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MJ Estate Probate Notes

elusive moonwalker said:
This primary distrubution is distrubuting the kids money? right? because correct me if im wrong but she gets an allowance and nothing more regardless of whether the estTe is in probate or not?
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no it's not. according to trust 40% is put aside for KJ and 40% for kids. From that 40% Estate needs to cover KJ's living expenses and they could give her as much as they want if they see it proper and needed.

I believe last accounting showed over $20 Million in PPB Inc. So Estate have been putting money in trusts in my opinion.


Bubs said:
I'm not sure, but Ivy can correct me if I'm wrong. I think KJ didn't ask preliminary distribution, she tries to get the court to pay her legal bills under "family allowance" or "atty fees in guardianship proceedings". Just like they pay her housekeep, driver secretary etc. If it was, her atty would have advised her to fill in the form for prelim distribution.

Court doesn't agree that this 300 thousand falls under the atty fees or family alowance and are suggesting it might be preliminary distribution of her 40% as beneficiary of MJ's will

If it is decided and KJ apply for preliminary distribution, they need to decide whether it comes from KJ's share, or is it going to be divided between KJ and PPB.

Ivy can clear this out:D The more I read stuff, the more confused I get:D
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You are correct on what I quoted. even if it's family allowance or preliminary distribution it still comes out of Estate. The only difference is the effect on money balances. For example if this is determines as family allowance or legal fees and Estate is ordered to pay it, they pay it from their budget. IF this is determined as preliminary distribution estate pays it from KJ's trust and it reduces the amount in KJ's trust for future.

Bubs said:
Ivy, I have a question.
I was wondering that we know KJ cannot will her share to anyone and she gets her allowance during her lifetime, but if she uses the allowance money to buy property, jewels or other valuable stuff, she then can will these to her other cubs?
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Yes she can.
 
Right ok i think i get it. so its not a 40% lump sum as kj only ever gets an allowance. but if the primary distrubution comes from her 40% then her monthly allowance amount should logically go down because some of that 40% had been used to pay legal fees
 
LastTear said:
^^^^^ I believe she can will any monies in her name and any property to whom ever she likes. So if she banks any small change (sarcasm) left from her allowance that is hers to keep and can leave it in a will. As far as I know it doesn't have to be handed back over to the estate.

*********

Talk about milking it for everything it's worth.
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I was thinking that mortgage payment in her recent request.
Havenhurst is owned by the estate, so she cannot will it to anyone, but house in Gary and LV? The estate paid all sort of costs related to them including mortgage, so she can will those to her useless cubs.
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Ivy, you mentioned that last accounting showed that they have put money in kids trust, was there something about KJ's trust? I wouldn't be surprised that KJ have no money in her trust the way she spends it.


elusive moonwalker said:
Right ok i think i get it. so its not a 40% lump sum as kj only ever gets an allowance. but if the primary distrubution comes from her 40% then her monthly allowance amount should logically go down because some of that 40% had been used to pay legal fees
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I don't think that is going to happen. If $1,386,548 is not enough for her as she requesting 23% increase, what do you think is going to happen to her? She would be in poor house if her allowance is reduced.
I would have thought her allowance would have go down since the loans she took, but no, it is just increase every year and she is getting older.
 
@Bubs
I was thinking that mortgage payment in her recent request.
Havenhurst is owned by the estate, so she cannot will it to anyone, but house in Gary and LV? The estate paid all sort of costs related to them including mortgage, so she can will those to her useless cubs.
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Ok I'm with you. I hope it's not that, if would seem very unfair if someone has all their expenses paid, plus more and can't be responsible for their own debts.

I would imagine that unless it was a loan from the estate that she could will them to anyone she chose.

Refresh my memory pls, If Katherine was bankrupt how could she own two properties? Perhaps they were/are heavily mortgaged.
 
Yeah sorry re read it. i guess mj or wasnt there reports maybe janet bought that in vegas. And i thought other family members owned gary
 
The Vegas house, is that where Joe lives? The mention of a mortgage is puzzling.
 
Lasttear, I think you can own stuff even after bankruptcy. If you couldn't, wouldn't her RV be first one to be taken away?


Isn't the Vegas house the one Janet bought to KJ? Why would the estate pay mortgage to it if Janet owns it?
That LV house brought to my mind the article TMZ had about KJ wanted to the estate pay the toilet paper in LV house:giggle:

I was thinking that if KJ has some houses in her name, and she keeps taking on mortgage on them, and then passes that mortgage money to her useless cubs, and then goes to the estate asking them to pay it.
Thats is just possible scenario.
 
The same scenario crossed my mind.....

I think you can certainly own one property if you are bankrupt but I wouldn't have thought multiple properties. I don't know how bankruptcy works in the US, I know here it's not an easy route ie you can't keep excessive assests and be absolved of your debts.

As as I said several posts up... Milking it for all it's worth.
 
LastTear said:
The same scenario crossed my mind.....

I think you can certainly own one property if you are bankrupt but I wouldn't have thought multiple properties. I don't know how bankruptcy works in the US, I know here it's not an easy route ie you can't keep excessive assests and be absolved of your debts.

As as I said several posts up... Milking it for all it's worth.
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I'm sure she have many made up bills presented to the estate.

I remember only one time when kids GAL has objected payments, and that was the time when KJ tried to get the estate make a payment to her and her atty for something they made up.

This bit is interesting and I keep wondering which part of KJ's request for increase caused GAL's concern?

"Dec addresses areas of Mrs. Jackson's proposed increase in which the GAL expressed concern"

This bit is KJ's part of Ribeira's declaration:
Categories of Mrs. Jackson's allowance: salaries and payroll benefits (salary, driver; handyman & full-time housekeeper; parttime housekeeper; payroll taxes; worker's comp ins); med benefits (ins); contract workers; basis needs (food, clothing, personal grooming, personal supplies; health ins; doctors, dentist, vision); entertainment, travel & other (gas, maint of vehicle & RV, parking, storage facility); taxes & professional svc (inc tax; CPA, bookkeeper, atty); household maint (maint & taxes for Indiana, Las Vegas & Calabasas); add'l items not previously reflected (family gatherings, parties, personal prop ins, vehicle reg & ins).

GAL or court has never questioned anything regarding salaries, personal stuff etc, but this time the new thingy is the last bit about family gathering etc. I wonder how much she is asking for family gatherings?

Somehow I'm thinking that GAL's concerns are relating to maintenance and taxes of LV (personal prop ins?) or that family gathering thingy.
 
Am I wrong on this, charities haven´t got something yet?
 
and the way money is handled out to certain people, soon there is nothing to give.

I noticed that kids have annual donations set up from their allowance:
Categories of children's allowance include: salaries and payroll benefits (nannies; chef; bodyguards; payroll taxes; worker's comp ins; med ins); basis needs (food, clothing, personal grooming, personal supplies); med exp (health ins; doctors/dentists/vision); school tuition/activities (annual donations, uniforms, books, computers, supplies, field trip, extracurricular activities, acting, guitar, karate, stop motion, tutoring); entertainment, travel & other expenses (entertainment, travel, toys/ games/ holidays/ parties/ electronics; pet care; gas & maint of security vehicles; hobbies; upgrades to Prince's car/maint, furniture); taxes (income tax; professional svc, CPA, bookkeeper). Categories of Mrs. Jackson's allowance: salaries and payroll benefits (salary, driver; handyman & full-time housekeeper; parttime housekeeper; payroll taxes; worker's comp ins); med benefits (ins); contract workers; basis needs (food, clothing, personal grooming, personal supplies; health ins; doctors, dentist, vision); entertainment, travel & other (gas, maint of vehicle & RV, parking, storage facility); taxes & professional svc (inc tax; CPA, bookkeeper, atty); household maint (maint & taxes for Indiana, Las Vegas & Calabasas); add'l items not previously reflected (family gatherings, parties, personal prop ins, vehicle reg & ins).

I hope kids donations are going into proper and legit charity,not the one family is board members and controls the monies. Btw, KJ doesn't have that kind of set up as kids have.
 
Bubs said:
I'm sure she have many made up bills presented to the estate.

I remember only one time when kids GAL has objected payments, and that was the time when KJ tried to get the estate make a payment to her and her atty for something they made up.

This bit is interesting and I keep wondering which part of KJ's request for increase caused GAL's concern?

"Dec addresses areas of Mrs. Jackson's proposed increase in which the GAL expressed concern"

This bit is KJ's part of Ribeira's declaration:
Categories of Mrs. Jackson's allowance: salaries and payroll benefits (salary, driver; handyman & full-time housekeeper; parttime housekeeper; payroll taxes; worker's comp ins); med benefits (ins); contract workers; basis needs (food, clothing, personal grooming, personal supplies; health ins; doctors, dentist, vision); entertainment, travel & other (gas, maint of vehicle & RV, parking, storage facility); taxes & professional svc (inc tax; CPA, bookkeeper, atty); household maint (maint & taxes for Indiana, Las Vegas & Calabasas); add'l items not previously reflected (family gatherings, parties, personal prop ins, vehicle reg & ins).

GAL or court has never questioned anything regarding salaries, personal stuff etc, but this time the new thingy is the last bit about family gathering etc. I wonder how much she is asking for family gatherings?

Somehow I'm thinking that GAL's concerns are relating to maintenance and taxes of LV (personal prop ins?) or that family gathering thingy.
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I think GAL concern stems from the fact that the money is draining faster than it should to the detriment of the kids. last year KJ got a huge increase plus an exorbitant consulting fee. This year she's at it again asking for a massive increase even though all her bills are directly paid by the estate.

KJ is clearly on a mission to drain the estate as fast as she can before she dies. more so when you consider that as of next year in February on Prince's 18th birthday, she's going to lose control of a big chunk of cash. so she's already trying to take actions in anticipation of those future losses.
 
WEll we all knew this would happen. We talked about it before. I feel the GAL should have objected a long time ago. The only time I saw her object was when Katherine knew about the will and then got some lawyers to file papers for her as an executor of the estate, then asked the estate to pay for the lawyers. It was then that the GAL objected saying Katherine knew of the existence of the will before she hired her attorneys. Now she is objecting again which is good, but to me there were several instances when she should have objected before.

Katherine obviously is trying to inflate expenses so she can get more money out of the estate. We all know this money is for others.

Bubs like you my eyes popped when I saw the family party expense. So if Katherine and her children have a get together and Michael's kids attend it is billed as the kids party and the estate pays for it. I guess her lawyers sit and advise her of creative ways to get money from the estate. They keep making her do foolish acts like the appeal because they know the money will keep coming from the estate. This woman had at one point more than 7 lawyers. She has a full staff--secretary, lawyer, cook, temp cook, etc., and all this is for Michael's children. How come when the kids were with Michael they did not have all this staff. Michael just had the nanny, chef, bodyguards, tutor.

Every time the kids go on vacation a hoard of extended family go and the estate pays for that. Plus you have the other guardian attending and he takes his kids too. The whole extended family including the guardian have really won the jackpot here, and the jackpot is Michael's estate.

Then, we have an estate who will give her anything reasonable. They don't want people to say they make a lot of money and refuse to give her the money she wants. If she wants some money for the sons, they give her a loan. Then, they hire her for a bogus job, pay her, and take back some of the pay to pay her loan. Basically she is being paid twice here, but the estate executors are as creative in giving Katherine & Jackie money as Katherine is in finding ways to get money out of them.

When I read about her behavior it pisses me off to the point where I don't want to buy or support any more Michael projects. However, when I calm down I realize that I would be hurting Michael's legacy more than Katherine so I dismiss the thought. Yet, it pisses me off that millions of us support Michael and the projects and this greedy woman and her family find ways to drain the resources just to keep up a lifestyle that they don't want to work for to maintain.
 
^^ I bet when family members attend to J4 concerts, it is billed as "family gathering" and he estate pays travel costs etc for all members. Poor Blanket had spent his birthday in LV and watch his geriatric uncles performance, and no doubt all the costs family members stay and travel there was billed as family gathering, or taken from Blankets money. I'm more than sure that was last thing in his list as how he wanted to spend his birthday.

As what comes to supporting Michael projects, I feel exactly like you do. I decided that I support what the estate brings out as much as I can, but I will not touch on anything family members sells on the side.


Ps, I was thinking what Joe said about his 4 stroke's and was in hospital. Joe only earns peanuts so I was wondering how he was able to pay the hospital bills or did Janet pay for it? Maybe KJ was trying to put Joe's hospital bills under her medical expenses and that raised GALs attention?
 
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08/12/2014 at 08:30 am in department 51 at 111 North Hill Street, Los Angeles, CA 90012
ACCOUNT CURRENT(THIRD)

Whats this is about? Wasn't there already third accounting so the next one should be fourth, or isn't some sort of adjusting the 3rd one? Ivy?
 
Well said. u know sometimes i wish mj had just given her x amount of $ and thats it. then once it was gone in about six months that would be it.

Petrarose said:
WEll we all knew this would happen. We talked about it before. I feel the GAL should have objected a long time ago. The only time I saw her object was when Katherine knew about the will and then got some lawyers to file papers for her as an executor of the estate, then asked the estate to pay for the lawyers. It was then that the GAL objected saying Katherine knew of the existence of the will before she hired her attorneys. Now she is objecting again which is good, but to me there were several instances when she should have objected before.

Katherine obviously is trying to inflate expenses so she can get more money out of the estate. We all know this money is for others.

Bubs like you my eyes popped when I saw the family party expense. So if Katherine and her children have a get together and Michael's kids attend it is billed as the kids party and the estate pays for it. I guess her lawyers sit and advise her of creative ways to get money from the estate. They keep making her do foolish acts like the appeal because they know the money will keep coming from the estate. This woman had at one point more than 7 lawyers. She has a full staff--secretary, lawyer, cook, temp cook, etc., and all this is for Michael's children. How come when the kids were with Michael they did not have all this staff. Michael just had the nanny, chef, bodyguards, tutor.

Every time the kids go on vacation a hoard of extended family go and the estate pays for that. Plus you have the other guardian attending and he takes his kids too. The whole extended family including the guardian have really won the jackpot here, and the jackpot is Michael's estate.

Then, we have an estate who will give her anything reasonable. They don't want people to say they make a lot of money and refuse to give her the money she wants. If she wants some money for the sons, they give her a loan. Then, they hire her for a bogus job, pay her, and take back some of the pay to pay her loan. Basically she is being paid twice here, but the estate executors are as creative in giving Katherine & Jackie money as Katherine is in finding ways to get money out of them.

When I read about her behavior it pisses me off to the point where I don't want to buy or support any more Michael projects. However, when I calm down I realize that I would be hurting Michael's legacy more than Katherine so I dismiss the thought. Yet, it pisses me off that millions of us support Michael and the projects and this greedy woman and her family find ways to drain the resources just to keep up a lifestyle that they don't want to work for to maintain.
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I personally think if it ever came to the point where she was bleeding the estate then they will stop. But right now I believe what they are giving her they can afford to do so. However, I said it before and I will say it until it happens when she closes her eyes for the last time don't be surprised if certain people remembering things because the money will dry up for some
 
Petrarose said:
When I read about her behavior it pisses me off to the point where I don't want to buy or support any more Michael projects.
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This is exactly the reason why I have stopped buying MJ related stuff in the last two years. because all the money goes to KJ. the kids see squat.

Until the kids get full control of their money, I'm not prepared to waste my hard-earned money on MJ products, and thereby support a bunch of people who refuse to work for a living.
 
Bubs said:
08/12/2014 at 08:30 am in department 51 at 111 North Hill Street, Los Angeles, CA 90012
ACCOUNT CURRENT(THIRD)

Whats this is about? Wasn't there already third accounting so the next one should be fourth, or isn't some sort of adjusting the 3rd one? Ivy?
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it's for going over it and approving it.
 
Bubs Joe is a senior and lives on his own, so he is getting social security and should have medicare to pay for his hospitalization and medial needs. Someone is paying for him to travel all over the world though, unless he still gets money from being a one time manager to the J5 the way DeMann gets money?

I wonder how much of the money they spend for the Gary event and what is it creatively billed under? Maybe they call it family gathering. They have to pay for all of their travel costs, gas, food, special clothes to attend the events, etc., etc.
 
Petrarose said:
Bubs Joe is a senior and lives on his own, so he is getting social security and should have medicare to pay for his hospitalization and medial needs. Someone is paying for him to travel all over the world though, unless he still gets money from being a one time manager to the J5 the way DeMann gets money?

I wonder how much of the money they spend for the Gary event and what is it creatively billed under? Maybe they call it family gathering. They have to pay for all of their travel costs, gas, food, special clothes to attend the events, etc., etc.
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Seemingly Joe's travels are related to Jackson Family foundation (see my post on 2300 Jackson thread).
Joe and charity does not go hand in hand, and he thinks charity begins at home, so I believe the money they get for JFF, does not go to charity but some place else.

I noticed that PPB has annual donations in their list of expenses. I wonder if those annual donations are going to JFF, thus to be used on Joe's travels etc? I hope kids have chosen their own charity to make donations and not being told by KJ to make donations to "family".
 
passy001 said:
This is exactly the reason why I have stopped buying MJ related stuff in the last two years. because all the money goes to KJ. the kids see squat.

Until the kids get full control of their money, I'm not prepared to waste my hard-earned money on MJ products, and thereby support a bunch of people who refuse to work for a living.
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Saying the kids get 'squat' reminds me of latoya going on all these tv progs a few yrs back saying the family get absolutely no money from the estate - just nonsense, but i guess it helps in justifying your boycott. There are boycotters who are against the executors, boycotters who are against the family and boycotters who are against anythng released after mj's death, it's a miracle anything mj related gets sold at all.
 
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who would want to work to support Randy or his kids? I better donate to Gaza children than feed those losers.
 
Bonnie Blue said:
Saying the kids get 'squat' reminds me of latoya going on all these tv progs a few yrs back saying the family get absolutely no money from the estate - just nonsense, but i guess it helps in justifying your boycott. There are boycotters who are against the executors, boycotters who are against the family and boycotters who are against anythng released after mj's death, it's a miracle anything mj related gets sold at all.
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How much of $60,000 per month does Blanket actually get? same goes for Prince. and same goes for Paris. let's not pretend they are receiving their cash allowances. people are not that stupid!!!

That money is controlled by KJ who in turn funnels it to her offspring.

Remember: the estate already already pays all their expenses including tuition fees. so the cash that is handed out is basically money to waste around. Money they don't have control of.
 
passy001 said:
How much of $60,000 per month does Blanket actually get? same goes for Prince. and same goes for Paris. let's not pretend they are receiving their cash allowances. people are not that stupid!!!

That money is controlled by KJ who in turn funnels it to her offspring.

Remember: the estate already already pays all their expenses including tuition fees. so the cash that is handed out is basically money to waste around. Money they don't have control of.
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I don't need to remember anything. You said ppb aren't getting anything from mj's estate, don't change the argument.
 
Bonnie Blue said:
I don't need to remember anything. You said ppb aren't getting anything from mj's estate, don't change the argument.
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That's not what I said. and don't twist my words dude.

the estate hands over to KJ the kids money since she's their guardian. it's common sense. but do the kids actually see that money as intended? that was my argument.
 
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