour.



<header style="overflow: hidden; margin-bottom: 15px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Arial, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 30.399999618530273px; line-height: 24px;">By Mike Parker/<time pubdate="" datetime="2014-06-08T00:00:00Z" style="font-weight: 400; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Published 8th June 2014</time>
</header><section class="photo main_photo" style="position: relative; float: none; margin-bottom: 20px; overflow: hidden;">

THRILLER: New dance moves could be a treat for ***** fans [GETTY]
</section><section class="text-description" style="margin: 0px;">His estate reckons a ***** tour with revamped dance routines and new tracks from his latest posthumous album Xscape could earn a fortune.
It is hoping to capitalise later this year at venues across Europe and the US.
Fans were blown away last month when a digital image of the singer took to the stage at the annual Billboard Awards in America where his hologram belted out Slave To The Rhythm.
The astonishingly lifelike display followed the “virtual resurrection” of dead rapper Tupac Shakur who “performed” with Snoop Dogg and Dr Dre two years ago at California’s Coachella Festival.
Representatives of other dead stars including Elvis Presley, Jimi Hendrix and Frank Sinatra have said they want to develop full-blown concert tours featuring similar computer-generated images.
A media analyst said: “The latest technology uses techniques that enable previously filmed images of the stars to be manipulated to make almost any movement imaginable.
“There aren’t many minutes of genuine moonwalk footage, so creating new moves will involve a top choreographer as well as a state-of-the-art tech team to make them appear real.”
</section><section class="text-description pullquote-right" style="margin: 0px; overflow: hidden;">

“The latest technology uses techniques that enable previously filmed images of the stars to be manipulated to make almost any movement imaginable”
<cite style="display: block; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); margin: 0px; padding: 10px 20px; font-weight: 700; font-style: normal; line-height: 21px; font-family: Lato, sans-serif; text-shadow: rgba(51, 51, 51, 0.0980392) 0px 0px 1px;">A media analyst</cite>​

The new range of steps and moves has been devised by California computer effects company Digital Domain and Kenny Ortega, his This Is It tour choreographer.
A source close to Ortega, 64, said: “It’s a big dream of his to, in effect, work with Michael again using this amazing new technology.
“He ranks Michael as possibly the best dancer he has known and reckons it would be a terrific challenge to revamp his moonwalk.”
The technology made its debut more than four years ago at the 50th birthday party of X Factor boss Simon Cowell who commissioned Digital Domain boss Ed Ulbrich to bring Frank Sinatra back to life.
The resulting hologram of Ol’ Blue Eyes performing Pennies From Heaven was such a hit with guests that Ulbrich decided to refine the software to raise other stars from the dead.
Plans to use it as the basis of a “virtual tour” by ***** have, however, divided the family.
His sister Janet, 48, was so offended by her dead brother’s Billboard “appearance” that she pulled out of presenting an award at the event at the last minute.
His father Joe, 85, and elder brother Jackie, 63, were in the audience and later praised Michael’s “ghostly” appearance.
A source close to the family said: “Michael’s mom Katherine and his three children are still on the fence.
“But several other relatives are as angry as Janet and Michael’s image might eventually be moonwalking into one enormous bust-up between those who were closest to him.”
This month marks the fifth anniversary of the singer’s death at the age of 50 from a drugs overdose.


http://www.dailystar.co.uk/showbiz/...son-hologram-could-bring-new-moonwalk-to-life
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