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Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

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of course the autopsy would describe something like that. The coroner can't hide such info for any purpose whatsoever.
 
After what has happened today in regards to Paris' hospitalization, I just wish Katherine's attorney would walk in court tomorrow and say "we believe that AEG is in part responsible for Michael's death, but we are dropping our case. The cost is just too high."

JUST STOP IT!!

I'm so sorry Michael.
 
sfosteredi said:
After what has happened today in regards to Paris' hospitalization, I just wish Katherine's attorney would walk in court tomorrow and say "we believe that AEG is in part responsible for Michael's death, but we are dropping our case. The cost is just too high."

JUST STOP IT!!

I'm so sorry Michael.
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If they truly have the best interests of those 3 children at heart this is exactly what they should do. No amount of money is worth what happened this morning. Paris should be their #1 priority. She always was Michaels...
 
they did go there , gave a statement to the press in which they blamed AEG for putting pressure on Paris . They did what we expected of them , exploit the situation. they are unfit to raise those kids and only see them as money makers, nothing more nothing less
 
MJ*PP said:
^ even for crazy reason like that one im starting to pray they win so these aeg ppl learn a lesson not to communicate like that even if it were emails nd this gets over and done with. What traumatizing year this is
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They communicate the way everybody would communicate in this situation.
 
in a second email to leiweke, phillips wrote: “i screamed at him so loud the walls are shaking. Tohme and i have dressed him and they are finishing his hair and then we are rushing to the o2. This is the scariest thing i have ever see. He is an emotionally paralyzed mess riddled with self loathing and doubt now that it is show time. He is scared to death. Right now i just want to get through his press conference.”
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If they cared for michael at all they would ve canceled that press conference and got michael somewhere where he could ve relaxed .
 
actually talked to multiple fans that was there. They said Michael complained about how close the shows were (which was changed later I believe) and also said to them he didn't want to do 50 shows in the same place. so there's a disagreement here. Some will say Michael did not want to do 50 shows, some will say he did not want to do 50 shows in UK.

It's no secret now that there was multiple offers from other countries. I have seen an email from Japan asking for 3 shows. AEG also said that they wanted Michael to do more shows and possibly turn this into a world tour. But perhaps Michael wanted to do 50 shows total all around the world - not in UK and that's what he complained about.

I don't see why Jacksons focus on the number of shows, the more shows the more damages.
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This is why it all so fruastrating so much hearsay it all too confusing
 
LastTear said:
What I am disgusted by is that these emails have seen the light of day. And what for? negligent hiring of a doctor.
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Yes, I agree.This is exactly what I meant when I said this case is a disorganized mess and does not focus the testimony, evidence on the 'triable issue of negligent hiring.' Instead we are either talking about fluff, like how Karen Faye made up MJ, or demeaning comments made by AEG, or what x, y, and z thought about MJ's weight, energy, capacity--but none has anything at all to do with the reason for this trial--massive fail by so many.

BTW, since Murray's statements to the police are considered hearsay--how come Paris was/is supposedly going to testify about what MJ told her????? Isn't that hearsay too. This trial is such a frickin mess.
 
jamba said:
Yes, I agree.This is exactly what I meant when I said this case is a disorganized mess and does not focus the testimony, evidence on the 'triable issue of negligent hiring.' Instead we are either talking about fluff, like how Karen Faye made up MJ, or demeaning comments made by AEG, or what x, y, and z thought about MJ's weight, energy, capacity--but none has anything at all to do with the reason for this trial--massive fail by so many.

BTW, since Murray's statements to the police are considered hearsay--how come Paris was/is supposedly going to testify about what MJ told her????? Isn't that hearsay too. This trial is such a frickin mess.
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Exactly. When Panish asks Treel, Gonga, & Phillips what XYZ said isn't that hearsay, and when he asks what XYZ meant shouldn't AEG object because these conclusions are left up to the jury? I am hearing so many things that would cause objections from the opposition that I gave up on this as an organized trial. This is what happens when you do not have a case, and wait for the other side to submit all their documents so that you can use it for your arguments. Basically nasty e-mails are the evidence to show who hired Muarry. Now Panish said he would spend the most time on Treel, Ganga, & Phillips. He is now with the last one, Phillips, so this should be the meat of his case here. Now, if he has not proven his case by the end of Phillips, then he may as well send a bill to Katherine and go home.
 
When Panish issued his statement on Paris and basically used her suicide attempt to blame AEG, I fully saw what a total schmuck he is.

re your comment: Basically nasty e-mails are the evidence to show who hired Muarry. that is so right on. The argument seems to be:

1. AEG is nasty in the emails
2. Being nasty is not nice (not what your mother told you)
3. People who are not nice can cause death and injury to others
4. Therefore, AEG needs to give plaintiffs a few billion (or more)
 
Tonight on HLN/CNN, every single lawyer said that Katherine should drop this lawsuit because it is only about money. They said that these children's health and well-being is more important.
 
Soundmind said:
they did go there , gave a statement to the press in which they blamed AEG for putting pressure on Paris . They did what we expected of them , exploit the situation. they are unfit to raise those kids and only see them as money makers, nothing more nothing less
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No surprise. I expect they will scapegoat AEG and Debbie Rowe, but no one will buy it. It's the guardian's responsibility to protect a child and they alone are to blame for what happened to Paris, who is still a minor child.
 
jamba said:
When Panish issued his statement on Paris and basically used her suicide attempt to blame AEG, I fully saw what a total schmuck he is.

re your comment: Basically nasty e-mails are the evidence to show who hired Muarry. that is so right on. The argument seems to be:

1. AEG is nasty in the emails
2. Being nasty is not nice (not what your mother told you)
3. People who are not nice can cause death and injury to others
4. Therefore, AEG needs to give plaintiffs a few billion (or more)
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Ha oh my goodness. I burst out in laughter when I read this, and it is late in the night and I have to be quiet. Stop trying to get me into trouble.


^^All I remember about Michael's nose, was that Klien said at the time that Michael needed work done on his face and that he needed work done on the cartilage of his nose. Klien did not say he had no nose or no tip. If Michael did work on his nose there would be some tape or something, so is that what Randy meant?
 
Exactly, so Michael was quite within his rights to refuse the extra shows, even after they were announced with no threat of being sued.
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Agreed Last Tear, however, Michael did not refuse. I do not believe this meant he agreed. I believe this meant he would do what was required to prevent others from feeling disappointed. AEG committed Michael to those shows without any written approval which was necessary for those shows to be legally valid.

I was just thinking about the COST of relocating and who picked up that tab. Was he in town because of Michael, or was he in town because he wanted to be with his girlfriend? In any event, he was in LA, and not in Texas/Las Vegas working with his regular patients. So I'm thinking that he gave up his practice(s) even before the contract was fully signed. I mean, why didn't he stay put while the negoitations were going on.

I work at a law firm, we recruit attorneys from all over the country. If they have to relocate, the firm picks up that cost and provides any other services that may be necessary, BUT none of that happens until their contract is fully executed.

It will be interesting to see who was financing Murray while he waited for his contract to be fully executed. We know it wasn't AEG. Maybe the "instrument" was back on the POLE, and she was Murray's financial backer. Time will tell, I guess.
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Big Apple2, great question! I would like to know as well.

Could AEG representatives be reading this board as they prepare their defense?
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CherubimII, Big Apple 2, Qbee, Ivy, the plaintiffs and the defendants’ lawyers as well as witnesses may review posts on forums such as this if they desired. Not so much for strategy but, to gauge public opinion on what has already occurred in the courtroom. There is a rumor however, that Robson’s lawyer will use a strategy found on a forum.

Bouee, the insurance was for non-appearance/cancellation. Lloyds was concerned cancellation probability would be high if the shows were back to back. Spacing the shows would decrease the chances of cancellation (and therefore, payout). You are correct about the 19 shows; no written approval and yes; I see these are separate arguments.

I don't see why Jacksons focus on the number of shows, the more shows the more damages.
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Ivy, the focus is not on the 50 shows; it is on the fact that those additional 19 shows needed written approval to be valid. AEG sold tickets for those shows which committed Michael to those shows without written approval. The same with the increase in preproduction costs. Will the jurors see it as the same with the doctor’s employment? We shall see.

I went through some testimony from CM's trial. Cherylin Lee last saw Michael on April 19/20th. Her prior visit was april 12, before that it was late March.
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One of Cm's patient said he received a letter in april from CM, saying he would leave his practice.

I don't see how it could be relevant (Murray start date) : No one is claming Michael did not want Murray, so ?
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let me copy something from judge's ruling on summary judgment

Judge makes a note that Michael retaining services of Murray before AEG hired him could be a factor in determining proportional damages and liability.

this is why the April dates are important.
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Bouee, I believe it is relevant. It showed Michael and the doctor had an existing doctor-patient relationship. It also shows there were some payment agreement in place or one was being discussed because Michael was not one of the doctor’s pro-bono patients. Who was paying the doctor at that time? Big Apple 2’s post about relocation costs points to this as well. Who would reimburse the doctor for expenses? Was there conversations about this leading to verbal agreements?

AEG was only necessary to pay the doctor with an advance if Michael could not continue to pay or found it preferable to pay the doctor that way. Instead, AEG allegedly hired the doctor as an independent contractor making themselves a third party in the doctor-patient relationship which allegedly allowed them some form of control over Michael's doctor.

I agree with Ivy’s posting of the judge’s ruling in that if the jury finds Michael blameworthy in his death, for example, by 50%, they could see AEG responsible for the other 50% or other lower percentage which may affect the possible damages awarded.

elapentela;3837607 said:
They communicate the way everybody would communicate in this situation.
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I disagree.

The nose comment of Phillips does not point to Michael's nose being detachable from my view. It is just a dramatic and belittling statement on his part. He spent his time on the stand today with as much confusion, memory lapse, denial, and deflection as his partner Gongaware.

He testified he saw Dileo as Michael's manager and Dileo received $50K. Trell said Dileo received $50K because of the TII movie. If Dileo was Michael's manager, why was Tohme signing documents for Michael after his passing? He wrote an email to Tohme in June. I thought Michael fired Tohme in April?
 
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LastTear said:
Seems like it, so the tabloids and Tarraborelli (sp) was right. I'm sure Michael really wanted his family to confirm it publicly.

ETA I have to add that I still can't see it being possible.
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RP's comment about the nose is just an example of his very special sense of humor. If there was anything wrong with his nose, it would be in the coroner's report.


Dr. Murray got in to and admonished Kenny Ortega and told him not to be an amateur doctor, Phillips said he told the police.
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what does "got in to' mean here ?
 
Tygger said:
The nose comment of Phillips does not point to Michael's nose being detachable from my view. It is just a dramatic and belittling statement on his part. He spent his time on the stand today with as much confusion, memory lapse, denial, and deflection as his partner Gongaware.
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At least PG was not arrogant on the stand.
 
Re Murray start date, we have this also :

Trell said Gongaware was authorized to negotiate with Dr. Murray, but he was still subject to an AEG contract.(ABC7) Another email said executive Paul Gongaware informed others that Murray would be "full time" on the tour by mid-May.(AP)
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@tygger
Agreed Last Tear, however, Michael did not refuse. I do not believe this meant he agreed. I believe this meant he would do what was required to prevent others from feeling disappointed. AEG committed Michael to those shows without any written approval which was necessary for those shows to be legally valid.
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Maybe, but we don't know that he didn't agree. I feel that if he felt strongly enough about not doing these shows he could have refused and without any comeback on him (legally). Michael must have approved the dates before the ticket sales were released, (I really wish we could find out the date of that March meeting, then we would know for sure). I mean how can anyone book an artist without first checking the artist was actually free.

@bouee Got in to means to have a go at, laid into.

Re this nose comment, for Michael's sake I don't want to harp on about it, there would be no reason for the coroner to mention it.

I just feel that whatever the truth about it is that this trial is totally humiliating for Michael, this is not justice. If the original charges were still in place then I may feel its worth it, if there was actually a case. But just for proving AEG negligently hired a doctor by not realising he had debts and to prove they are a'holes, not worth it at all. in fact I am disgusted that after those other portion of the suit were removed that the Jacksons continued with this.
 
LastTear said:
...Re this nose comment, for Michael's sake I don't want to harp on about it, there would be no reason for the coroner to mention it...
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It's obvious that the comment about Mj's nose is just a bad, unoriginal joke playing on the fact that MJ had lots of plastic surgery. People have been making bad jokes like that for a long time, and this is no different to any other nose joke over the last 25 years. MJ is dead and we have a coroner's report which would have stated if there was a 'detachable nose', so we have a proof that Randy's statement is not true. This email just shows a lack of respect for the artist. It shows how two faced those guys at AEG were, and the use of these emails is intended to build a picture for the jury of a company that is not interested in looking after MJ and is using him to get what they want - money at all costs, leading to MJ's death at the hands of a doctor that was not treating his patient in the manner that he should have been. The Jackson lawyer has (IMO) done a good job of showing AEG's lack of interest in MJ's well being, but he hasn't proven that AEG are responsible in any way for MJ's death. After all, it was the doctor's own negligence that directly caused MJ's death - that has already been proven in a court of law - and there is very little evidence to indicate that AEG had employed him or had any responsibility for his actions. There is no signed contract. The only evidence I have read about is the email where Gongaware says AEG are paying his salary, but I don't believe that is enough.
 
bobmoo79 said:
It's obvious that the comment about Mj's nose is just a bad, unoriginal joke playing on the fact that MJ had lots of plastic surgery. People have been making bad jokes like that for a long time, and this is no different to any other nose joke over the last 25 years. MJ is dead and we have a coroner's report which would have stated if there was a 'detachable nose', so we have a proof that Randy's statement is not true. This email just shows a lack of respect for the artist. It shows how two faced those guys at AEG were, and the use of these emails is intended to build a picture for the jury of a company that is not interested in looking after MJ and is using him to get what they want - money at all costs, leading to MJ's death at the hands of a doctor that was not treating his patient in the manner that he should have been. The Jackson lawyer has (IMO) done a good job of showing AEG's lack of interest in MJ's well being, but he hasn't proven that AEG are responsible in any way for MJ's death. After all, it was the doctor's own negligence that directly caused MJ's death - that has already been proven in a court of law - and there is very little evidence to indicate that AEG had employed him or had any responsibility for his actions. There is no signed contract. The only evidence I have read about is the email where Gongaware says AEG are paying his salary, but I don't believe that is enough.
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I don't think it's obvious and I disagree about the coroner.

The email was obviously written on the go as the events were happening ie there was an email before and this started with 'i'm not there yet', although I am seriously not impressed with the words of the mail it comes across to me as being written during a period of frustration. Please don't think I am excusing it, I am not, however I am trying to step aside and look objectively and I do not know Phillips relationship with the receiver of the mail.

I'm sure many of us could be wholly embarrassed if some of our mails were made public.

As I said earlier if this trial was about AEG being total a*holes then yes they are guilty.
 
So now even fans believe in this nose falling apart thing? :(
 
hi
i've been quite busy so i haven't been following everything untill now. just saw the nose refrence and i doubt he's actually refering the MJs nose. i think it may be just reference to his state of mind and health. i may be wrong but that's the only explanation i can think of......
 
maral said:
hi
i've been quite busy so i haven't been following everything untill now. just saw the nose refrence and i doubt he's actually refering the MJs nose. i think it may be just reference to his state of mind and health. i may be wrong but that's the only explanation i can think of......
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I agree with you.
We have a saying here something like "dragging your a..e over here". Who knows if RP was thinking something similar, but I didn't think it was meant the way some fans seems to understand it.
 
On reflection, seeing Phillips answer the questions about him 'screaming so loud' I am beginning to think, maybe out of frustration, he exaggerated the days events on those emails, clearly it's Phillips turn to be a drama queen!

@Virre, no it doesn't mean that at all.
 
Bubs said:
I agree with you.
We have a saying here something like "dragging your a..e over here". Who knows if RP was thinking something similar, but I didn't think it was meant the way some fans seems to understand it.
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exactly, Michael Jackson or not frankly i don't believe anyones nose can actually fall off. that's just insane
 
When it came out that the first 4 Shows would be rescheduled, all hell broke out over it. Fans went off the deep end. Randy Phillips and Kenny Ortega did a Press Conference to clear the air and address the jitters of those who were no longer going to the first 4 Shows. I bring this up because I believe that the uproar over the rescheduling of the first 4 Shows is why Michael Jackson went to the Press about being surprised about doing more than ten Shows. I believe Michael Jackson was hoping to stir up emotions within the fans that maybe, perhaps, sympathy would help Michael Jackson at the beginning of June of 2009, because he truly was hurting then. It didn't work the publicity of having this published, because little attention was paid. I'm sure between Michael Jackson having skin cancer issues and the rescheduling of the Shows was now starting to work against Michael Jackson and why he paid no heed to Nurse Practioner, Cherilyn Lee, when she advised Michael Jackson to seek medical help about his symptoms of feeling hot and cold at the same time within his nervous system.

The Las Vegas deal makers were betting against Michael Jackson completing his 50 Shows scheduled from July to March. Could Michael Jackson have scaled back on Production and made a simpler Show? Having it in the 02 Arena in a smaller arena instead of a huge arena would give such an impression. But I do agree with Michael Durham Prince that the grueling Production was taking its toll. Michael Jackson was the Architect of these Shows and he was involved in every aspect of the Show.
 
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