MJ Estate Sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme Countersues / Tohme's Complaint [Merged]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

"In 2006 Mr. Jackson's former advisors refinanced Neverland Valley Ranch. The loan matured in oct. 2007. Contrary to published reports, Mr Jackson was never in default. Mr Jackson is in the final stages of refinance and will not lose Neverland."
-Michael Jackson rep
Raymone Baine made that statement in 2007. and yes that was true to a point. The Loan was due and MJ took out a a loan to refinance it so he wouldnt be in default. ( Fortress Investment,) That Loan came due in 2008 and at that time MJ needed help to pay it off or face foreclosure . It was well known and on legal papers Neverland was going to be forclosed on. That is when Colonial Captital (Tom Barrack ) paid off the loan later MJ made a lucrative deal with Tom Barrack. He sold part interest in the property and He was paid 35 Million plus he still retained an interest in the deed. Scycamore Vally Ranch Co, was formed and MJ was partner in that Co. with Barrack. The deed was transfered to that entity so MJ still had part ownership of Neverland plus was paid 35 Million on top of that. That is why Today the Estate still has part ownership of Neverland..


On May 12, 2008, a foreclosure auction for the ranch was canceled after an investment company, Colony Capital LLC, purchased the loan, which was in default. In a press release, Jackson stated, "I am pleased with recent developments involving Neverland Ranch and I am in discussions with Colony and Tom Barrack with regard to the Ranch and other matters that would allow me to focus on the future." On November 10, 2008, Jackson transferred the title to Sycamore Valley Ranch Company, LLC, and neighbors reported immediate activity on the property, including the amusement rides being trucked along the highway. Jackson still owned an unknown stake in the property, since Sycamore Valley Ranch was a joint venture between Jackson (represented by McMillan) and an affiliate of Colony Capital LLC (an investment company run by billionaire Tom Barrack). The Santa Barbara County Assessor's Office stated Jackson sold an unknown proportion of his property rights for $35 million

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverland_Ranch
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

A couple of points about the statement from Jackson's spokesperson:

- Jackson was aware of the situation and was taking his time to work out a deal that would be most suitable for his future and what he wanted to do with the property.

- Despite the media frenzy or whatever they say, he would "not lose Neverland"

- At the time Neverland was valued at $90-100 million. If his main concern was money he could have sold the property and had atleast $50-60 million after paying all liabilities. For example, he was able to get a company to pay $58 million just to own part of the property.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Posted 3/13/2008

"Jackson attorney L. Londell McMillan told The Associated Press on Thursday that the pop star has worked out a "confidential" agreement with Fortress Investment Group, LLC. The deal allows him to retain ownership of the famed property in Los Olivos, Calif.

"Neverland and MJ are fine," McMillan said.

An auction date had been set for March 19 because of $24.5 million the singer owed on the 2,500-acre spread northwest of Santa Barbara."

http://www.usatoday.com/life/people/2008-03-13-jackson-saves-neverland-ranch_N.htm

We definitely have two items here. The date that the auction was suppose to happen, March 19, 2008 and Michael had a lawyer at the time, L. Londell McMillan. So why the secrecy of Michael signing a Contract with Thome Thome because of the language of the Estate's lawsuit against Thome Thome and Michael not having a lawyer looking over the contract with Thome Thome and what exactly did Jermaine Jackson play in all this, his role, besides introducing Michael to Thome Thome?

...and so the controversy continues!
 
legacylegacy7;3605435 said:
I understand your confusion because people are taking this lawsuit and making it mean a lot of things that it does not actualy say. It has already been established in this thread that Michael did not owe or have to pay Colony. Infact THEY PAID HIM. Also nobody was in a position to put the King Of Pop to work and in no way did he lose Neverland.

what about if he wanted to buy back the 12.5%? He had to pay all the money back as well as all the improvement and maintenance costs and a 12% fee on top of that. Let me post a quote:

Richard Siklos, editor-in-chief of Fortune Magazine, wrote in October, 2009, that "under the terms of an agreement struck with Jackson after Colony Capital purchased the note on the property for $23.5 million, when Neverland is eventually sold, Colony will recoup its investment in the note plus the accrued interest, its management and upkeep expenses, and around 12% of above that as a success fee. THE REST WILL GO TO THE ESTATE." Essentially, this means that the Michael Jackson Estate will receive a large profit of the sale of Neverland, or the Estate could have the option to buy the property.

What was helpful is when AllieCat posted information about finders fees because that is what much of the lawsuit is about.

The lawsuit also states the terms of the Neverland deal was highly unfavorable for MJ. It can clearly be seen that Colony Capital only owning 12.5% of the property but have equal use rights of the 100% of the property as well as equal decision making power is not that favorable.

Bonnie Blue;3605649 said:
Does ivy or anyone who has read jermaine's book, know anything about the crystal city project that jermaine said he was working on with mj, that tohme was meant to be helping with the finance.

From Jermaine's book

“Crystal City” was devised so that me and Michael could create our own leisure kingdom, which, on paper, would have incorporated a Neverland theme park and a Jackson Academy of Performing Arts. We had four meetings in which we let our imaginations run riot. The plan was to build an entire city in the Middle East, on reclaimed land rising out of the ocean. It would have included a replica Rodeo Drive built on a Venetian-style canal with gondolas, Bel Air-type estates and neighborhoods, a shopping mall shaped like an octopus, a technology corridor, an 18-hole golf course, an amphitheater for concerts, a marina, and a monorail system connecting every facility. “And we could do what Disney does,” said Michael. “We could do a Crystal City parade and have the most spectacular light show at night . . . every night!” He wanted to place giant crystals on the top of each of the 14 hotels and then, in the light show, each crystal would refract a beam to the next, connecting the hotels with a web of light that would radiate across the city. But we didn’t have the money to fund the dream.
 
Richard Siklos, editor-in-chief of Fortune Magazine, wrote in October, 2009, that "under the terms of an agreement struck with Jackson after Colony Capital purchased the note on the property for $23.5 million, when Neverland is eventually sold, Colony will recoup its investment in the note plus the accrued interest, its management and upkeep expenses, and around 12% of above that as a success fee. THE REST WILL GO TO THE ESTATE." Essentially, this means that the Michael Jackson Estate will receive a large profit of the sale of Neverland, or the Estate could have the option to buy the property.
thae dream.

Yes indeed, on top of everything else Jackson maintained the right to buy back 100% if he wanted to. Of course he would have to of had a complete change of heart to do so. He had not been there in 3 years and showed no interest in even visiting the place. The deal he chose shows that Jackson wanted ownership but no longer wanted the burden of maintaing such a huge property that he didn't even care to visit.

"It's a house no longer a home"
Michael Jackson
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Yes indeed, on top of everything else Jackson maintained the right to buy back 100% if he wanted to. Of course he would have to of had a complete change of heart to do so. He had not been there in 3 years and showed no interest in even visiting the place. The deal he chose shows that Jackson wanted ownership but no longer wanted the burden of maintaing such a huge property that he didn't even care to visit.

"It's a house no longer a home"
Michael Jackson

That is besides the point. the fact is that the Nevy deal was extremely unfavorable to MJ. So it does not matter whether MJ did not want to handle maintenance costs or not.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Yes indeed, on top of everything else Jackson maintained the right to buy back 100% if he wanted to. Of course he would have to of had a complete change of heart to do so. He had not been there in 3 years and showed no interest in even visiting the place. The deal he chose shows that Jackson wanted ownership but no longer wanted the burden of maintaing such a huge property that he didn't even care to visit.

"It's a house no longer a home"
Michael Jackson

then why even bother with "saving" it? He could have just sold it , let it foreclosed. So why is Barrack and Tohme is being seen as saviors if Michael didn't even care to visit the property.

and also realize that he would have pay them everything they gave + interest+ maintenance costs + 12% on top of everything to buy it back or sell it. How is this a favorable deal for thim?
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Deep down MJ may have still loved Neverland. He didn't want to sell his creation. At the same time his actions, public statements and the deal he made shows that he was no longer interested in having 100% of the burden of that huge property while he moved on with his life and career.

Outside of the finders fee, there are no specific financial claims over the Neverland deal in the lawsuit.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Deep down MJ may have still loved Neverland. He didn't want to sell his creation. At the same time his actions, public statements and the deal he made shows that he was no longer interested in having 100% of the burden of that huge property while he moved on with his life and career.

Outside of the finders fee, there are no specific financial claims over the Neverland deal in the lawsuit.

You clearly don't understand the issue at hand.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

10% finders fee = specific lawsuit claim

Who are they suing again?
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

10% finders fee = specific lawsuit claim

Who are they suing again?

Did you read the lawsuit?


In addition to the unfair and excessive 10% finder's fee - There's more problems than the 10% finder fee

The terms of the transaction entered with Colony Capital were highly unfavorable to Jackson. - they are not only complaining about 10% Tohme got but they are also complaining about the deal with Colony Capital.

Specifically - they explain what they mean by unfavorable in detail

created restraints in connection with Jackson's use and control of the ranch - here they are clearly complaining about the undivided interest and how even though Colony had 12.5% share, they got the 100% use of the ranch and equal decision making / control over Neverland.

financial terms disproportionately favorable to Colony and inferior to Jackson - 12% on top of everything (including interest) is unfavorable to Michael

And again they can't sue Colony for bringing a crappy deal, they need to first pursue the people who convinced Michael to sign that deal - Tohme.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

If that is what the lawsuit said there would be no reason to add explanations/opinion
 
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Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

If that is what the the lawsuit said there would be no reason to add explanations/opinion

It is what the lawsuit says , there's no "if" about it. and the explanations is because you have been insisting that it's only about the 10% when it's not so I had to spell it out with the explanations.

The very first post has the complaint file - http://www.scribd.com/doc/81994850/Michael-Jackson-Tohme-R-Tohme-Suit - you can see it on page 5, item 13.

The very first post also has the summary of "Estate states that the Neverland deal done with Colony Capital was highly unfavorable for Michael. It limited his use and control of Neverland and had unfavorable financial terms."

So why have you been insisting it's just about 10% finder's fee of Tohme and ignore the other specific complaints?
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Anyone can read the lawsuit and see who they are suing and specifically why. Do not want to discuss his limited use when Michael Jackson left Neverland, told the whole world why and never showed any desire to go back there.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Anyone can read the lawsuit and see who they are suing and specifically why. m Do not want to discuss his limited use when Michael Jackson left Neverland, told the whole world why and never showed any desire to go back there.

Hi Legacylegacy7.

Correct me if I am wrong but you seem keen to prove that prior to his death Michael was not in debt and had no financial woes.

I just want to say even if Michael was in debt I do not respect him any less!
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Anyone can read the lawsuit and see who they are suing and specifically why. Do not want to discuss his limited use when Michael Jackson left Neverland, told the whole world why and never showed any desire to go back there.

Then why did you ask:
Who are they suing again?
It's not the first time you asked this question.

Ivy has broken down the specifics of the lawsuit including the parties involved and you still don't get it. and all these posts are just spams. they really don't add to the discussion.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Michael Jackson's biggest problem was rumors. Everything about his life was taken and twisted to constantly make him seem like he was less happy, healthy or wealthy than he actually was. The facts are all Michael ever needed. Much love Cande

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Michael-Jackson-was-NOT-an-addict/288817687803025

What has this got to do with the lawsuit? I honestly think you're just spamming the thread with irrelevant posts.
 
ivy;3606143 said:
From Jermaine's book

“Crystal City” was devised so that me and Michael could create our own leisure kingdom, which, on paper, would have incorporated a Neverland theme park and a Jackson Academy of Performing Arts. We had four meetings in which we let our imaginations run riot. The plan was to build an entire city in the Middle East, on reclaimed land rising out of the ocean. It would have included a replica Rodeo Drive built on a Venetian-style canal with gondolas, Bel Air-type estates and neighborhoods, a shopping mall shaped like an octopus, a technology corridor, an 18-hole golf course, an amphitheater for concerts, a marina, and a monorail system connecting every facility. “And we could do what Disney does,” said Michael. “We could do a Crystal City parade and have the most spectacular light show at night . . . every night!” He wanted to place giant crystals on the top of each of the 14 hotels and then, in the light show, each crystal would refract a beam to the next, connecting the hotels with a web of light that would radiate across the city. But we didn’t have the money to fund the dream.

Do you know this link?

http://www.blsart.com/dubai/city_of_unity_buildings.pdf
The City of Unity, renderings, designs, all architecture, and concepts are property of Brett-Livingstone Strong.
BLSart.com © 2005-2008
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Passy

You have been posting out of anger for 4 pages now. Each one of your post is a repeated attempt to attack me.

You even respond rudely to a post that was clearly my response to another forum member.

The lawsuit is directed toward one person not "parties", and you are the only one who can't even tell who they are suing.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

The lawsuit is directed toward one person not "parties",

not quite - it also has Does 1 through 10 meaning that as this goes along and as they find out more information they can add up to 10 people.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

10 people? Thanks
 
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Annita;3606627 said:
Do you know this link?

http://www.blsart.com/dubai/city_of_unity_buildings.pdf
The City of Unity, renderings, designs, all architecture, and concepts are property of Brett-Livingstone Strong.
BLSart.com © 2005-2008

Yes, I've been wondering if that was meant to be the 'Crystal City', too. It doesn't seem to match any of the descriptions on the passage from Jermaine's book, though. ie no canals, golf courses, marina...the 'Crystal city ' description in the book sounds more open and airy, while the BLS version looks like some 'Metropolis' nightmare.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Now according to the Los Angeles Times in May of 2009:

The singer's financial predicament reached a crisis point in March 2008 when he defaulted on a $24.5-million loan and Neverland went into foreclosure. Jackson's brother Jermaine enlisted the help of Dr. Tohme Tohme, an orthopedic surgeon-turned-businessman who had previously worked with Colony Capital.

In an interview last week, Tohme identified himself as the singer's "manager, spokesman, everything" and spoke about the benefits of dealing with business titans Barrack and Anschutz rather than their "sleazy" predecessors. "Michael Jackson is an institution. He needs to be run like an institution," Tohme said.

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/may/31/entertainment/et-michael-jackson31/3

So, I guess, Thome does not consider himself "sleazy." At the time of this article, Michael is being courted with respect!

Now, it's being brought out that because Michael felt backed into a corner financially, with Thomas Barrack now renegotiating that maybe it wasn't all that favorable. The Estate is now going to Court to make Michael's finances in a more favorable light.

My impression was that Tom Barrack set up a loan with Michael and that if he didn't go back to work and do the Show's, he'd lose "Neverland," and possibly everything else. That if Michael couldn't do the Show's for whatever reason, "Colony Capital" would gain control of Michael's asset's.
*********************************************************************************************
Assets, liabilities and owners' equity are the three components that make up a company's balance sheet. The balance sheet, which shows a business's financial condition at any point, is based on this equation:
Assets = Liabilities + Owners' Equity

Liabilities
Anything a company owes to people or businesses other than its owners is considered a liability. There are two types of liabilities:
Current liabilities. In general, if a liability must be paid within a year, it is considered current. This includes bills, money you owe to your vendors and suppliers, employee payroll and short-term loans.
Long-term liabilities. A long-term liability is any debt that extends beyond one year, such as a mortgage.
*********************************************************************************************
https://smallbusiness.dnb.com/accounting-reporting/assets/1257-1.html

-I'm really glad that the Estate is being diligent in making sure Michael's future is fair and equatable to all parties concerned!
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

According to one of Michael's long time haters the LA Times, "he defaulted and went into foreclosure". The LA times also once claimed that Randy Philllips was his boss. How disrepectful, in every story anybody who Michael shook hands or did business with was some how in charge of his entire life and in a position to take everything from him.

"The facts are all Michael ever needed."
 
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Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Alicat that information about the money Thome gave back was for an insurance is interesting. Now I want to know what other statements he made were lies.
 
HERA
housing and economic rights advocates

CALIFORNIA’S FORECLOSURE PROCESS AND TIMELINES- FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

How does the foreclosure process work in California?

The most commonly used process is called the “non-judicial process”. The loan servicer or lender:

i. Must contact you and/or whoever else is on the mortgage loan, by phone or in person, to assess your financial situation and explore your options to avoid foreclosure.
ii. Cannot start the foreclosure process until at least 30 days after making contact to do that assessment and explore options to avoid foreclosure.
iii. Must advise you during that first contact that you have the right to request another meeting about how to avoid foreclosure. That meeting must be scheduled to take place within 14 days.
iv. You may designate a HUD-certified housing counseling agency, attorney, or other
advisor to talk on your behalf with the servicer or lender about ways to avoid foreclosure. You get a chance to accept or reject any loan modification or other foreclosure avoidance plan that your representative and the lender/servicer come up with during that conversation.
v. After taking these steps, if no foreclosure avoidance plan has been worked out, the foreclosing entity must record and serve the homeowner (and anyone else listed on the title) with a Notice of Default.
<b>vi. A minimum of three months after serving the Notice of Default, the foreclosing entity must serve the homeowner (and anyone else on title) with a Notice of Sale
vii. A minimum pf twenty days later, the property can be sold at a foreclosure sale. Before the foreclosure process begins, the lender or loan servicer will probably send you two or three letters (over the course of 2-3 months) demanding payment. Those letters are not notices of default.</b>
phone 510.271.8443 fax 510.868.4521
HERACA.ORG p.o. box 29435 oakland ca 94604
http://heraca.org/downloads/CA_Foreclosure_FAQs_11_08.pdf

***********************
Fortress Investments was the lender. Here's a history:

To secure the Bank of America loans in 2001, Jackson offered as collateral his 50 percent stake in a Sony partnership that holds copyrights to more than 200 Beatles songs. The loans were also backed by Jackson's own music library and a partial deed on his Neverland ranch in Santa Ynez, Calif.

Typically, when a debtor defaults or is about to default on a loan, terms are renegotiated. Another option is for the lender to sell the loan -- and the collateral that comes with it -- to another party. Bank of America chose to sell the loans to the hedge fund, New York-based Fortress Investment Group.

Hedge funds are largely unregulated investment vehicles that are designed for wealthy investors looking for big returns on riskier bets.

A small fraction of hedge funds invest in what are known as distressed securities, such as debts like Jackson's.
http://money.cnn.com/2005/05/05/news/newsmakers/jackson_loan/index.htm

Then in March of 2008, Michael Jackson's Neverland Ranch Loan Sold by Fortress Investment Group to Colony Capital.
*****************
Jermaine introduces Michael to Thome who introduces Colony Capital. Are you with me so far?
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

It's just impossible to conclude from the facts in 08 that mj wasn't in severe financial distress - this isn't rumour or us believing negative media stories - it's just a fact. Yes, the la times got it wrong in saying neverland went into foreclosure but as alicat has posted above there is a process of foreclosure and it had started. It was announced in feb 08 that the ranch would be up for auction. The auction was then cancelled but it later emerged that it in fact it had only been postponed (mj must have reached a stay of execution from fortress) and a new date of may was made for the auction. Those months must have been horribly pressurised for mj as he sought to avoid foreclosure. Foreclosure wouldn't have just been a pr disaster for mj with the media having a field day to demean him, but it's a financial disaster as selling the ranch would be out of mj's control and the sale would just be simply to cover the cost of fortress's loan, and would not be intended to get the best price.

It's during these months of feb-may, when mj is at his most vulnerable, that tohme somehow makes his way into the picture and as the estate lawsuit makes crystal clear, 'takes advantage of mj's financial distress.'
 
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Posted 3/13/2008

"Jackson attorney L. Londell McMillan told The Associated Press on Thursday that the pop star has worked out a "confidential" agreement with Fortress Investment Group, LLC. The deal allows him to retain ownership of the famed property in Los Olivos, Calif.

"Neverland and MJ are fine," McMillan said.

An auction date had been set for March 19 because of $24.5 million the singer owed on the 2,500-acre spread northwest of Santa Barbara."

http://www.usatoday.com/life/people/2008-03-13-jackson-saves-neverland-ranch_N.htm
Londell Mcmillan is a leading attorney for black entertainers. He worked with Prince and Jay Z and later became Michael Jackson's lead attorney. Weeks after Michael passed he was on the CBS morning show. When asked how much he thought Jackson's Estate was worth he said, "In my estimation, a couple of billion dollars. When you hear $500 million don't buy it".

Note: Londell was refering to a figure given by the Estate execs. In July 09' they filed papers with the court saying that Jackson's estate was "solvent and worth more than $500 million". According to many with knowledge of Jackson's assets this was considerd to be a low ball figure. In fairness the executors hinted at this by saying "more than $500 million".

"The facts are all Michael ever needed"
 
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