It's another Invincible thread. But this one's different

[R1chard]

So, I was reading some reviews of the album, and the very first one on RYM says "The Best Pop Album of The 2000s. This album is mad underated the only problem I i essentially found with this album is Its Length. If it would of took 3 tracks off Preferably 2000 Watts, The Lost Children, You Are My Life which are the lows of the album this album would have been as very good."

The second one says "This should have been less than an hour long, but it passes the 75 minute mark and is just dragging by the time you hit the pretentious 'Cry'."

The third one says "The only problem of this album is that it's way too long. It clocks at nearly 80 minutes! It means, that songs like "Privacy", "You Are My Life" and especially "The Lost Children" should have been left off the project."

There's definitely a pattern going on here, and it's one myself any many on here have said as well.

So, instead of 16 tracks with some filler, let's assume the album should have 12-14 great tracks. So the rules are, you have to pick between 2 and 4 songs to delete from the album. What ones would you miss off?

 

[Fuzball]

You're missing 6 songs

 

[Mister_Jay_Tee]

I can't change my choice? Oh great.

 

[Agonum]

It’s more likely a case of follow-the-leader, which is common amongst critics.

And the album still doesn’t have any “filler.”

 

[Hot_Street]

YAML is good because of his voice, but the song itself isn't that exciting.

 

[TheXscapeR]

I can live without Heaven Can Wait, Cry and Privacy. They are... definitely not great. To be honest I feel the same about The Lost Children too, but eh if I had to pick 3 to remove, those would be my picks

 

[TheXscapeR]

YAML is good because of his voice, but the song itself isn't that exciting.

YAML is a beautiful song. It means a lot to me, and it got me through some tough times. One of my favorite songs from the album...

 

[DanGerouS-]

YAML DWA TLC
replace them with: Shout, We've Had Enough and the phenomenal GYWOOM

 

[TheXscapeR]

YAML DWA TLC
replace them with: Shout, We've Had Enough and the phenomenal GYWOOM

As much as I dislike TLC for just being another filler song, the other two do not suffer the same issues. Also, I'm happy Shout was an outtake. It is not a good song, it's just like Privacy. GYWOOM is good, yes, but not Shout. WHE is okay I guess

 

[MJImpeccable]

I think a lot of outtakes are much better than the songs that made it on the album and deserved a spot. Also there are too much ballads and songs are just too long tbh.

I wouldnt mind 2000 watts, privacy, either YAML or DWA would be gone. It replace it with Another day, GYWOOM, shout or what more can I give.

I always wonder how much of a success Invincible could have been because the album is still great.

 

[TheXscapeR]

I'd replace it with Another day, GYWOOM, shout or what more can I give.

Shout is objectively the worst Invincible outtake. I'd rather put something like Hollywood Tonight or Fall Again in it's place. You can't understand what MJ says, the song sounds low quality even in CD quality. Honestly, it just isn't a good song, even if the message is nice.

Also there are too much ballads and songs are just too long tbh.

Yep, exactly. Invincible has too many songs, and they feel like filler. I love all the songs in a way though.

I always wonder how much of a success Invincible could have been because the album is still great.

If promoted correctly, it'd probably sell 20-30 million copies. But yeah since MJ was constantly delaying the album, and also because the production cost was $30 million (literally the most expensive album of all time), Sony didn't want to promote it, although they were also kinda trying to interfere with the tracks inside the album. Kinda sad how Invincible came out, but it's still a wonderful album, despite it's flaws

 

[Hollywood_Tonight]

I can live without Heaven Can Wait, Cry and Privacy. They are... definitely not great. To be honest I feel the same about The Lost Children too, but eh if I had to pick 3 to remove, those would be my picks

I feel like if Heaven Can Wait had a better vocal and mix it would be a much better song, but everything else you mentioned including TLC should’ve been dropped.

 

[MJImpeccable]

Shout is objectively the worst Invincible outtake. I'd rather put something like Hollywood Tonight or Fall Again in it's place. You can't understand what MJ says, the song sounds low quality even in CD quality. Honestly, it just isn't a good song, even if the message is nice.


Yep, exactly. Invincible has too many songs, and they feel like filler. I love all the songs in a way though.


If promoted correctly, it'd probably sell 20-30 million copies. But yeah since MJ was constantly delaying the album, and also because the production cost was $30 million (literally the most expensive album of all time), Sony didn't want to promote it, although they were also kinda trying to interfere with the tracks inside the album. Kinda sad how Invincible came out, but it's still a wonderful album, despite it's flaws

I forget about Hollywood tonight and Fall again, those are also greats shouts. Speaking of shout, the song had potential imo.

Another flaw of invincible is that is lacks potential 'hits' songs that would do well in the charts.
I think only You rock my world and butterflies did decent but not close to reaching number 1s for example.

 

[TheXscapeR]

Another flaw of invincible is that is lacks potential 'hits' songs that would do well in the charts.
I think only You rock my world and butterflies did decent but not close to reaching number 1s for example.

If Unbreakable was promoted, it would be a number 1, no doubt. MJ and Biggie is amazing and the song itself is just incredible. I also think maybe Threatened would be a top 10 contender.

YRMW was top 10 on the Billboard charts if I recall correctly. That was the only song that went big on the Invincible album, and maybe with the right amount of promotion it'd be top 1. Perhaps Butterflies too.

 

[Hot_Street]

If Unbreakable was promoted, it would be a number 1, no doubt. MJ and Biggie is amazing and the song itself is just incredible.

The perfect moment for a release would've been after he won the trial.

 

[TheXscapeR]

The perfect moment for a release would've been after he won the trial.

YES. Would've been perfect timing!!! If only Sony wasn't that bad to him

 

[filmandmusic]

Most songs getting multiple votes says enough about how mixed our feelings are towards the album.

 

[Michaels Lover]

I would only remove one song that I can't stand and that is Heaven Can Wait

 

[AlwaysThere]

“Heaven Can Wait,” without question. Terrible track.

 

[Hollywood_Tonight]

Shout is objectively the worst Invincible outtake. I'd rather put something like Hollywood Tonight or Fall Again in it's place. You can't understand what MJ says, the song sounds low quality even in CD quality. Honestly, it just isn't a good song, even if the message is nice.

I like Shout it’s something different. Dare I say I prefer it to 2000 Watts. Critics also weren’t overly negative about it when it released as a B-side.

 

[Hollywood_Tonight]

“Heaven Can Wait,” without question. Terrible track.

Easily the worst MJ vocal of all time, but even that aside, it’s just a terrible song and feels so out of place on Invincible.

 

[ChanceToDance]

I don't hate Heaven Can Wait but I always felt like it was a much inferior version of Break Of Dawn. I would easily replace it with a song like Fall Again, A Place With No Name or People Of The World.

 

[TheXscapeR]

I like Shout it’s something different. Dare I say I prefer it to 2000 Watts. Critics also weren’t overly negative about it when it released as a B-side.

What's funny is that you called HCW as the worst MJ vocal of all time right after this post... yeah no, Shout never deserved a place in Invincible. 2000 Watts is pure Invincible, however.

 

[TheXscapeR]

I don't hate Heaven Can Wait but I always felt like it was a much inferior version of Break Of Dawn. I would easily replace it with a song like Fall Again, A Place With No Name or People Of The World.

APWNN, definitely. Good sample, good sound, one of my favorite tracks ever since before I was a fan.

 

[Hollywood_Tonight]

What's funny is that you called HCW as the worst MJ vocal of all time right after this post... yeah no, Shout never deserved a place in Invincible. 2000 Watts is pure Invincible, however.

HCW definitely is a worse vocal- the vocal is very strained. MJ sounds very off, adlibs are forced. Shout doesn’t have any of that- yes the verses are mumbled but nothing here is even remotely as atrocious as HCW. I actually quite like his vocal in the bridge, and that moment showcases his lower register better than 2000 Watts.

Also what does “pure Invincible” even mean? Considering how uneven that album is, I’m not sure one particular style dominates.

 

[TheXscapeR]

HCW definitely is a worse vocal- the vocal is very strained. MJ sounds very off, adlibs are forced. Shout doesn’t have any of that- yes the verses are mumbled but nothing here is even remotely as atrocious as HCW. I actually quite like his vocal in the bridge, and that moment showcases his lower register better than 2000 Watts.

The bridge is the only thing that saves the vocals on Shout. The rest just feels... off. Yeah, HCW vocals are certainly not great but at least I know what Michael's saying

Also what does “pure Invincible” even mean? Considering how uneven that album is, I’m not sure one particular style dominates.

I'm talking about this electronic vibe the album has... well, predominantly the Rodney tracks. This was MJ's goal, to make new instruments and make something new. 2000 Watts is an example of it, despite being a Teddy Riley track. From what I've seen in the community, this song is very divisive. You either like it or not. And honestly, I like it...

 

[R1chard]

You're missing 6 songs

On this site you can only have 10 options, so I left out the best songs.

 

[R1chard]

It’s more likely a case of follow-the-leader, which is common amongst critics.

I dunno. Those were written 2008, 2009 and 2011. Each one probably didn't read the others.

Let's face it, it's a conclusion that lots of people reach independently.

 

[R1chard]

Kinda similar to this.

If the fans selected a 12 track Invincible which songs would you choose?

We've heard quite a few Vince outtakes since it was released. Shout, Another Day, Escape, We've Had Enough etc. I always felt that Invincible would've been a much stronger album if certain songs were replaced by others etc. If you could've selected your favourite 12 songs from to make up...

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