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Invincible album was destined to be a failure?

Ronald Stain

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Yesterday I managed to force mysfelf to watch Michael Jackson's MSG performances ('cause I don't like them). You Rock My World, to be exact, from september 7th. And I was so disappointed... I mean, I knew, that I'll be disappointed, but I didn't know, that I'll be disappointed that much. YRMW Sep 7 performance is probably one of the worst performances in Michael's life. He was drugged, extremely sleepy, he lip-synched and did it really awful, his dancing was clumsy (moreover most of the time he was just standing there, trying to do any dance moves time to time), his adlibs were incongruos... Yep, Sep 10 performance was a little bit better, but still, Michael wasn't in shape in 2001. He needed rest and some kind of moral support. He shall go on vacation and take care of himself. Because after History period (History tour, Ghost shooting), after LMP-DR relationships, after 1999 accident, after Prince and Paris birth he was completely exhausted. He needed some time for recondition.
And now we move to main problem of this topic. Contract with Sony Music. Correct me If I'm wrong, but, according to contract, after BOTDF album Michael was commited to record brand new album. He had no opportunity to say no. That's why production of Invincible album started in October 1997. And when I realize that fact, I understand there there was no chance for his next album to be successful.... Look, we have 4 options, when Invincible album could be released: 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002. And all of these options lead to failure...
Let's take a look at first variant. If Michael released Invincible album in 1999, the album would have been well received. Innovative sounding of some songs could make this record ahead of its time. Sony could spend less money for production, and therefore they could give MJ much more money for promotion. But there is one problem, that ruin everything. Michael Jackson's health during that period. After History tour he was exhausted, he had a medicine addiction, let's not forget about 1999 accident, that made his life even worse... Could this Michael Jackson make a good music videos and a few good promotional perfomances for Invincible album? I really doubt he could. Therefore we have awful promotion again (maybe even worse than we got) and definately no tour.
Second variant is not much better. MJ is not in shape again + no tour. Theoretically MJ could make a few decent videos in 2001, but 9/11 catastrophe, that would affected promotion again...
Third option is what we got. You know, I used to defend Michael. I was sure, that in MJ vs Sony encounter MJ is the only one who was truly right. Now I understand, that both sides were in losing position. Sony gave MJ 30 million $ for Invincible prouction, then they gave him 5M$ for YRMW video, then they gave him 2M$ for Cry and were ready to give some money for Unbreakable video. They couldn't give him more money, because they knew, that without Invincible Tour there is no chance to earn a lot of money. Probably they also were afraid, that they won't recoup the budget. I can understand them. And I also understand Michael. He had plans for Invincible album. He wanted to shoot a few astonishing music videos, he wanted to creat blowing-mind choreography. But it was really risky to give the money to him. Because even when Michael was sober, he wasn't as productive as he was during 90s... And YRMW is a good example for that - the whole music video is just okay... I really love his new Bones Walk dance move, but rest of choreohraphy is pretty weak IMO. Could he do something better for Unbreakable video? Well, by chance maybe...But there is no guarantee. Same thing about canceled perfomances for songs like Whatever Happens... I don't want to imagine sleepy, drugged Michael performing this song with Carlos Santana...
Yep, there is one last option left. Michael could release Invincible in the end of 2002. Theoretically he could restore his health by that time, he would definately be healthier, maybe he could be ready for new tour. But Sony would be definatelly pissed of, because they would spend much much more money for production. And I'm sure they wouldn't give a cent for promotional videos. So, everything would depend on tour, but in 2003 more problems were wating for Michael... I doubt he would find a time to give a tour... And let's not forget about Biggie birth. So, again, Invincible fails...
In every, damn universe it's destined to fail... Well, of course, if there is universe without 1999, 2001 and 2003 accidents, then yes, it could become commercial success. But let's be realistic. With every circumstances, happened in our world, Invincible album was unwated. This album was created in a wrong time... That would be really fantastic, if MJ and Sony conctract ended after BOTDF. MJ could take a break for a few years. And then begin working on a new album... But then this album would have nothing in common with Invincible album... See, even in best world for Invincible album there is no place for this album... I'm sorry if my thoughts were too abstractive, I just wanted to share, because they chased me for a really long time
 
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I would say that Invincible was a much more mainstream album than HIStory in terms of song selection and therefore it certainly wouldn't have sold worse with the same amount of advertising. Also due to the fact that it wasn't an expensive double album. But Invincible was ill-fated for a variety of reasons that had nothing to do with the music.
 
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Richard76 was just one alt identity the original troll of this sub had concocted out of boredom. Buffalobill87 was another. Spaceship seems to be his most straight forward one.

Of course we all know his true name. It needs not be said. One can reasonably conclude who I am speaking of based on his typing patterns.
 
ChanceToDance said:
Richard76 on a Invincible thread is like a moth to a flame. It's good to have you back Richard.

And also what alt account is this now? Your 14th? Lol
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No no no no. I'm completely different person. I mean, Invincible album is not my favourite album, well, it is. But I just like a few songs from it. From global point of view I understand that golden pack albums (Dangerous, Bad, Thriller and History) is better than Invincible. Well, 'cause Invincible is literally only music, without proper music promotion
 
Hot_Street said:
I would say that Invincible was a much more mainstream album than HIStory in terms of song selection
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Nah. IMO track list was weaker than History track list. If they included songs like WHHE and Shout then it would be equal to History. But version we got is definately weaker. I mean, there are no songs like TDCAU, ES...
 
I don’t think invincible is that bad album (who am i to say, i wasn’t around that time) But still, it has some of Michael top songs and i think YRMW music video is really good

It’s not MJ’s best but it’s definitely not a failure…
 
it was a failure because people saw in MJ a weirdo and freak. especially the younger audience made jokes about him.

i was pretty much the only MJ fan back then in school and i got mocked because of that in 2001. ;p

Invincible itself is a phenomenal album.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
@Ronald Stain The more you talk the more you give yourself away. You wanna remain undetected, stop yapping. We don't wanna hear nothing
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Excuse me? I know, that he might behaved a little bit racist with you. But you won't face this experience ever ever again. I promise you. You have my word
 
Of course it was destined to fail with a terrible tracklist like that. Be glad they didn’t throw money at its promotion cause the flop would have been even bigger than it already is
 
Forgive me if this sounds foolish,but is this Richard under a new account once again,by any chance or means?
Interesting post,nonetheless..
 
filmandmusic said:
Of course it was destined to fail with a terrible tracklist like that. Be glad they didn’t throw money at its promotion cause the flop would have been even bigger than it already is
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There's plenty of great albums with worse album tracks. It's about the singles. And if the videos are cool then it wouldn't matter.
 
filmandmusic said:
Of course it was destined to fail with a terrible tracklist like that. Be glad they didn’t throw money at its promotion cause the flop would have been even bigger than it already is
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I don't think it was destined to flop, there were just too many hands on the project. I love Darkchild's work but I think the production is loud and messy on some songs and the mixes are muffled. Michael should've condensed the amount of people working on the album. He also had better songs he could've used.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
There's plenty of great albums with worse album tracks. It's about the singles. And if the videos are cool then it wouldn't matter.
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The problem of Invincible is not track list. The problem of Invincible is drugged Michael Jackson and greedy Sony. There was no future for this album, because of circumstances, created by Michael and Sony
 
BlackAnon said:
I don't think it was destined to flop, there were just too many hands on the project. I love Darkchild's work but I think the production is loud and messy on some songs and the mixes are muffled. Michael should've condensed the amount of people working on the album. He also had better songs he could've used.
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Okay, what could it chande? Michael still would be exhausted and drunk. Sony still would be greedy and impatient. You didn't understand, what I tried to say in my first post here 👆
 
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