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Michael Jackson was less involved in Off The Wall creating process comparing to Invincible album?

LiveItOffTheWall said:
Nope, Greg wrote some of the music, but MJ wrote all the lyrics. Again, it's best to fully do your research before coming in here to troll.
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Your problem is that you don't even know what you are talking about. MJ said it by himself in 1993
 
zinniabooklover said:
Discussions about OTW pop up online all the time, people battling over whether it's better than Thriller or not.
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OTW's success has been massively overshadowed by Thriller's insane sales figures & its multiple awards. Hence I think people do sort of neglect OTW's success.
 
Masonh said:
Your problem is that you don't even know what you are talking about. MJ said it by himself in 1993
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Watch MJs 1993 deposition on YouTube. It's 3 hours long but that shouldn't be a problem for such a hard-core fan as yourself. Under oath, Michael clearly states he wrote all the lyrics himself and Greg wrote some of the music.

Another fail for you 😂
 
Guys lets not fight, its not what Michael would've wanted. Either way we can all agree MJ is the undisputed GOAT and it was a privilege to breathe the same air as him.

"If you enter this world knowing you are loved and you leave this world knowing the same, then everything that happens in between can be dealt with" - Michael Jackson, The King of Pop
 
LiveItOffTheWall said:
Watch MJs 1993 deposition on YouTube. It's 3 hours long but that shouldn't be a problem for such a hard-core fan as yourself. Under oath, Michael clearly states he wrote all the lyrics himself and Greg wrote some of the music.

Another fail for you 😂
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Note that Michael said by himself during 1993 deposition, that Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough song was written with Greg Phillinganes
 
Masonh said:
Note that Michael said by himself during 1993 deposition, that Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough song was written with Greg Phillinganes
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Watch the 93 deposition (you obviously have more than enough time on your hands). Michael clearly states he wrote the song by himself. Greg did something with the music during the bridge and got an arranging credit. All this comes directly out of Michael's own mouth.

You're boring me now. Going on ignore. Bye ✌️
 
Fuzball said:
OTW's success has been massively overshadowed by Thriller's insane sales figures & its multiple awards.
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Agreed. But I think this affects all of Michael's other albums, not just OTW. Just imo.

Fuzball said:
Hence I think people do sort of neglect OTW's success.
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I take your point. OTW absolutely doesn't have the high profile of Thriller and it even lurks in the shadows of Dangerous (his magnum opus according to some people) or HIStory (hugely significant for obvious reasons). The OTW singles have videos that are not iconic in the same way as the videos from Thriller and Bad so that's part of it, I think. For Michael's fanbase the discussion will rage on forever as to which is the best / most well-known / most well-loved album. But for the general public I think the 3 Quincy albums are (probably) the ones they mostly think of when they think of Michael. And, sure, they won't know every track but they'll know the obvious songs from those albums.

I think the point I was trying to make was more about the place of OTW songs in the general culture. They are absolute fixtures on the radio playlists (or DJ sets) and not just for the R&B shows. The online discussions I've seen are not so much about the commercial success of each album, more about whether OTW is the masterpiece and Thriller was just the one that became the biggest seller. Probably not explaining myself very well. Thread doing my head in, lol.
 
Fuzball said:
It's absolutely fine if Invicible is your favourite album, but will you please stop trolling?
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I've never said, that Invincible is my favourite album, I joined this community only few days ago. My favourite album is Bad. I just don't really like people complaning that MJ wrote only 2 songs for Invincible, when he actually wrote even less for Off The Wall LP
 
@Masonh has literally been banned from the forum multiple times. He creates alternate accounts to evade the bans. He's the same ignorant troll he was when he was under the name Richard76. Just ignore him.
 
Hot_Street said:
In Threatened with its Rod Serling rap you can clearly see that Michael still had the urge for creativity.
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Sorry if I'm late to this, but I wanted to mention it.

Adding that rap felt too forced. Not to be disrespectful; I like it, but it seems to me like they were trying for a "Thriller" #2, but without the magic of the original thriller.
Most of the time, "sequels" aren't as good. But I can't deny that the groove it manages is on another level.
It's one of my favorites from the album, but adding Rod's rap felt forced and, I would say, unnecessary.

Instead, I would have done what was done in "Get Your Weight Off of Me." That instrumental break in the middle of the song has the whole flow, and there aren't a single word. Just music that definitely makes you dance.
 
Threatened song is more like a trequel to Thriller.

Keep in mind, that Michael already released Ghosts/Is It scary duo by that time.

Well, just like Thriller Michael did not write this song. I'm not actually a big fan of this one.

Threatened's probably one on the weakest songs of Invincible. While Heaven Can Wait, Heartbreaker and Whatever Happens are totally best
 
MJNTJ said:
Sorry if I'm late to this, but I wanted to mention it.

Adding that rap felt too forced. Not to be disrespectful; I like it, but it seems to me like they were trying for a "Thriller" #2, but without the magic of the original thriller.
Most of the time, "sequels" aren't as good. But I can't deny that the groove it manages is on another level.
It's one of my favorites from the album, but adding Rod's rap felt forced and, I would say, unnecessary.
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I find Threatened more creative than Thriller, and it's more personal anyway. Whether you like the song is a completely different question. But of the up-tempo tracks on Invincible, I think it's one of the better ones.
 
Hot_Street said:
I find Threatened more creative than Thriller, and it's more personal anyway. Whether you like the song is a completely different question. But of the up-tempo tracks on Invincible, I think it's one of the better ones.
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Invincible songs from worst to best:

16. 2000 Watts

15. Privacy

14. Cry

13. Invincible

12. You are My life

11. Threatened

10. Don't Walk Away

9. Butterflies

8. Speechless

7. Break of Dawn

6. The Lost Children

5. Heartbreaker

4. Heaven Can Wait

3. You Rock My World

2. Unbreakable

1. Whatever Happens
 
jasmine.uddin said:
as an adult he quoted what Michaelangelo said about binding his soul to his art. I think alot of us just didn't feel that binding with Invincible in comparison to all the other albums.
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Exactly. That's a pretty good way of looking at it. It was a generic R&B album. It could have been recorded by anyone.

Masonh said:
It's like blaming drunk man for bad driving even though he drives almost like sober person.
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Heh, you just gave me an idea for a sport like F1, where the driver has to down a beer during every pitstop.

Masonh said:
I wouldn't say that. Was musical direction of OTW album chosed by Michael? Because for Invincible it absolutely was.
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I'd say so. He obviously loved disco music at the time. He had been involved with at least 3 disco albums with his brothers. Probably wasn't in to soul as much any more, or else thought a faster-paced album would sell more.

jasmine.uddin said:
And OTW has some iconic songs, I think for me personally OTW comes across as a more cohesive album than Invincible, and that could be because Invincible did appear to have too many producers/writers.
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Yeah, too many cooks spoil the broth.

One creative idea under Quincy.

LiveItOffTheWall said:
if you like Invincible better than Off The Wall that's OK. You shouldn't need validation from other fans.
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This is what I keep trying to tell people. For some strange reason MJ fans are obsessed with other people agreeing with them. It doesn't matter. People have different tastes. It doesn't matter if you're the only person to like something. There are better things to be worried about.

LiveItOffTheWall said:
Invincible, imo, wasn't a great album for many reasons besides the number of songs he wrote or didn't write. It's certainly a very long conversation to have but someone summed it up perfectly when they said he sounded like a guest artist on his own album. Definitely not the case with Off The Wall, imo.
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Yeah, you can tell it's MJ right from the beginning of DSTYGE, and throughout every song.
 
LiveItOffTheWall said:
Invincible, imo, wasn't a great album for many reasons besides the number of songs he wrote or didn't write. It's certainly a very long conversation to have but someone summed it up perfectly when they said he sounded like a guest artist on his own album. Definitely not the case with Off The Wall, imo.
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Yeah, in someway Invincible feels no different than Michael's solo albums with Motown.

Overall, I prefer the "new", unfinished songs on TUC over the Invincible album.
 
Fuzball said:
Yeah, in someway Invincible feels no different than Michael's solo albums with Motown.

Overall, I prefer the "new", unfinished songs on TUC over the Invincible album.
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Some actual validity in this stupid discussion.

Is not Ben and Got To Be There not among some of MJs best work? Does the only "good" material qualify as the stuff Michael made? Like, a good pop song is a good pop song. If it's strictly elitism that validate your tastes then I can't respect that. Everyone has their favorites and least favorites of course. And the couple of songs MJ did create, arguably aren't among a lot of people's favorites.
 
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Some may disagree but what I love about OTW is that it is MJ at his purist. It’s not flashy and ego driven like his later work.

This is MJ before the mega fame of Thriller and the hysteria that followed.

His vocals on the album are so incredibly clean and sound fantastic.
 
He was definitely more involved with Off the Wall. While MJ only wrote one song by himself, he was still very much involved on the songs where he had a co-writer credit. On Invincible, he took co-writer credits on songs he didn't have any real input on beyond putting down vocals ("Break of Dawn", "2000 Watts", "Heaven Can Wait", etc).
 
Spaceship said:
He was definitely more involved with Off the Wall. While MJ only wrote one song by himself, he was still very much involved on the songs where he had a co-writer credit. On Invincible, he took co-writer credits on songs he didn't have any real input on beyond putting down vocals ("Break of Dawn", "2000 Watts", "Heaven Can Wait", etc).
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Note that Break of Dawn, 2000 Watts, and Heaven Can wait were co-written by Michael Jackson.

In fact there are a few songs, that have no credits for MJ as co-writer, but he still was one them.

For example Whatever Happens. MJ reworked this song so much leaving only structure as it is. But if you compare demo and MJ version, you can clearly hear his contribution.


 
jasmine.uddin said:
Good point Piek, don't you think that's always been the case though? When I listened to songs in the past by any other artists, I had no idea what albums they came from, I just liked the songs I liked and was never interested in albums. And I may have taken an interest of an artists future songs if I happened to like a song of there's. It might seem incomprehensible, but there will be people who listened to MJ like that 😂. Today we have steaming platforms, in the good old days there was radio play, and the music video channels. I think playlists have always been a thing.
I think it's only the serious fans from any artists that are more fluent in album literacy.
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You are absolutely right ... although I think the album has become even less relevant these days, because many people no longer buy music. Music stores have disappeared from shopping streets, and nowadays you hardly encounter a living room with a collection of albums. Of course there are vinyl lovers, who still buy records, but that is a niche. But yes: the album has never been obligatory to discover songs!
 
DuranDuran said:
I hear Rock With You & Don't Stop (also The Jacksons' Shake Your Body) way more on oldies radio than anything released after the Bad album. The Quincy produced stuff. The only time I hear Butterflies & You Rock My World is if I'm listening to a R&B radio station. As far as the last 2 albums are concerned, I hear You Are Not Alone the most. I hear nothing else from the HIStory album anywhere (unless you count the 1st CD. Maybe This Time Around very rarely, probably because of Biggie Smalls). Not even Scream. I hear songs from The Jackson 5 Christmas album on the radio more often and they're only played in November & December.
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I hear Remember The Time frequently.
 
Confirmed Invincible songs Michael Jackson co-wrote:

Unbreakable
Heartbreaker
Invincible
Break of dawn
Heaven Can Wait
You Rock My World
2000 Watts
Privacy
Don't Walk Away

Songs Michael Jackson wrote in solo mode:

Speechless
The Lost Children

Songs, Michael Jackson has no credits for writing:

Butterflies
Cry

Allegedly co-written songs by MJ from Invincible:

You Are My Life
Whatever Happens
Threatened
 
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