Michael - The Great Album Debate

[OnirMJ]

@Stella (if you can read this) and everybody else who uses the following arguments: “Breaking News” isn’t MJ because he’s never used his own name in a song before”, or “All I Need” isn’t MJ because there are no hiccups”, and other similar arguments: you must realize that those arguments are of no value. Just because someone hasn’t done something before doesn’t mean that he can’t do it at some point. I mean, if you’d told me I’d once have an MJ song called “Abortion papers” where MJ blasts a woman for having an abortion, invoking the name of God and the Bible, I would have told you you’re crazy. Yet that song exists.

He is not "blasting" anyone in Abortion papers. He's telling a story, just like in Hollywood Tonight or Do You Know Where Your Children Are. Read the booklet!

 

[kreen]

Let's go back over the evidence. Kreen, if you can answer these questions, I'd appreciate it.

12 songs appeared seemingly out of thin air sometime in 2010. Why did NO ONE know about the recordings prior to that time?

Eddie Cascio, being a longtime friend of Michael, was looked at as a seemingly trustworthy source and sold the songs for $5 million, which was a dramatic step down from his original demand of $12 million -- $1 million per song. Why would someone ask for so much for one song?

According to Eddie, all other vocal takes were deleted from hard drives because they needed room. Why would anyone uncaringly delete Michael Jackson outtakes?

Work tapes featuring Michael's vocals are rumored to exist. Why, after TWO years, haven't they been released?

Around the time of the Michael album, Michael's three children were asked to write down titles to every song that they knew/could remember Michael was working on. Why didn't a single Cascio title appear on the list? (I would believe if they forgot a majority of them and only wrote down a couple, but not a SINGLE song?)

A cappellas prove that Michael's trademark foot stomps, hand claps and finger snaps, not to mention the way certain words are pronounced and his trademark vocal hiccups, are not present. Why did Michael suddenly decide NOT to do this?

Eddie and a majority of "believers" say that Michael's age played a factor into his declining vocal performance. Yet, we have Hold My Hand and Wanna Be Startin' Somethin' 2008, both of which were recorded months afterwards. Why does Michael sound normal in those songs, but not in the Cascio songs? (Keep in mind that WBSS 2008 WAS recorded in the Cascio basement, so the belief of "amateur recording equipment" is not valid.)

Michael's children have seen him record on various occasions; Paris apparently was in the room when Michael recorded Hold My Hand. Yet, none of his children were permitted downstairs while Michael recorded the Cascio tracks? (Sneaking into a high-profile recording studio is one thing; this is someone's house. It's not necessarily difficult to just walk down a staircase and stand outside the door to listen.)

Paris and Prince both said that they heard Michael singing downstairs while at the Cascio house, but not to any of the songs that came from Eddie around 2010. What was Michael singing? And if Eddie DID have real vocals from Michael, why record 12 songs with an impersonator?

If ANY believer will be willing to answer these questions for me, I welcome it.

I don't know how to divide a quotation in several parts, so I'll number your questions.



12 songs appeared seemingly out of thin air sometime in 2010. Why did NO ONE know about the recordings prior to that time?

1- Why didn’t we know about Abortion Papers before a few weeks ago? Why didn’t we know about Best of Joy before we saw its title appear on the “Michael” tracklisting? We didn’t know about them because they had not been talked about publicly.
Actually, Roger Friedman did know about them – the songs, at least. He’d heard some of them back when they were just material for James Porte.

Eddie Cascio, being a longtime friend of Michael, was looked at as a seemingly trustworthy source and sold the songs for $5 million, which was a dramatic step down from his original demand of $12 million -- $1 million per song. Why would someone ask for so much for one song?

2- Because that’s what he thought they were worth, and wanted money? Are we going to blame someone from legally making money from songs he owns?

According to Eddie, all other vocal takes were deleted from hard drives because they needed room. Why would anyone uncaringly delete Michael Jackson outtakes?

3- That story, if it really was told, was an obvious lie designed to get MJ’s nephew off their backs. The Cascios hate him, and he, them.

Work tapes featuring Michael's vocals are rumored to exist. Why, after TWO years, haven't they been released?

4- I don’t know. My guess is PR/financial reasons (they thought to keep the story alive would hurt sales more than anything), or legal reasons (they were told by lawyers not to say or do anything in case a class action lawsuit/Jacksons suit was launched).

Around the time of the Michael album, Michael's three children were asked to write down titles to every song that they knew/could remember Michael was working on. Why didn't a single Cascio title appear on the list? (I would believe if they forgot a majority of them and only wrote down a couple, but not a SINGLE song?)

5- I don’t know what they were asked precisely, or when, or what they answered. If anybody does, I’d like that info. Like I said, did they deny MJ recorded, or did they just couldn’t remember song titles? They were just children. The point is that the Estate still went ahead with the songs, so whatever the children said or not, it wasn’t conclusive.

A cappellas prove that Michael's trademark foot stomps, hand claps and finger snaps, not to mention the way certain words are pronounced and his trademark vocal hiccups, are not present. Why did Michael suddenly decide NOT to do this?

6- I haven’t heard all of the acappellas, so I don’t know about that. I seem to recall “Stay” having finger snaps. There’s certainly a lot of “aows” and other trademarks : do we know for a fact all of them were added later on? A lot of the MJ trademarks are missing starting from the Invincible era : there’s like two “aoows” on the whole Invincible CD, and almost no “hee-hee”. Besides, if those trademarks WERE there, would they convince doubters? Or would they say they were added by the impersonator to sound more MJ-ish. After all, Jason Malachi could have sung the songs with hiccups and foot stomps and hand claps if he wanted to fool people.

Eddie and a majority of "believers" say that Michael's age played a factor into his declining vocal performance. Yet, we have Hold My Hand and Wanna Be Startin' Somethin' 2008, both of which were recorded months afterwards. Why does Michael sound normal in those songs, but not in the Cascio songs? (Keep in mind that WBSS 2008 WAS recorded in the Cascio basement, so the belief of "amateur recording equipment" is not valid.)

7- MJ sounds like the usual MJ of old on KYHU. The voice is weirdly processed on BN and Monster, just like it is on HT, Shout or 2000 Watts. And MJ’s voice did deteriorate over time. I was listening to “One More Chance” just yesterday: electronic manipulation is all over those vocals. There’s a weird artifact on the word “mystery” at some point, and at the end of the bridge, another voice comes to lengthen the last syllable. Also, you’re comparing final takes (HMH, WBSS) with guide vocals.

Michael's children have seen him record on various occasions; Paris apparently was in the room when Michael recorded Hold My Hand. Yet, none of his children were permitted downstairs while Michael recorded the Cascio tracks? (Sneaking into a high-profile recording studio is one thing; this is someone's house. It's not necessarily difficult to just walk down a staircase and stand outside the door to listen.)

8- What’s your source on that?

Paris and Prince both said that they heard Michael singing downstairs while at the Cascio house, but not to any of the songs that came from Eddie around 2010. What was Michael singing? And if Eddie DID have real vocals from Michael, why record 12 songs with an impersonator?

9- Let’s not put too much trust into the reminiscences of 10-year-old children. I can’t believe anybody would seriously expect them to remember, 3 years after the fact, what songs they could faintly hear their father sing though the floor. As long as they remembered MJ did record with Eddie in the studio, that is all the evidence that can be expected of a couple of children.

 

[Jesta]

I feel like this would be an interesting thing to bring up. Who here has heard of Bela Lugosi? He was the first actor to portray Dracula on-screen (not counting the film "Nosferatu") and he is one of the most celebrated film icons of the 20th Century. However, the last film he is billed to appear in as a main role is in fact a fraud. You see, in the final years of his life, Lugosi had been working with infamous Z-grade film director Edward D. Wood Jr. Before Lugosi passed, he had starred in two of Wood's films: "Glen or Glenda?" and "Bride of the Monster". Before his passing, Lugosi and Wood recorded some test footage for a couple of ideas that Wood had, but the test footage became just that when Lugosi passed away. However, the ever resilient Wood had the idea of using as much footage he could to create Bela Lugosi's final film!... And then he realised he had about two minutes of footage of his idol. So what did he do? He got an impersonator to play him; one that looks NOTHING like Lugosi, even when they were trying to shroud up his face to make the two look more similar. They spliced the fraudulent footage with the aforementioned scraps of footage to keep Lugosi's character constant throughout the film. This film was "Plan 9 from Outer Space" and to this day remains one of the worst films of all time, and the King of Cult Films. The impersonator was never credited, but it's a well-known secret that an impersonator was used and we even know who he is thanks to the biopic on Ed Wood's life, released in 1994.

So this shit has happened before... Not in music, but it's happened before. Just something to think about. Michael revered Bela Lugosi and his films, especially Dracula.

 

[AlwaysThere]

I won't answer to ALL of these right now; I will respond to all of your answers in a bit.

MJ sounds like the usual MJ of old on KYHU. The voice is weirdly processed on BN and Monster, just like it is on HT, Shout or 2000 Watts. And MJ’s voice did deteriorate over time. I was listening to “One More Chance” just yesterday: electronic manipulation is all over those vocals. There’s a weird artifact on the word “mystery” at some point, and at the end of the bridge, another voice comes to lengthen the last syllable. Also, you’re comparing final takes (HMH, WBSS) with guide vocals.

The voice is processed on Hollywood Tonight and 2000 Watts, yes. But why is it that no one has questioned whether or not it's Michael on THOSE songs? We can tell Michael's voice no matter what someone does to it; there was a Melodyned sample of You Rock My World available on YouTube where the entire a cappella was reworked to fit a new instrumental, yet it's still undoubtably Michael.

Guide vocals mean nothing. If you mean guide vocals by Michael, there are various demos where Michael barely sings (Beautiful Girl, In the Back, etc.) but it's still undeniably him. If you mean guide vocals by someone else, such as James Porte, then the Cascios still lied. According to Eddie himself, as well as the album booklet, the LEAD vocals are ONLY "Michael Jackson"; other vocalists are only given credit through background vocals. If there is anyone else in lead vocals then the Cascios are about to be in legal hell.

What’s your source on that?

Paris' Twitter. I'll try to find it, but I don't know how long ago it was.

Let’s not put too much trust into the reminiscences of 10-year-old children. I can’t believe anybody would seriously expect them to remember, 3 years after the fact, what songs they could faintly hear their father sing though the floor. As long as they remembered MJ did record with Eddie in the studio, that is all the evidence that can be expected of a couple of children.

This comes back to my initial question; WHY weren't the children allowed to go downstairs? I wasn't told a specific list, but each child named around 25-30 song titles. (there were some that Paris wrote down that weren't included in Prince's list, and vice versa.) Yet again, not a SINGLE Cascio track was included on the list. And the time span doesn't even matter. I do know that song titles that were listed included Light the Way (recorded in 2005) and I'm Dreamin' (recorded in 2006/2007). If they can remember titles from five years prior, why is three years prior a problem?

And they never said that Michael recorded with Eddie. They said that they heard Michael singing. He could have just been singing for the sake of singing; it's not like Michael's never done that before.

 

[OnirMJ]

2- Because that’s what he thought they were worth, and wanted money? Are we going to blame someone from legally making money from songs he owns?

Brad Buxer submitted his work for free. That's what real friends do. When the song is released he will be credited and he will make money from album sales and royalties. That's how things work usually. What Eddie did is unbelievable, low and greedy. He sold the songs to Sony for enormous amount of money. He doesn't own that material (if it is co-written with Michael Jackson). He just posses the tracks but the Estate is co-owner of Michael's intelectual property.

He even had a lawyer and he wanted to sell the songs to other record companies if Sony didn't want to pay.

"But things could get sticky between the Jackson estate and Cascio. I am told that Cascio has engaged a top music entertainment lawyer in Los Angeles, Don Passman."

 

[OnirMJ]

7- MJ sounds like the usual MJ of old on KYHU.

Hahaha.. Maybe to you. It sounds nothing like Michael Jackson. Breaking News sound much more like Michael. KYHU has 99% similarities with Jason Malachi voice. That song was the turning point for me. The first time I heard it, when it leaked I was horrified and to this day I can not stand that awful voice.

 

[ivy]

I really really want to see the source for this money Eddie is supposedly paid. As far as I know it's nothing but a rumor. Similarly it is impossible to know who and what Sony paid to other people as well.

The same also goes for what Paris and Prince supposedly wrote. It's also a hearsay that's making it's way among the fans on the down low.

 

[Rudolf]

7- MJ sounds like the usual MJ of old on KYHU.

Hmm, I don't really hear the same as you. Sorry.

 

[kreen]

I feel like this would be an interesting thing to bring up. Who here has heard of Bela Lugosi? He was the first actor to portray Dracula on-screen (not counting the film "Nosferatu") and he is one of the most celebrated film icons of the 20th Century. However, the last film he is billed to appear in as a main role is in fact a fraud. You see, in the final years of his life, Lugosi had been working with infamous Z-grade film director Edward D. Wood Jr. Before Lugosi passed, he had starred in two of Wood's films: "Glen or Glenda?" and "Bride of the Monster". Before his passing, Lugosi and Wood recorded some test footage for a couple of ideas that Wood had, but the test footage became just that when Lugosi passed away. However, the ever resilient Wood had the idea of using as much footage he could to create Bela Lugosi's final film!... And then he realised he had about two minutes of footage of his idol. So what did he do? He got an impersonator to play him; one that looks NOTHING like Lugosi, even when they were trying to shroud up his face to make the two look more similar. They spliced the fraudulent footage with the aforementioned scraps of footage to keep Lugosi's character constant throughout the film. This film was "Plan 9 from Outer Space" and to this day remains one of the worst films of all time, and the King of Cult Films. The impersonator was never credited, but it's a well-known secret that an impersonator was used and we even know who he is thanks to the biopic on Ed Wood's life, released in 1994.

So this shit has happened before... Not in music, but it's happened before. Just something to think about. Michael revered Bela Lugosi and his films, especially Dracula.

I love Plan 9! Let’s just say that if the Cascios’ hoax had been as transparent and amateur as Ed Wood’s, we wouldn’t be having this conversation now!

 

[kreen]

I really really want to see the source for this money Eddie is supposedly paid. As far as I know it's nothing but a rumor. Similarly it is impossible to know who and what Sony paid to other people as well.

The same also goes for what Paris and Prince supposedly wrote. It's also a hearsay that's making it's way among the fans on the down low.

Yeah, I see a lot of doubters just using that supposed info regarding what the kids were asked, and what they said, and how much Cascio was paid, and I see no source or attribution. All I know is that if the Jacksons could in any way use the three kids’ testimony as proof the songs are fake, they would have already. People need to start attributing info to sources around here.

Friedman said of the Cascios « they weren’t even paid that much money » (he said that in one of his more recent posts about Bad 25). As to people saying here that they should have given the songs away for free, well are you in the habit of giving your work away for free? How about coming to my place and painting my fence for no money at all? Sony and the Estate were going to make money from those songs; why shouldn’t Eddie and James? Besides, even if they had given the songs for free, would that make them more authentic to you?

 

[OnirMJ]

I love Plan 9! Let’s just say that if the Cascios’ hoax had been as transparent and amateur as Ed Wood’s, we wouldn’t be having this conversation now!

Cascios’ hoax is nothing but amateur, it is very professional and thoughtfully conceived and executed. They took their time (June 2009 - March 2010) and planned the whole thing almost perfectly. Destroying the evidence, hiring Roger Friedman to make the fuss telling how vocals sound amazing... Only thing they had planned but didn't worked out is fooling the fans.

 

[kreen]

The voice is processed on Hollywood Tonight and 2000 Watts, yes. But why is it that no one has questioned whether or not it's Michael on THOSE songs?

Well, Hollywood Tonight WOULD have probably been called fake if it had come out under the Cascio name, but since it didn’t, and since a demo for it came out, there was no chance of us suspecting it.

Shout and 2000 Watts came out during MJ’s lifetime, so nobody could suspect those songs of being fake.

But I’ll say something now that will probably put me on even more people’s ignore list here, but here goes: when you think about it, if somebody were to claim that, say, “Shout” is a faked MJ vocal, they would have just as much reason to say that – and just as little proof – as people here when they claim the Cascio tracks are fake.

Now hear me out before you click that “ignore” button. The vocals on “Shout” sound as far away from MJ’s usual, classic voice as the worst of the worst Cascio vocals. The voice is lower on the chorus, barely distinguishable on the verses; it sounds sometimes sped up, sometimes slowed down. MJ himself, to my knowledge, never discussed “Shout”, and it was produced by Teddy Riley, whom we believe is part of the Cascio conspiracy. So it could very well be that MJ felt ill or disengaged, and they got somebody else to sing “Shout”, and put that out with MJ’s blessing, who couldn’t care less because it was a Sony product and he disliked them, or was angry for whatever reason, or thought it would be a hoot, or for whatever other reason. I could even say that the reason it was eventually deleted from the record – which is itself a mysterious change so late in the process -- is because they all got scared at the last minute that the hoax wouldn’t work. I could add that it was eventually put on the Cry single – the only time ever a new song was put on a single – because MJ changed his mind and really did want to stick it up to Sony by releasing a fake song under their name. I could say you can tell it’s an impostor because never before has MJ sung such a “remake” of a song on an official album (it’s not a cover like Come Together; it’s a “reworking” of the old Isley Brothers track).

But I wouldn’t defend that theory: it’s much easier to believe that it is MJ, but with a lot of added effects to his voice. But do the following experiment: play people KYHU, and then Shout, and tell them that only one of those two songs is really MJ. Watch most of them say KYHU is definitely MJ, why the other one sounds nothing like him.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

You are smart enough to know that I was writing Prince (10), Paris (9) and Blanket (5) 's ages in 2007.

Nope. You clearly wrote 10,9 or 5. And not 10, 9 or 5. Spot the difference and you'll see it for yourself. Thus you meant 10 years and 9 months.

OK, I want to conduct a social experiment (because I have no other fun while being this sick and bedridden):

Let me throw out a hypothetical situation: SONY and the Estate announce that - due to the trouble the tracks have caused - they are discontinuing production on the "Michael" album and the three Cascio tracks are being taken off of the online market. Now it's important to note that they aren't admitting fraud or that they were duped, but only that the tracks were more trouble than they were worth and that they apologize for the trouble they've caused.

How would people react if this happened, also knowing that no other tracks would appear on any future releases?

I would be ok with that. And also, if one day, they release the tracks, I'd be ok only if they release that 100% proof they claim they have. But of course the proof must be objectively 100% positive, and not some kind of 100% interpretation.

 

[OnirMJ]

Well, Hollywood Tonight WOULD have probably been called fake if it had come out under the Cascio name, but since it didn’t, and since a demo for it came out, there was no chance of us suspecting it.

No it would definitely not been called a fake even if it had been co-written by Eddie and recorded at his house. That song sounds like MJ, Cascio songs sound nothing like MJ. Just like WBSS 2008 was recorded with Eddie at his basement studio and it sounds amazing and pure MJ. And no one is questioning it although Cascios are credited on Thriller 25.

 

[AlwaysThere]

Well, Hollywood Tonight WOULD have probably been called fake if it had come out under the Cascio name, but since it didn’t, and since a demo for it came out, there was no chance of us suspecting it.

I definitely gotta give you that one. But I don't think it would have been branded as 100% fake, as the other Cascios have been. I think most fans would have been confused: why do the vocals sound phony on twelve tracks, but suddenly real on another one?

Now hear me out before you click that “ignore” button. The vocals on “Shout” sound as far away from MJ’s usual, classic voice as the worst of the worst Cascio vocals. The voice is lower on the chorus, barely distinguishable on the verses; it sounds sometimes sped up, sometimes slowed down. MJ himself, to my knowledge, never discussed “Shout”, and it was produced by Teddy Riley, whom we believe is part of the Cascio conspiracy. So it could very well be that MJ felt ill or disengaged, and they got somebody else to sing “Shout”, and put that out with MJ’s blessing, who couldn’t care less because it was a Sony product and he disliked them, or was angry for whatever reason, or thought it would be a hoot, or for whatever other reason.

I personally blame the entire song on Teddy Riley. The mixing is much too high; for the longest time, I could not understand a single word Michael said. But then again, most of the fans still don't know what he's muttering on the bridge of Tabloid Junkie. But the idea that Michael could have given Sony a song with fake vocals is preposterous. Shout came out on the Cry single in 2002 (I believe). Two years later, in the midst of his second child abuse accusations, The Ultimate Collection came out with dozens of demo recordings, all of them with undeniable vocals by Michael Jackson. At the same time, he was still extremely pissed off at Sony Music, even though he had been long dropped from the label. Why would he give them a fake song while still signed, and then a dozen real ones once he had been dropped? It doesn't come together sensibly.

I could even say that the reason it was eventually deleted from the record – which is itself a mysterious change so late in the process -- is because they all got scared at the last minute that the hoax wouldn’t work. I could add that it was eventually put on the Cry single – the only time ever a new song was put on a single – because MJ changed his mind and really did want to stick it up to Sony by releasing a fake song under their name. I could say you can tell it’s an impostor because never before has MJ sung such a “remake” of a song on an official album (it’s not a cover like Come Together; it’s a “reworking” of the old Isley Brothers track).

I know you probably already know this, but for people who don't, Shout was kicked off the record in favor of You Are My Life. Michael did not choose what songs were released from Invincible -- he wanted Unbreakable as the first single, and they released You Rock My World. He wanted Unbreakable as the SECOND single, they released Butterflies. And if Sony suddenly decided to pull Shout off the album because they thought "the hoax wouldn't work," why would they suddenly change their minds and decide to put it out on a single release? Because it would be "unrecognized" as a B-side? I don't think Sony would take that risk. Not to mention that I highly doubt that Michael would himself release a song with an imposter. Fans would be pissed at him.

But I wouldn’t defend that theory: it’s much easier to believe that it is MJ, but with a lot of added effects to his voice. But do the following experiment: play people KYHU, and then Shout, and tell them that only one of those two songs is really MJ. Watch most of them say KYHU is definitely MJ, why the other one sounds nothing like him.

I've actually played family members Keep Your Head Up, amongst the other Cascio tracks. I've played them for dozens of people, ranging from 12 years old to 66 years old. They all said, within twenty seconds of the vocals beginning, that they weren't Michael. For some of them, I played a Cascio track against a Michael Jackson track from that era (I once compared Monster with Shout, interestingly enough). The person I played that specific mix for (my 27-year-old older brother) said that Monster wasn't Michael in the slightest. However, he did say that he thought Shout WAS undoubtably Michael. A few people I've played Cascios for aren't even hardcore fans; they just listen to Michael's music whenever it comes on the radio, TV or YouTube, and they STILL said it wasn't him.

 

[OnirMJ]

Shout and 2000 Watts came out during MJ’s lifetime, so nobody could suspect those songs of being fake.

But I’ll say something now that will probably put me on even more people’s ignore list here, but here goes: when you think about it, if somebody were to claim that, say, “Shout” is a faked MJ vocal, they would have just as much reason to say that – and just as little proof – as people here when they claim the Cascio tracks are fake.

Now hear me out before you click that “ignore” button. The vocals on “Shout” sound as far away from MJ’s usual, classic voice as the worst of the worst Cascio vocals. The voice is lower on the chorus, barely distinguishable on the verses; it sounds sometimes sped up, sometimes slowed down. MJ himself, to my knowledge, never discussed “Shout”, and it was produced by Teddy Riley, whom we believe is part of the Cascio conspiracy. So it could very well be that MJ felt ill or disengaged, and they got somebody else to sing “Shout”, and put that out with MJ’s blessing, who couldn’t care less because it was a Sony product and he disliked them, or was angry for whatever reason, or thought it would be a hoot, or for whatever other reason. I could even say that the reason it was eventually deleted from the record – which is itself a mysterious change so late in the process -- is because they all got scared at the last minute that the hoax wouldn’t work. I could add that it was eventually put on the Cry single – the only time ever a new song was put on a single – because MJ changed his mind and really did want to stick it up to Sony by releasing a fake song under their name. I could say you can tell it’s an impostor because never before has MJ sung such a “remake” of a song on an official album (it’s not a cover like Come Together; it’s a “reworking” of the old Isley Brothers track).

But I wouldn’t defend that theory: it’s much easier to believe that it is MJ, but with a lot of added effects to his voice. But do the following experiment: play people KYHU, and then Shout, and tell them that only one of those two songs is really MJ. Watch most of them say KYHU is definitely MJ, why the other one sounds nothing like him.

Shout and 2000 Watts are Michael Jackson's vocals and everyone can recognize it. He can sing really high or really low or sing the whole song in falsetto (like Best Of Joy) or he can just talk like in the intro of The Way You Love Me.. It is not just singing that is extremly weird and very bad on Cascio songs, it is pronunciation, accent & colour of his voice. On Hollywood, Shout and 2000 Watts he sounds amazing and he can sing. On KYHU the singer is struggling, he can't sing.

KYHU (along with Stay) are the 2 most apparent songs that the vocalist is not MJ, and you are using that song to prove your point. It just shows how badly you know MJ's voice.

 

[kreen]

No it would definitively not been called a fake even if it had been co-written by Eddie and recorded at his house. That song sounds like MJ, Cascio songs sound nothing like MJ. Just like WBSS 2008 was recorded with Eddie at his basement studio and it sounds amazing and pure MJ. And no one is questioning it although Cascios are credited on Thriller 25.

Such certainty... Such absolute belief in the truth of your position... If you joined a religion, you'd be their pope!

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Shout and 2000 Watts are Michael Jackson's vocals and everyone can recognize it. He can sing really high or really low or sing the whole song in falsetto (like Best Of Joy) or he can just talk like in the intro of The Way You Love Me.. It is not just singing that is extremly weird and very bad on Cascio songs, it is pronunciation, accent & colour of his voice. On Hollywood, Shout and 2000 Watts he sounds amazing and he can sing. On KYHU the singer is struggling, he can't sing.

KYHU (along with Stay) are the 2 most apparent songs that the vocalist is not MJ, and you are using that song to prove your point. It just shows how badly you know MJ's voice.

I agree. Before I even knew which Cascio song was which, I immediately recognized MJ on HT, but not on BN and Monster.

 

[kreen]

I've actually played family members Keep Your Head Up, amongst the other Cascio tracks. I've played them for dozens of people, ranging from 12 years old to 66 years old. They all said, within twenty seconds of the vocals beginning, that they weren't Michael. For some of them, I played a Cascio track against a Michael Jackson track from that era (I once compared Monster with Shout, interestingly enough). The person I played that specific mix for (my 27-year-old older brother) said that Monster wasn't Michael in the slightest. However, he did say that he thought Shout WAS undoubtably Michael. A few people I've played Cascios for aren't even hardcore fans; they just listen to Michael's music whenever it comes on the radio, TV or YouTube, and they STILL said it wasn't him.

Well, maybe the way you presented them with the choice influenced them, because in the few cases where people I know heard all of those songs, the only songs to ever be criticized by them as being unrecognizable were 2000 Watts and Shout. People actually hated those two songs because of how un-MJ they were. I'll grant you they also hated KYHU, but because they felt it too maudlin and corny.

 

[kreen]

Shout and 2000 Watts are Michael Jackson's vocals and everyone can recognize it. He can sing really high or really low or sing the whole song in falsetto (like Best Of Joy) or he can just talk like in the intro of The Way You Love Me.. It is not just singing that is extremly weird and very bad on Cascio songs, it is pronunciation, accent & colour of his voice. On Hollywood, Shout and 2000 Watts he sounds amazing and he can sing. On KYHU the singer is struggling, he can't sing.

KYHU (along with Stay) are the 2 most apparent songs that the vocalist is not MJ, and you are using that song to prove your point. It just shows how badly you know MJ's voice.

May I ask you a question? How old are you? I'm not trying to be flippant or mock you, but you have the zeal of a young person who holds on emotionnally to their position.

 

[ivy]

No it would definitely not been called a fake even if it had been co-written by Eddie and recorded at his house.

Hollywood tonight has been called fake by some people / fans on multiple mediums such as youtube etc. Even Paris Jackson called it a fake.

 

[kreen]

I agree. Before I even knew which Cascio song was which, I immediately recognized MJ on HT, but not on BN and Monster.

I followed the whole "Michael" saga as closely as anybody here, and I don't remember that we ever got the chance to hear a song without knowing in advance whether it was a Cascio track or not. The names of these songs had leaked before hand, so any snippet we heard of any song, we knew in advance whether it was from the Cascio sessions or not.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Hollywood tonight has been called fake by some people / fans on multiple mediums such as youtube etc. Even Paris Jackson called it a fake.

Which proves that nobody made us believe that the Cascio songs are fake. We hear it for ourselves ,the voice on HT is different from the voice on the Cascio songs

 

[OnirMJ]

Such certainty... Such absolute belief in the truth of your position... If you joined a religion, you'd be their pope!

There is only one pope.

Yes, I'm 100% positive. When the songs started to leak, I knew by just listening to 20-30 sec snippets which songs are real and which songs are fake.

First Breaking News streamed.. from the first line "Everybody wanting a piece of Michael Jackson".. I said that is not MJ. But I kept listening over and over and tried convincing myself (just like you do it now) that I can hear MJ in that song.

Then Keep Your Head Up leaked. That was it. I knew that Cascio songs are fake. But what is very important is that I didn't know the names of all Cascio songs then (nobody did). Those weak vocals on that song, weird vibrato, pure Jason Malachi, parts of Earth Song pasted.. I was praying that that is not the real song that is going to be released. I thought it is some Jason Malachi outtake.

Then Monster snippet leaked. I was extremely pissed. I was laughing when I heard it and at first I thought that that snippet is not the real song. I thought it was just some fanmade piece. But that was the real song, unfortunately. "Mama say, mama got you in a zig zag".. what does that even mean?

Then bunch of songs (snippets) leaked - Carry On, All I Need, Hold My Hand, Much Too Soon, Do You Know Where Your Children Are. And by listening those snippets I could tell in a heartbeat which songs are MJ and which are not. We still didn't know all the names of Cascio tracks and we didn't know which songs are by the Cascios. There was a song titled Carry On (now we know that it is Stay). We knew that a song called Carry On exists and that it is co-written with Barry Gibb, but when I heard that snippet called Carry On I said it is not MJ (I didn't care if it is co-written with Cascios or Barry Gibb). From listening those snippets difference between real and fake songs was evident.

Then Hollywood Tonight was played at Ellen DeGeneres show (I didn't know who wrote the song, or who produced it, I knew nothing about history of that song and we still didn't know all the the names of Cascio songs so it could have been one of the Cascio tracks). But when I heard that beatboxing, those vocals.. I knew. It is an MJ song. No doubting, no confusion, no forcing myself to hear something that it is not there.

Album was released.

Other songs started to leak. We still didn't know the names of all 12 songs. Soldier Boy leaked. By reading the title I thought it is some fanmade stuff, after listening the song I said it is either Jason Malachi or another Cascio track. Slave To The Rhythm leaked - pure MJ - that song was unknown to everyone, we didn't know who produced it.. was it Darkchild, was it Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis? But one thing was sure and that was that it is not one of the Cascio tracks. It turned out that it was produced by Tricky. Then Burn Tonight.. that one was funny, Mamacita Part II.

All 12 songs leaked (snippets) in their demo version before processing and autotuning!!! They all sounded the same and nothing like MJ.

 

[kreen]

All 12 songs leaked (snippets) in their demo version before processing and autotuning!!! They all sounded the same and nothing like MJ.

They sound like MJ to me.

Jason Malachi would be a poor impersonator if he didn't sound like MJ. So if you think it is Malachi, you have to admit the songs sound a lot like MJ, since Malachi is an MJ impersonator, and you and I only know his name because he sounds like MJ. In fact, the only reason anybody would hire him to sing the songs is if he could sound a lot like MJ, unlike, say, Bob Dylan or Leonard Cohen.

I've made that quick demonstration 1000 times, but I never tire of it!

 

[OnirMJ]

May I ask you a question? How old are you? I'm not trying to be flippant or mock you, but you have the zeal of a young person who holds on emotionnally to their position.

Age is irrelevant here. I am very emotional person, especially when is Michael Jackson in question. But my opinion is not based on emotions (or on what someone else think, like Estate, Teddy Riley, Jacksons or 3T), it is strictly based on my own ears and my own brains.

 

[144000]

They sound like MJ to me.

Jason Malachi would be a poor impersonator if he didn't sound like MJ. So if you think it is Malachi, you have to admit the songs sound a lot like MJ, since Malachi is an MJ impersonator, and you and I only know his name because he sounds like MJ. In fact, the only reason anybody would hire him to sing the songs is if he could sound a lot like MJ, unlike, say, Bob Dylan or Leonard Cohen.

I've made that quick demonstration 1000 times, but I never tire of it!

doesn't sound like the essence of MJ to me. But i have to ask..do you enjoy that someone would not develop his own personality, but would try to sound like MJ and try to make money off of it, at MJ's expense?

 

[OnirMJ]

They sound like MJ to me.

Jason Malachi would be a poor impersonator if he didn't sound like MJ. So if you think it is Malachi, you have to admit the songs sound a lot like MJ, since Malachi is an MJ impersonator, and you and I only know his name because he sounds like MJ. In fact, the only reason anybody would hire him to sing the songs is if he could sound a lot like MJ, unlike, say, Bob Dylan or Leonard Cohen.

I've made that quick demonstration 1000 times, but I never tire of it!

He is an MJ impersonator just like the Taxi driver and thousands of others. And that's it. There is only one (1) Michael Jackson. Impersonators are not clones. Jason Malachi is an ok impersonator but the difference between him and MJ is enormous. He does not sound like MJ (maybe to you he does). He sounds exactly like an MJ impersonator, like someone who is TRYING to sound like MJ. Even if an impersonator has a similar (not exactly the same!) voice to MJ there are still other very important factors like accent, pronunciation, experience (40 years in the industry, 1 billion records sold, worked with the best of the best in the industry like Quincy, Stevie and Bruce), singing skills - MJ was one of the best singers in the history of the music, Jason Malachi is "tone deaf" like his manager said.

 

[AlwaysThere]

They sound like MJ to me.

Jason Malachi would be a poor impersonator if he didn't sound like MJ. So if you think it is Malachi, you have to admit the songs sound a lot like MJ, since Malachi is an MJ impersonator, and you and I only know his name because he sounds like MJ. In fact, the only reason anybody would hire him to sing the songs is if he could sound a lot like MJ, unlike, say, Bob Dylan or Leonard Cohen.

I've made that quick demonstration 1000 times, but I never tire of it!

Yes, Jason Malachi IS a poor impersonator. No, the Cascio tracks do not sound anything like Michael Jackson -- minus the multiple ad-libs inserted from the Invincible multitracks.

Kreen, I do not mean to insult you when I say this, but I have no idea HOW in this world you could think the Cascios are Michael. The pronunciation is totally different, the vocals are weak, the songs are poorly written/constructed... it's all just embarrassing to the fan community.

 

[WildStyle]

They sound like MJ to me.

Jason Malachi would be a poor impersonator if he didn't sound like MJ. So if you think it is Malachi, you have to admit the songs sound a lot like MJ, since Malachi is an MJ impersonator, and you and I only know his name because he sounds like MJ. In fact, the only reason anybody would hire him to sing the songs is if he could sound a lot like MJ, unlike, say, Bob Dylan or Leonard Cohen.

I've made that quick demonstration 1000 times, but I never tire of it!

And it's been explained to you 1000 times why it's a deeply flawed theory, yet you never listen :rollin:

I know very well that there is a number of people who do think Malachi sounds like Michael. That was evident when all his songs came out on YouTube and many thought it was Michael. Most people however can easily discern between the 2 voices. Malachi doesn't sound like MJ. He sounds like a guy who can barely sing, trying to sound like MJ. Always has. If you can't hear the difference, that's on you to deal with. Don't put it on people who clearly can.