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I think we might have a problem - definition of second degree murder in California

Autumn II said:
Right. And what I'm hoping here is that "common sense" will prevail with the jury. We don't know exactly when or on what occasions Michael was given propofol in the past, but giving it at home, without rescue equipment, does, indeed, sound like "a disaster waiting to happen." And, as it turns out, it WAS.

That's true. There is no law against it. Maybe because it's SUCH madness it's never come up before? I'm sure this will set some sort of legal precedent, just because it's so unheard of? But yeah, "common sense" among the jury could very well prevail. As in, "What WAS Murray thinking?" If he was thinking, at all?
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One the other hand, much as we hate to think about it, murray is a doctor and doctors have a certain dignity, seriousness, and sense of duty associated with them. I think the average person wants to believe that a doctor wants to do good. I have this...anxiety, I guess you'd call it, that murray will be portrayed as a wonderful caring doctor, (see the marvelous way he treats his patients from his clinic, how concerned, how caring) sure, he gave Mr. Jackson that anesthetic but it was only from a desire to help his patient, his friend get the rest he needed. Blah, blah. And then the jury will say, well, it's terrible what happened but he is a doctor and he is human and after all accidents do happen.
And then I think, naw, couldn't happen like that cause it just wouldn't make any SENSE!

I just hope any jury has more than the IQ of a turnip.
 
ivy said:
reckless behavior equals to involuntary manslaughter.

for murder 2 you need more than reckless behavior - doing something knowing that it would in great probability cause harm or death.
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Thanks for this explanation.

So, basically, murder 2 would mean that the prosecution would need to prove that Murray knew that using propofol the way he he did would probably cause harm or death ?

I'm sorry, but I really have a hard time trying to understand such a low charge. How could he not know ??? He is supposed to know the possible side effects of the drugs he gives !
 
I go along with that whole heartedly. This wasn't someone off of the streets who just wandered in. But a doctor with many years of experience. At a minimum, you would have expected him to read up on the medicine and all the attendant risks, etc. And if that memo requesting equipment and support staff was meant for when they were in London, why not while they were in Cal? Did he think there was more risk in London?

I read last year that the prosecution supposedly felt confident they could win with the lesser charge but not with second degree. Guess you have to be a lawyer to understand all this.
 
Can they still increase the charges? (now that there is a trial date)
 
Do you think there is still use in sending out letters to the D.A? It took me forever to finish writing my letter (after you all helped and explained to me exactly what malice aforethought means - thanks again for that :flowers:). I would still like to send it, eventhough it seems hopeless.

Here's my letter. I would be glad to hear your comments about it.


Dear Honorable Los Angeles Deputy District Attorney David Walgren
​
My name is Abigail Eisenbach and I'm writing on behalf of Mr. Michael Jackson's fan club in Israel to respectfully request you to consider raising the charges against Dr. Conrad Murray who was charged with involuntary manslaughter in relation to Mr. Jackson's death. I have informed myself with the California penal code and have followed Dr. Murray's preliminary hearing with great care. Based on what was presented at court I believe that there is sufficient evidence to charge Dr. Murray with murder in the second degree. I am of the belief that Dr. Murray's treatment of Mr. Jackson at the night of his death as well as his behavior after finding him not breathing is far more severe then what constitutes involuntary manslaughter and exhibits malice aforethought and is therefore murder. ​

 Dr. Murray's treatment of Mr. Jackson on June 25<sup>th</sup> 2009 was extremely reckless and exhibited an indifference to Mr. Jackson's life. From my understanding, such behavior in legal terms is referred to as "depraved heart" or "abandoned and malignant heart" and regarded as implied malice. This recklessness and indifference to Mr. Jackson's life can be seen in a series of actions undertaken by Dr. Murray on the night of Jackson's death:

- Dr. Murray administered Propofol in a non hospital setting.

- Propofol was administered without the use of the mandatory medical equipment
to monitor Mr. Jackson's vital signs necessary to insure that respiratory
depression does not occur and sound an alert in the case it does. A pulse
oximeter was not used even though it was present at the house.

- Dr. Murray was constantly on the phone around the time propofol was
administered and during the time he should have been monitoring Jackson.
This is made even worse by the fact he didn't use any medical equipment to
monitor Jackson instead of him so he should have been watching Jackson very
carefully by himself to make sure that he was breathing and not having a bad
reaction to propofol. Phone records show that Dr. Murray wasn't paying enough
attention to Jackson and instead of watching him made and received about five
calls around the time he administered propofol. Some of his phone conversations
during that time span lasted more than ten minutes and one lasted for more than
30 minutes. One conversation started on 10:29 am and lasted 22 minutes.
Since Dr. Murray said in his deposition that he gave Jackson propofol between
10:40 and 11:00 am it is even possible Murray gave Jackson propofol while
talking on the phone. Not only did he not monitor Jackson appropriately he
also left the room Jackson was in.

- After discovering Jackson's condition Dr. Murray delayed calling 911 by
approximately 20 minutes. Based on the testimony of Sade Anding it appears
Dr. Murray discovered Jackson's condition during his conversation with her which
was from 11:51 until 12:01. Instead of calling 911 immediately, he sent two text
messages (12:03, 12:04) spent valuable time for more than 10 minutes and on
12:12 called Jackson's personal assistant. 911 was only called on 12:21. By
that time it is possible Jackson was already dead for quite some time. This is
also supported by the testimony of paramedics who arrived on the scene who
indicated Jackson appeared to be dead for a while when they got to his house.

- Dr. Murray, a cardiologist, performed CPR in a manner which contradicts medical
guidelines. He performed CPR with only one hand and on a bed – a soft surface
instead of performing it on a hard surface such as the floor, as required.

- Dr. Murray lied to the paramedics who arrived at Jackson's house and also to the
doctors at the UCLA hospital were Jackson was taken. When asked what he
had given Jackson, Murray never mentioned propofol.

There was nothing involuntary in Dr. Murray's behavior. It is quite the opposite. Dr. Murray's actions were clearly reckless and they display a conscious disregard for Michael Jackson's life. Therefore, these acts, which as you have stated are an "extreme deviation from the standard of care", are acts which exhibit implied malice on Dr. Murray's part. As you have stated in your closing remarks during the preliminary hearing, "It was not Michael Jackson's time to go. Michael Jackson is not here today because of the negligence and reckless acts of Dr. Murray".

We know that a trial date has already been set but hope that the charges can still be
amended. We want nothing more than justice for Mr. Jackson. He entrusted Dr. Murray
with his life and died because of Dr. Murray's indifference.

Respectfully yours

 Abigail Eisenbach on behalf of Michael Jackson's fan club in Israel
 
It might not have any use now that the trial date has been set but you know what? You will never know if you don't try, right? At least you will have the satisfaction of knowing that you tried. You stood up for Michael and you tried to make a difference. And that is a better feeling than saying later, gee, maybe something would have been different if only...or, why didn't I...
I don't guess things are ever really hopeless as long as we have breath in our body and the desire to do. When we stop striving to do the right thing and just roll along with an attitude of why bother, it won't make any difference then I'd say that's when hopeless gains the upper hand.
 
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