Michael - The Great Album Debate

8701girl

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why are talking bout this stupid album still- this shouldve been gone and dusted ages ago
 

Lord Szechenyi

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Honestly, it’s a solid album. To this day, I’ll still argue that it’s a better listen than Xscape.
That's such a wrong opinion I can't even know if it's a Troll

Unless you meant Xscape normal album (aka the remixes), in which case I can understand why the 2010 remixes are better than the 2014 ones

But at least Xscape is only MJ tracks, no fake tracks :D
 

Nite Line

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That's such a wrong opinion I can't even know if it's a Troll

Unless you meant Xscape normal album (aka the remixes), in which case I can understand why the 2010 remixes are better than the 2014 ones

But at least Xscape is only MJ tracks, no fake tracks :D
It’s perfectly normal opinion, in my opinion. Michael despite the 3 fake songs sounds more like a Michael Jackson album than Xscape.

Also, in my opinion, songs like Best of Joy, Behind The Mask, Much Too Soon, Hollywood Tonight are better than any songs that were released on Xscape, even better than the original versions.
 

Hess

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I actually also prefer the 7-song album Michael. - Hollywood Tonight, Best of Joy, Behind the Mask and Hold My Hand are all very strong songs. Sounds great and great vocals. - And Much Too Soon is probably my favorite song released after MJ died.

So that's 5 great great songs. - And Another Day and I Like The Way You Love Me are also OK songs, not bad at all.

To me those songs sound more true to a sound MJ would choose in 2010 compared to the sound of some of the songs on Xscape. - I do like Xscape very much - but some of the futuristic sounds on Chicago, DYKWYCA and APWNN does not sound very much like MJ's sound to me.
 

Lord Szechenyi

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songs like Best of Joy, Behind The Mask, Much Too Soon, Hollywood Tonight are better than any songs that were released on Xscape, even better than the original versions.
Behind the Mask is an awful remix
Same goes for Hollywood Tonight (which it's original version is miles better), although not remixed as badly
 

AlwaysThere

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Lord Szechenyi, do me a favor and check this out when you get a chance.

I personally prefer Michael to Xscape for four reasons:
  1. It exists for a legitimate reason (i.e., completing the project MJ was working toward).
  2. Stronger songs.
  3. More authentic production.
  4. The majority of the Xscape demos aren't very good, and are easily outdone by the remixed versions.
Michael is an album I still enjoy returning to, faults and all. In my opinion, every song measures up to (or, in some cases, surpasses) the original demos, the production is disciplined and characteristic, and it feels like something MJ himself would sign up to. Xscape is a Timbaland and co. remix album with some half-baked, occasionally disappointing demos tacked onto the tail end.
 

Nite Line

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Behind the Mask is an awful remix
Same goes for Hollywood Tonight (which it's original version is miles better), although not remixed as badly
I disagree.

I like the remixes on the Michael album and even if they are awful, I think the songs on the Michael album are overall way better than the ones on the Xscape album.
 
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AlwaysThere

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That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard

Other than perhaps Love Never Felt So Good, all of the remixes on Xscape sound like noise, not even music
Maybe that link didn't register. Let's try this one.

Personally, I think that the remixes of "Chicago" and "A Place with No Name" blow the originals out of the water. Even "Slave to the Rhythm," which isn't very impressive at all, sounds better than the arcade-sounding demo. The only originals that I think equal or surpass the remixes are "Loving You," "Do You Know Where Your Children Are," "Blue Gangsta," and the title track. The other four don't even come close.
 

Lord Szechenyi

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Maybe that link didn't register. Let's try this one.
This is the Internet, not real life
and in any case, it won't matter what both of us say, our opinions will not change
Personally, I think that the remixes of "Chicago" and "A Place with No Name" blow the originals out of the water. Even "Slave to the Rhythm," which isn't very impressive at all, sounds better than the arcade-sounding demo. The only originals that I think equal or surpass the remixes are "Loving You," "Do You Know Where Your Children Are," "Blue Gangsta," and the title track. The other four don't even come close.
Surprised that someone who likes "much too soon" dislikes the original version of "A place with no name"
 

Hess

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This is the Internet, not real life
and in any case, it won't matter what both of us say, our opinions will not change

Surprised that someone who likes "much too soon" dislikes the original version of "A place with no name"
I think it was me who wrote I really liked Much Too Soon.
 

Nite Line

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Surprised that someone who likes "much too soon" dislikes the original version of "A place with no name"
I prefer the remixed version of A place with no name too. It’s not that the original is bad, it’s just that I find it quite boring. The remixed version is more full of life, in my opinion.
 

AlwaysThere

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I prefer the remixed version of A place with no name too. It’s not that the original is bad, it’s just that I find it quite boring. The remixed version is more full of life, in my opinion.
Totally agree. It’s incredibly uninspired for someone like MJ; you’d think they’d do more than add drums and bass over a guitar sample. The Stargate remix is so full of life and creative. I wish they’d contributed more to Xscape.

Side note: I also adore “Much Too Soon.” John McClain, in my opinion, should be the lead producer on every posthumous album. His work is so pure and authentic. (Don’t even get me started on his cut of DYKWYCA. It’s perfect.)
 

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Side note: I also adore “Much Too Soon.” John McClain, in my opinion, should be the lead producer on every posthumous album. His work is so pure and authentic. (Don’t even get me started on his cut of DYKWYCA. It’s perfect.)

I agree. He captures the MJ sound and style and still have some 80's vibe to it - yet modern and fresh.

It's a disaster that the ruined Timbaland version of DYKWYCA ended up on Xscape. - So bad. - Worst song on the album because of the terrible production. - The Estate should realle release John McClains version as a stand-alone single - or as a b-side to a brand new song. (is it still called b-side singles these days when a single is released digitally and there is an extra bonus song?)
 

SmoothGangsta

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Michael's remixes are better than Xscape in that they at least used stuff from the songs they were re doing and finished it in a way that makes sense (even though I certainly have problems with some of them). I do think the whole finishing what Michael was working toward was entirely marketing and doesn't reflect the actual project at all, though.
 

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Are there any opportunity that someday they will release mj last tracks such as im still the king, water, dark lady and so on?
 

filmandmusic

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“Water” (the real one) hasn’t leaked. Those are the lyrics, but it’s only been heard by a select few people.
But which one of the 3 is the original "water", the one that is supposedly so good it could have been comeback worthy?
 

filmandmusic

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At what pages in this thread can I see the evidence that the 3 disputed tracks aren't MJ singing? If there is any evidence to begin with...
I personally can't be sure who's right or wrong which disappoint me as I have been listening to Michael for over 30 years now. I also find especially monster and breaking the news sounding very weird but why would there be 3 fake tracks if they had at that point still the 8 Xscape tracks to use?
Anyway I hope it is not him as it is an awful song.

Overall I'd pick the Neff U tracks as the best of the disc but they are not the original songs right? I mean are there any tracks on this record that MJ approved of before he passed away?
 
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Hess

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At what pages in this thread can I see the evidence that the 3 disputed tracks aren't MJ singing? If there is any evidence to begin with...
I personally can't be sure who's right or wrong which disappoint me as I have been listening to Michael for over 30 years now. I also find especially monster and breaking the news sounding very weird but why would there be 3 fake tracks if they had at that point still the 8 Xscape tracks to use?
Anyway I hope it is not him as it is an awful song.

Overall I'd pick the Neff U tracks as the best of the disc but they are not the original songs right? I mean are there any tracks on this record that MJ approved of before he passed away?
The fake songs was given to The Estate and SONY by Cascio. There is no doubt The Estate and SONY was tricked. They had absolutely no desire to release fake songs. They simply just trusted the wrong person - because he was actually a long-time friend to MJ, so there was no need to question Cascio.

BUT - as soon as producers and fans and others questioned the vocals, the 3 songs should have been removed instantly. But sadly The Estate and SONY kept them, and after they had first been released it was almost impossible to remove them again.

But Cascio is the one to blame - not The Estate.
 

mj_frenzy

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The fake songs was given to The Estate and SONY by Cascio. There is no doubt The Estate and SONY was tricked. They had absolutely no desire to release fake songs. They simply just trusted the wrong person - because he was actually a long-time friend to MJ, so there was no need to question Cascio.

BUT - as soon as producers and fans and others questioned the vocals, the 3 songs should have been removed instantly. But sadly The Estate and SONY kept them, and after they had first been released it was almost impossible to remove them again.

But Cascio is the one to blame - not The Estate.
Sony Music and the Estate are not going to remove these 3 Cascio songs because court ruled that they did not know if Michael Jackson sang on them or not, and as a result they were not liable for these charges against these songs.

Court also ruled that Sony Music and the Estate can legally continue to sell these songs under Michael Jackson's name even if these songs were fake.
 

AlwaysThere

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Cascio and the Estate are to blame, not Sony.

When it comes to choosing what material gets released, the Estate calls the shots and has final say. There are usually Sony representatives involved at some stage of the process — most notably senior VP John Doelp, who helped comb through the vaults for both Bad 25 and Xscape — but at the end of the day, they just release whatever they’re given. I recall hearing that Sony actually protested the remixes on Bad 25, but Branca and co. doubled down on them. The inclusion of the Cascio tracks on Michael falls squarely on Branca’s shoulders.

Also, while I understand the moral desire to have those songs removed, some people need to take off their fan glasses and look at this objectively. Pulling these songs would be a multimillion dollar endeavor that would open up both Sony and the Estate to countless lawsuits. They’ll never come off. I agree they should, but they won’t.

Honestly, I really feel as though there are more important things to worry about. Leaving Neverland 2 poses a much bigger risk at harming MJ’s legacy than three decade-old songs that most people have no idea exist. Let Damien Shields go on one of his biweekly Twitter rants about them; it’s irrelevant in the long run.
 

AlwaysThere

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But which one of the 3 is the original "water", the one that is supposedly so good it could have been comeback worthy?
That’s “H2O,” also known as “Dark Lady,” recorded around 2007-08. “Water” is a completely separate song, recorded around 2009. It gets very confusing, lol.
At what pages in this thread can I see the evidence that the 3 disputed tracks aren't MJ singing? If there is any evidence to begin with...
I personally can't be sure who's right or wrong which disappoint me as I have been listening to Michael for over 30 years now. I also find especially monster and breaking the news sounding very weird but why would there be 3 fake tracks if they had at that point still the 8 Xscape tracks to use?
Anyway I hope it is not him as it is an awful song.

Overall I'd pick the Neff U tracks as the best of the disc but they are not the original songs right? I mean are there any tracks on this record that MJ approved of before he passed away?
Sadly, there is no concrete evidence either way.

I always looked at the situation like this: the goal of Michael was to “complete” the album MJ was working on when he died. Unfortunately, most of the songs were either unavailable or unfinished. So when Eddie Cascio, a man who knew MJ for decades, pulls up with a dozen vocally-finished songs allegedly recorded in 2007, Branca leapt at the chance.

All of the songs on Michael were reproduced after MJ died; none of the mixes existed when he was alive.
 

filmandmusic

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Honestly, I really feel as though there are more important things to worry about. Leaving Neverland 2 poses a much bigger risk at harming MJ’s legacy than three decade-old songs that most people have no idea exist. Let Damien Shields go on one of his biweekly Twitter rants about them; it’s irrelevant in the long run.

I wonder what is on the cards for leaving neverland 2, the stories by Robson and Safechuck have been told so a “sequel” could only mean new accusers have come forward, that would definitely be the final nail in the coffin.
 

filmandmusic

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I've been on YouTube trying to find the original versions or demo's of the songs on "Michael". I found versions of much too soon, the way you love me and Hollywood tonight. So this leaves 4 songs that are not yet heard in its original state, right?

Anyway as with the Escape album I greatly prefer the original songs, especially Hollywood tonight is spectacularly good.
 

SmoothGangsta

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Sony and The Estate were informed by many people who were working on/ had heard the songs that they didn't believe it was MJ singing, yet still decided to proceed and even released a false statement in which they said everyone agreed it was MJ. To say they share no blame is laughable.
 
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