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Michael's changing voice circa 1973/1974/1975

filmandmusic

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I was wondering if there have been debates or discussions about Michael's voice during those years. When you listen the 1973 live album you can hear he struggles at times (Jermaine sounded better than Michael live during those concerts). It is still ok but it is a far cry from his near perfect live vocals from 1970 to 1972. Did this spark discussions in the band as to who should be the lead singer of the band? What was Motown's take or Joe's vision? What did Michael himself think?
If the live in Japan album is any indication it seems the setlists (just 12 songs compared to the live at the Forum disc of 1972's where they played 20 plus songs) were generally shorter, maybe to spare Michael?
 
I may be wrong but I usually consider that his voice changed in 1973 and was fully changed in 1974/1975 (example I like the live in Mexico) ...

Talking about Live At The Forum CD2, isn't there already a slight change in I Wanna Be Where You Are 1972-08-26 and 1972-09-30? (or maybe it's just different recording stuff that make it sound a bit different)
 
Well in the 1972 concert he already sings many songs differently so it was already changing in 72. I’m not an expert but I don’t think a voice changes overnight so I wouldn’t be surprised it took about 2 years for the voice to fully mature.
Maybe the title should have been 1972 to 1974 though.
You are right the Mexico show of 1975 sounds pretty natural already in terms of vocals
 
filmandmusic said:
I was wondering if there have been debates or discussions about Michael's voice during those years. When you listen the 1973 live album you can hear he struggles at times (Jermaine sounded better than Michael live during those concerts). It is still ok but it is a far cry from his near perfect live vocals from 1970 to 1972. Did this spark discussions in the band as to who should be the lead singer of the band? What was Motown's take or Joe's vision? What did Michael himself think?
If the live in Japan album is any indication it seems the setlists (just 12 songs compared to the live at the Forum disc of 1972's where they played 20 plus songs) were generally shorter, maybe to spare Michael?
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Are you serious? Lol

Apart from avoiding some high notes here and there and changing the keys of the songs I think Michael sounds flawless in Japan 1973. I can’t remember if it was in moonwalk or somewhere else where he said that he has to change his style somewhat as his voice changed.
 
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Themidwestcowboy said:
Are you serious? Lol

Apart from avoiding some high notes here and there and changing the keys of the songs I think Michael sounds flawless in Japan 1973. I can’t remember if it was in moonwalk or somewhere else where he said that he has to change his style somewhat as his voice changed.
Click to expand...

It could have been a discussion point. In the early 60s Jermaine was the lead singer.
You know how it goes, it is human nature, jealousy might come into play, some internal fights. I presume the press also talked about his changing voice back then. I don’t think it is an outrageous thought that at one point Jermaine wanted to take over lead singing for a while, after all he was also a big star back then who scored solo hits.

1973 is decent but it is no match for his live voice of 70-72 imo.
 
filmandmusic said:
It could have been a discussion point. In the early 60s Jermaine was the lead singer.
You know how it goes, it is human nature, jealousy might come into play, some internal fights. I presume the press also talked about his changing voice back then. I don’t think it is an outrageous thought that at one point Jermaine wanted to take over lead singing for a while, after all he was also a big star back then who scored solo hits.

1973 is decent but it is no match for his live voice of 70-72 imo.
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Do you really think they would change the lead singer and main star (who also happened to be the youngest one) who's voice had been the main voice of all their biggest hits up til that point? And all for what? Just because he couldn't hit some notes...

Comeon man that's silly and would be a stupid decision and doesn't even make sense because Jermaine didn't even have the same vocal range as Michael so all the songs that would Jermaine could sing Michael could sing with ease. Imagine Jermaine trying to sing got to be there or never can say goodbye..
 
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@Themidwestcowboy well yes otherwise I wouldn't bring it up, right 😀
There is more to my thinking, the hits dried up after 1972, when a business stops progressing it might be time for a change. Michael's solo albums after Ben were complete flops barely reaching the top 100. Motown released music and me in and 1973 judging from the vocals on that album that wasn't a new album back then but an album of leftovers, this was no doubt a decision made because Michael at that time couldn't hit the notes that made him a superstar. I can't shake the fact that there must have been internal discussion about the direction of the band.
Michael was a star but from my judgement the other brothers were huge stars as well, I base this on the cheers they get from the crowds at the Forum concerts. Don't underestimate that, during the J5 days it wasn't just Michael that was the selling point of the band.

But anyway we don't know what went on behind the scenes, maybe nothing at all.
 
Themidwestcowboy said:
Are you serious? Lol

Apart from avoiding some high notes here and there and changing the keys of the songs I think Michael sounds flawless in Japan 1973. I can’t remember if it was in moonwalk or somewhere else where he said that he has to change his style somewhat as his voice changed.
Click to expand...
I would like to read Moonwalker again - has the book been re-printed (re-released) after MJ's death?
 
filmandmusic said:
Motown released music and me in and 1973 judging from the vocals on that album that wasn't a new album back then but an album of leftovers, this was no doubt a decision made because Michael at that time couldn't hit the notes that made him a superstar.
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I wouldn’t come to that conclusion. I think Music and Me was recorded like a usual album but by the time it came out, his voice had already changed from when he recorded those songs.
 
Hudson112 said:
I wouldn’t come to that conclusion. I think Music and Me was recorded like a usual album but by the time it came out, his voice had already changed from when he recorded those songs.
Click to expand...

I just checked on Wikipedia, bot Skywriter, Music And Me and Get It Together were recorded from late 1972 to early 1973...

(On Get It Together, "Reflections" is the song where I feel like his voice is the most precisely between child and adult voice, and same for several songs of Skywriter.)
 
filmandmusic said:
@Themidwestcowboy well yes otherwise I wouldn't bring it up, right 😀
There is more to my thinking, the hits dried up after 1972, when a business stops progressing it might be time for a change. Michael's solo albums after Ben were complete flops barely reaching the top 100. Motown released music and me in and 1973 judging from the vocals on that album that wasn't a new album back then but an album of leftovers, this was no doubt a decision made because Michael at that time couldn't hit the notes that made him a superstar. I can't shake the fact that there must have been internal discussion about the direction of the band.
Michael was a star but from my judgement the other brothers were huge stars as well, I base this on the cheers they get from the crowds at the Forum concerts. Don't underestimate that, during the J5 days it wasn't just Michael that was the selling point of the band.

But anyway we don't know what went on behind the scenes, maybe nothing at all.
Click to expand...

filmandmusic said:
@Themidwestcowboy well yes otherwise I wouldn't bring it up, right 😀
There is more to my thinking, the hits dried up after 1972, when a business stops progressing it might be time for a change. Michael's solo albums after Ben were complete flops barely reaching the top 100. Motown released music and me in and 1973 judging from the vocals on that album that wasn't a new album back then but an album of leftovers, this was no doubt a decision made because Michael at that time couldn't hit the notes that made him a superstar. I can't shake the fact that there must have been internal discussion about the direction of the band.
Michael was a star but from my judgement the other brothers were huge stars as well, I base this on the cheers they get from the crowds at the Forum concerts. Don't underestimate that, during the J5 days it wasn't just Michael that was the selling point of the band.

But anyway we don't know what went on behind the scenes, maybe nothing at all.
Click to expand...

Music and Me came out in 1973 and reached peak position 24 in the US Tp R&B/ albums. The single with a child’s heart ached reached No. 14 on the Billboard R&B Singles. Promotion of the album was also very limited because MJ was touring with the Jackson 5. Many of the subsequent singles weren’t even released in the US.

Skywriter reached peak position 15 on the US Billboard tp soul albums and Get It Together reached peak position 4 with Dancing Machine being a top no 1 hit.

Jermaine’s ”Come into My Life” album reached peak position 30 on the Top R&B albums and his single ”you’re in good hands” reached peak position 79

So clearly the solution would not have been changing lead singer to Jermaine if they wanted to reach higher peak positions in the charts and sell more. You say that michaels albums after ben were complete flops (I wouldn't say that), then by your reasoning Jermaines albums must be considered as mega flops since they sold less and performed worse than Michael's solo albums and his albums with J5.
 
Freshening things up has never hurt anybody @Themidwestcowboy your chart numbers confirm that a change was needed, none of the albums and singles crossed over to the pop charts. The brothers actually acted up on it and broke away from Motown and immediately scored a couple of hits again. But by the time that happened Michael already proved again he was the only rightful lead singer.

I stand by what I say though, if I was the manager I’d at least go 50/50 on the lead vocals during 73/74. Jermaine did later on prove to be very talented as well as he had a pretty good career in the early 80s. If I was Jermaine and I had ambition I would have pushed for more vocals. Would the fans have gone in an uproar about it? I personally doubt it, judging by their record sales that period, there were not that many fans anyway.

Changing or dividing lead singing responsibilities was not the only option though, another good idea would have been having Stevie Wonder to produce an album or Marvin Gaye. Those guys were looking for more creative freedom, Motown could have given them this responsibility by producing stuff for the J5 for example. I’m sure this would have improved their mid 70s sales numbers.

I’m ruthless 😉

PS the success of dancing machine, I am love and get it together is exactly that refreshment they needed, a more funk based sound over the bubblegum soul they did earlier. I am sure you as well noticed that especially on GIT and IAL the brothers had big vocal segments as well and not just Michael. In my opinion they should have gone 100% into the funk direction but they didn’t and it held them back. The albums were still a mixed bag of funk and bubblegum pop.

I think I am done talking about this now, I gave my opinion, you gave yours and I’d like to agree to disagree now 😜
 
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