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Michael Jackson's 6th Studio album, Thriller

Blues_Away2023

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Does that title bother anybody?

For me, Thee Michael Jackson had 6 studio albums in total , starting with Off The Wall and Thriller being his second album.

Not that I'm disregarding his work as a child but he had very little creative control and although technically Thriller is his 6th album, he became the legendary MJ from 1979 onwards.

Thoughts?
 
Well technically yes, in facts the 2nd
Anyone would judge
As Invincible is technically the last, but to me the last true album is History
It's like a Marvell story :
- Opening : Off The Wall
- The Journey : Thriller, Bad & Dangerous
- Closing : History
I see it like that. But still, i understand why some like Invincible, a kind of autopilot album but misunderstood and probably underrated at some points
After all, i see more MJ's DNA in The Jacksons albums than his solo career at Motown
 
Blues_Away2023 said:
Does that title bother anybody?

For me, Thee Michael Jackson had 6 studio albums in total , starting with Off The Wall and Thriller being his second album.

Not that I'm disregarding his work as a child but he had very little creative control and although technically Thriller is his 6th album, he became the legendary MJ from 1979 onwards.

Thoughts?
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Michael Jackson started to become the legendary Michael Jackson not from 1979 onwards, but earlier because of certain songs such as 'Got To Be There' (1971), 'Ben' (1972), or 'One Day In Your Life' (1975).
R1chard said:
No.

Like it or not, MJ had 10 albums, starting with Got to Be There, Ben, Music & Me and Forever, Michael.

When people say his first was Off The Wall I just assume they're not a MJ fan and they don't know any better.
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When people say his first album was the 'Off The Wall' album, they mean that this was his first album as an adult artist.
 
R1chard said:
No.

Like it or not, MJ had 10 albums, starting with Got to Be There, Ben, Music & Me and Forever, Michael.

When people say his first was Off The Wall I just assume they're not a MJ fan and they don't know any better.
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Technically yes but those Motown albums are paint by numbers

The true start of Michael's solo career was with Off The Wall, so that's why I consider it first. His vision etc and what he wanted from music.
 
I feel like all of the albums are in the same group. It’s just that the first albums (got to be there, ben, etc…) sound a little different than the others. Not only that Michaels voice is younger but also the music is a little different

But yes it does sound a little weird saying Thriller is his 6th studio album
 
miikasillanpaa said:
I feel like all of the albums are in the same group. It’s just that the first albums (got to be there, ben, etc…) sound a little different than the others. Not only that Michaels voice is younger but also the music is a little different
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his voice was always great and the soul was there from the 70s til Break of Dawn
 
Blues_Away2023 said:
Technically yes but those Motown albums are paint by numbers
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Only in the same way that OTW and Thriller are paint by numbers.

miikasillanpaa said:
I feel like all of the albums are in the same group. It’s just that the first albums (got to be there, ben, etc…) sound a little different than the others. Not only that Michaels voice is younger but also the music is a little different
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Huh? If anything, those 4 are quite consistent with each other.

Think about it, OTW is the only disco album. Dangerous is the only "new jack swing" album (whatever that means). History is his only rap album. Blood is his only house album. Invincible is his only R&B album.

miikasillanpaa said:
But yes it does sound a little weird saying Thriller is his 6th studio album
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Huh? Saying it's his 2nd is misleading, and makes people think he's a new and inexperienced artist who's only just starting out.
 
his Motown albums offer much more than soul
for example I Wanna Be Where You Are and Love Is Here and Now You're Gone, which are early disco songs
 
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R1chard said:
Only in the same way that OTW and Thriller are paint by numbers.


Huh? If anything, those 4 are quite consistent with each other.

Think about it, OTW is the only disco album. Dangerous is the only "new jack swing" album (whatever that means). History is his only rap album. Blood is his only house album. Invincible is his only R&B album.


Huh? Saying it's his 2nd is misleading, and makes people think he's a new and inexperienced artist who's only just starting out.
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Not really, everyone knew he was in the Jackson 5 and then the Jacksons - OTW was truly his first as an adult and someone who had some form of control as a solo artist.

Those child albums are absolutely Motown standard.

MJ himself never even acknowledged those early albums. They were simply part of his education at motown.
 
Blues_Away2023 said:
OTW was truly his first as an adult
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Why such an arbitrary distinction though? He had much better vocals on all those albums than he did on BOTDF or Invincible.

Blues_Away2023 said:
ose child albums are absolutely Motown standard.
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What's the difference between those and ABC, I'll Be There and I Want You Back? Those get acknowledged, even performed live, all the way up until This Is It.

Blues_Away2023 said:
MJ himself never even acknowledged those early albums. They were simply part of his education at motown.
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This is wrong. All three of the Jacksons live albums contain several MJ early solo songs. It also doesn't change the fact that those albums gave MJ his first #1 singles in the US, Australia and the UK. And let's not forget that Ben is MJ's most released song ever. Strange you just want to erase all that.
 
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R1chard said:
This is wrong. All three of the Jacksons live albums contain several MJ early solo songs. It also doesn't change the fact that those albums gave MJ his first #1 singles in the US, Australia and the UK. And let's not forget that Ben is MJ's most released song ever. Strange you just want to erase all that.
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you've presented nothing but facts,I admit,but,to be realistic,if you'd ask the averrage music listener about Michael Jackson's "Ben" or anything (outside of the US,that is),then they'll most likely look at you like you're coming from Mars or anything (and I wouldn't blame them for that tbh,a love song sang to what it seems to be a rat,by a 12-14 year old Michael Jackson,isn't quite what I would be catching myself listening to on my free will,but yeah..the vocals are at least great,I'll give it that)..
it being his most released song barely means anything,if you ask me..it's most likely never going to show up in a dicussion with the averrage person,where you'd ask them to name five random Michael Jackson songs that they've heard or even love,in the best of cases (never outside of the US and maybe selected parts of the UK and Australia,so whatever..)
(or am I just clueless and do not actually know what I'm talking about?)
 
R1chard said:
Why such an arbitrary distinction though? He had much better vocals on all those albums than he did on BOTDF or Invincible.


What's the difference between those and ABC, I'll Be There and I Want You Back? Those get acknowledged, even performed live, all the way up until This Is It.


This is wrong. All three of the Jacksons live albums contain several MJ early solo songs. It also doesn't change the fact that those albums gave MJ his first #1 singles in the US, Australia and the UK. And let's not forget that Ben is MJ's most released song ever. Strange you just want to erase all that.
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So you believe that child Michael was a better singer than when he was an adult? That's what you're saying? Nothing wrong with that opinion he was a sublime singer as a child , phenomenal actually. I don't rate BOTDF or Invincible that much anyway, BOTDF is more like an EP, not a complete album.

Those J5 tracks are classics , nothing wrong with those at all, I'm talking as an album. Michael's solo albums as a child were forgettable save for a few gems - it was not his fault, he was a child.

I think you're missing my point completely. OTW was the start of the big Michael Jackson adult career we've all known to love. It was his album, where he had a lot of creative input and self penned songs.

Those Motown solo albums are filled with covers and confined within Motown. Do you think he had much say or control what he sang? Other than provide his vocals, do you think he did much else?

You're obviously a huge fan of his early work and I've hit a nerve.
 
Blues_Away2023 said:
So you believe that child Michael was a better singer than when he was an adult? That's what you're saying?
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Sorry for joining the discussion out of the blue,nonetheless,but I also (ironically) believe that.
The music,at least in some of the cases,say silly stuff like "ABC" (silly if being kind,mind you) could hardly be taken seriously,but the vocals were superb,as you've mentioned.
Not light years ahead of what he did as an adult,but there's still a slight difference in favour of his vocals coming from his early/earlier records,at least to me..
 
PurpleThriller said:
Sorry for joining the discussion out of the blue,nonetheless,but I also (ironically) believe that.
The music,at least in some of the cases,say silly stuff like "ABC" (silly if being kind,mind you) could hardly be taken seriously,but the vocals were superb,as you've mentioned.
Not light years ahead of what he did as an adult,but there's still a slight difference in favour of his vocals coming from his early/earlier records,at least to me..
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Michael is probably the best child singer I've ever heard in my life. There have been a lot of people who have said he was a better singer as a child.

ABC I want you back, the love you save etc are all brilliant songs, there's nothing wrong with those at all , I love the J5 stuff. It's bubblegum pop.

The point I was making was that his solo albums as a child were standard motown by numbers releases, that's it.

Michael had creative control (with Q) and knew exactly what he wanted with OTW, this was his first truly solo album as a adult. This was Michael Jackson, the start of his legendary adult career as the KOP. This is why I consider it as his first.

I hope that makes sense?
 
Blues_Away2023 said:
Michael is probably the best child singer I've ever heard in my life. There have been a lot of people who have said he was a better singer as a child.

ABC I want you back, the love you save etc are all brilliant songs, there's nothing wrong with those at all , I love the J5 stuff. It's bubblegum pop.

The point I was making was that his solo albums as a child were standard motown by numbers releases, that's it.

Michael had creative control (with Q) and knew exactly what he wanted with OTW, this was his first truly solo album as a adult. This was Michael Jackson, the start of his legendary adult career as the KOP. This is why I consider it as his first.

I hope that makes sense?
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hm,indeed,dw then )
 
PurpleThriller said:
oh,then indeed clueless I was..thank you for the information!
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I didn't say it to make you say your clueless but it is a very popular song, I think most people my age and older know "ben". Especially since it was then also covered by a Belgian child star in the 90s.

Ben, I want you back, ABC, one day in your life, farewell my summer love and occasionally I'll be there get airplay where I am from. Then during Christmas I saw mommy kissing Santa clause gets a couple of spins. Once I even heard people make the world go round.
 
Blues_Away2023 said:
MJ himself never even acknowledged those early albums. They were simply part of his education at motown.
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Then why was Ben on Number Ones?
Got to Be There, Rockin’ Robin and Ben on The Essential Michael Jackson?
Got to Be There, I Wanna Be Where You Are and Ben on The Ultimate Collection?
 
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PurpleThriller said:
you've presented nothing but facts,I admit,but,to be realistic,if you'd ask the averrage music listener about Michael Jackson's "Ben" or anything (outside of the US,that is),then they'll most likely look at you like you're coming from Mars or anything (
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I remember my music teacher at school in the 80s, had a huge amount of respect for child MJ the soul singer, but not so much for adult MJ who was merely a pop singer.

Basically, older people (I guess those who grew up in the 70s) have a different view.

PurpleThriller said:
,a love song sang to what it seems to be a rat,by a 12-14 year old Michael Jackson,isn't quite what I would be catching myself listening to on my free will
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Pearl Jam fans would. So would Crispin Glover fans.

PurpleThriller said:
,but yeah..the vocals are at least great,I'll give it that)..
it being his most released song barely means anything,if you ask me.
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It's basically been on more compilations. Gave MJ his first taste of the Oscars, etc.

Blues_Away2023 said:
So you believe that child Michael was a better singer than when he was an adult?
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Why does everything have to be better?

I'm just saying MJ had a long and celebrated career. It's just illogical that you'd want to wipe out nearly half of it.

Blues_Away2023 said:
It was his album, where he had a lot of creative input and self penned songs.
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You're putting a lot of stock on it being "his" album (even though he only wrote 30% of it).

But it's also a fairly irrelevant point. Caring about who gets writing royalties is something for the executives to care about.

For me, as a music listener, it's something far less important. When I'm listening to a song/album, I simply judge it as being good or bad. I either like it or I don't. The writer doesn't matter.

I could probably play you 10 songs and you wouldn't be able to tell me if MJ wrote them or not.

Blues_Away2023 said:
You're obviously a huge fan of his early work and I've hit a nerve.
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Huh? Not at all. I'm more of a Bad/Dangerous fan. I just don't understand the rationale of blindly dismissing half of the career of your favourite singer.

Blues_Away2023 said:
The point I was making was that his solo albums as a child were standard motown by numbers releases, that's it.
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You keep trying to use this insult, but Thriller could also be seen as a formulaic release. I don't get your criticism.
 
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Yeah, I think people only think MJ's career started in 1979 is because Sony told them it did.
 
If y'all want to holler at Forever Michael, Got to be there then go ahead ...... It's Motown standards full of covers.

I'll stick to Michael's first release as a MAN!
 
Motown wasn't just throwing some songs together to create an MJ solo album. Each of his Motown solo records sounds different than the J5 records which means they tried something different with Michael solo. A lot of the songs also just fitted MJ's character and what he pondered about as a kid. f.e. With a Childs heart (as if he and Mtown already knew he would forever retain his child heart), to make my father proud (perhaps trying to touch on Joe's heartstrings who was quite rough?), Ben (his love for animals), in our smile way, If N I was God ( making life better).
 
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