Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

[loveforever]

The only fact I know is Michael Jackson was healthier than people his age, he was killed by Conrad Murray. he was capable of doing 260 shows if he wanted and his body got proper treated.

 

[AliCat]

Strong asked if Katherine Jackson's Hayvenhurst home was about to go in foreclosure. Erk said yes.
"The reason he was going on tour was to get himself straight, earn money to take care of his family," Erk said.

and KJ in her testimony said that she didn't know MJ was going back on stage? Maybe Erk meant Mj was going to take care of his own family (his children and buy a house for them)
--------------------------
"Erk said the estimate of cost of his firm's work in this case is $300,000. He didn't review thousands of pages, eliminated all unnecessary."

Ivy, do we get to see the estate accounting any time soon? I would really want to see how much (if charged from the estate) the estate spent on Katherine's lawyers and others .
---------------------------
Strong said Erk's opinion assumes that MJ would do something he had never done before.
Strong: The artist usually had the final decision?
Erk: Yes, they have final say but consult with the professionals that surround them.

:bugeyed
Plaintiifs tried to add claim that AEG controlled MJ, but it was thrown out. Now they have witness telling that people around MJ told him how many gigs he should do and MJ would have willingly done as told? They are really spinning this case to suit their agenda!
-------------------------------
Erk said he didn't calculate how many more shows would be required to fulfill a 48 month tour.
Using the simple 30% increase calculation, there would be an additional 78 shows, totaling 338 shows in 48 months.

Few more days on stand, this man would say MJ was doing 1000 shows :smilerolleyes:
---------------------
Michael did altogether 275 shows for BAD, Dangerous and HiStory.
I had to laugh at this:
Strong: Now you have him in one tour, 12 years later, at age of 50, doing 260 shows?
Erk: Yes

---------------------
Strong asked if Erk's projection is inconsistent with MJ's tour history. Erk said the show was called This Is It, his final extravaganza.
"I packed a lot of shows in to go out with a bang," Erk said.

The only extravaganza was Erks estimates, and he certainly went out with bang
I can believe MJ would have done some additional tours in other countries after UK, but what Erk says is way too much.
----------------------
Strong asked if MJ never agreed to do more than 50 shows. Erk said he doesn't know if he agrees with that.
Erk said he spoke with Prince on Saturday and he said MJ told him they were going to Asia.

I have an issue with this. Erk said MJ was going on tour after 02 gigs and he relied on RP testimony of possibility MJ going on longer tour with them, and calculated his possible earnings to go with it.

Then how it is possible that Prince testified this:
Q did you know anything about the business deal involving AEG and your father?
A no. But from what he told me, he wasn't happy with it.
Q as far as what the terms were, all that --
A no.
Q -- that wasn't something you were involved with?
A no.
Q now, even though you were young, did your father confide in you at all about his dealings with Randy Phillips, AEG live, and Dr. Tohme?
A yes.

There is more of his testimony relating on AEG and MJ being unhappy with them.
If MJ was unhappy with them, are they saying that MJ still would have extended his contract with AEG and done 260 dates with them around the world? They are very conflicting with this whole thingy! Junior says that AEG made him cry and didn't like them, then they have expert who talked to Junior and he says daddy was going on Asia with promoter that made him cry?
I find it odd that plaintiffs have been trying to show, via their witnesses how big bag AEG controlled and basically abused MJ and didn't look after him, but when it comes to calculate how much MJ would have earn with them, it is totally different language!

I'm very concern about if they are using Junior to suit their agenda.
-------------------
Strong asked if people had issue w/ MJ dangling a baby over the balcony of hotel. He said for a short time yes, but not to affect attendance

Low blow but expected. I agree with Erk that it wouldn't have effected on attendance. I think it was mostly forgotten but this trial brought up all those thing out again. Thank you's to Jackson's greedyness.
-----------------------
Both attorneys were shouting to each other, court clerk asked them to knock it off, called sheriffs.
:rofl:
----------------------------

Link to video report from ABC
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/video?id=9174505
There is a list of cities on cities Erk based his calculations of MJ's earnings from worldwide. He listed US cities, but MJ haven't or didn't tour in North Us since Bad, or did he?

Good summarization, Bubs!

I thought after Michael did the 50 Shows in London, he'd go to Las Vegas. I thought that was why Thome Thome still had the $5 million, so Michael could buy a house in Las Vegas and this would be where Michael would do a residency till he didn't want to anymore. That was part of the original arrangement between AEG Live and Michael was doing a residency, instead of touring around the world, because staying in one place was more appealing. Michael Jackson did publicly say he hated touring, so the residency was the way to go and Las Vegas could afford that for Michael. That was why there was talk about Michael doing films and not touring, he was getting too old for touring. Doing Shows at residencies would afford Michael the quickest way to pay off his debt, in the least amount of time and still attain his assets, which all had loans on them, which is how Michael was living and could no longer live, as the loans had maxed out!

 

[jamba]

Good summarization, Bubs!

I thought after Michael did the 50 Shows in London, he'd go to Las Vegas. I thought that was why Thome Thome still had the $5 million, so Michael could buy a house in Las Vegas and this would be where Michael would do a residency till he didn't want to anymore. That was part of the original arrangement between AEG Live and Michael was doing a residency, instead of touring around the world, because staying in one place was more appealing. Michael Jackson did publicly say he hated touring, so the residency was the way to go and Las Vegas could afford that for Michael. That was why there was talk about Michael doing films and not touring, he was getting too old for touring. Doing Shows at residencies would afford Michael the quickest way to pay off his debt, in the least amount of time and still attain his assets, which all had loans on them, which is how Michael was living and could no longer live, as the loans had maxed out!

One point, Jack Wishna, the guy in Vegas who talked MJ into returning to USA from Ireland and who later committed suicide, said he thought MJ was NOT in good enough shape to do a residency in Vegas. The idea they had was that MJ would do this residency and that's why MJ returned, but Wishna ultimately said he thought MJ was not ready--not physically up for it, so the plan never materialized.

 

[jamba]

Gerryevans, Jamba, I agree Michael did not want to tour much if at all. However, it was said he wanted to retire after the Bad tour and he went on to do Dangerous, History, and planned to complete TII. When Michael needed to work, he did like most responsible people. Tygger

Ok, how OLD was he when he did the last tour--HIStory?? He was 37!!!! Dancing the way he did was a huge physical workout. Doing those kinds of moves at age 50 that you did at age 37--you don't have the same body anymore. Plus MJ had the fall in 99 that hurt is back and caused backpain. I don't know how old you are, Tygger, but as Katherine Hepburn said, "Old age is not for sissies." The body starts to give you aches and pains even if you are not going on stage for a full workout concert in front of hoards of fans and critics judging your every move. Even in the MSQ 30th anniversary concerts, IMO he looked great but the dancing was not on the same level as before. It was amazing, but when you look at some clips from HIStory, people ask, "is he from another planet--how can he do that?" Older people have issues, dancers have physical issues, this MUST be factored in to any consideration of thr number of future live performances.

Bubs, MJ as Superman--so funny! Thanks. "Able to leap tall buildings at a single bound."

 

[AliCat]

One point, Jack Wishna, the guy in Vegas who talked MJ into returning to USA from Ireland and who later committed suicide, said he thought MJ was NOT in good enough shape to do a residency in Vegas. The idea they had was that MJ would do this residency and that's why MJ returned, but Wishna ultimately said he thought MJ was not ready--not physically up for it, so the plan never materialized.

But then we get into Michael Jackson in talks with Kenny Ortega and Randy Phillips around 2007. Randy Phillips saying Michael Jackson isn't ready to do the Shows.

Then in March, 2008, enter Thome Thome, Thomas Barrack and Colony Capital and saving "Neverland" from Public Auction and Thomas Barrack calls his billionaire friend, Phillip Anschutz and Michael goes back to work. These legitimate businessmen wanted to work with Michael and help him out. Both Thomas Barrack and Phillip Anschutz are so successful at what they do, how they earn money and even Phillip Anschutz hates debt, so Michael wanted to work with these guy's. Finally things would go Michael's way to finally achieve financial success and pave a way for his children to have a successful future, financially speaking!

 

[Bubs]

Gerryevans, Jamba, I agree Michael did not want to tour much if at all. However, it was said he wanted to retire after the Bad tour and he went on to do Dangerous, History, and planned to complete TII. When Michael needed to work, he did like most responsible people. Tygger

Ok, how OLD was he when he did the last tour--HIStory?? He was 37!!!! Dancing the way he did was a huge physical workout. Doing those kinds of moves at age 50 that you did at age 37--you don't have the same body anymore. Plus MJ had the fall in 99 that hurt is back and caused backpain. I don't know how old you are, Tygger, but as Katherine Hepburn said, "Old age is not for sissies." The body starts to give you aches and pains even if you are not going on stage for a full workout concert in front of hoards of fans and critics judging your every move. Even in the MSQ 30th anniversary concerts, IMO he looked great but the dancing was not on the same level as before. It was amazing, but when you look at some clips from HIStory, people ask, "is he from another planet--how can he do that?" Older people have issues, dancers have physical issues, this MUST be factored in to any consideration of thr number of future live performances.

I cannot remember which of the witness testified or was it even mentioned during the trial, but I thought somebody mentioned (Kenny) that Michael had some sort of hip problem, something popped out when he was dancing and it caused pain. I think you can see it on TII when Michael is holding his side.
Can somebody remeber anything about that hip problem?

 

[jamba]

But then we get into Michael Jackson in talks with Kenny Ortega and Randy Phillips around 2007. Randy Phillips saying Michael Jackson isn't ready to do the Shows.

Then in March, 2008, enter Thome Thome, Thomas Barrack and Colony Capital and saving "Neverland" from Public Auction and Thomas Barrack calls his billionaire friend, Phillip Anschutz and Michael goes back to work. These legitimate businessmen wanted to work with Michael and help him out. Both Thomas Barrack and Phillip Anschutz are so successful at what they do, how they earn money and even Phillip Anschutz hates debt, so Michael wanted to work with these guy's. Finally things would go Michael's way to finally achieve financial success and pave a way for his children to have a successful future, financially speaking!

Here is Wishna saying MJ got off the plane in great shape but became debilitated while staying in Vegas:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=j_RPwfkUzdA

Also here's an article where Wishna says MJ was too weakened for the Vegas shows (3 x per month):

http://www.eonline.com/news/133691/...-says-jackson-was-too-weak-for-major-comeback

 

[sfosteredi]

In 2003 at the age of 44 Michael said, "But it's a difficult thing to tour. You go from one continent to another, you're sleepy, the time zones are different, you can't sleep after the show - the adrenaline is up here."

He said on Michael Jackson's Home Private Movies at 4:24.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvjlBQ6bbhc

 

[Bubs]

^^ Everything what Michael said or did, seems to be irrelevent since he passed away.
His will was questioned, his children were thrown out to the tabloid hyenas, now what he thought about touring is irrelevant too.
----------------


Earlier today, the court sent email to all media members that interviews are to be conducted only in approved areas or outside the building.
Yesterday, after session concluded, attorneys for both sides were in the hallway speaking to the media and got angry at each other.
Jacksons' attorney Brian Panish and AEG's attorney Marvin Putnam shouted words to each other. Sheriffs were summoned to calm them down.

Is that normal behaviour in court or outside of the court?
I would have like to see that shouting match, 2 grown up men shouting so much that sheriffs had to cool them down:smilerolleyes:

 

[Mneme]

I cannot remember which of the witness testified or was it even mentioned during the trial, but I thought somebody mentioned (Kenny) that Michael had some sort of hip problem, something popped out when he was dancing and it caused pain. I think you can see it on TII when Michael is holding his side.
Can somebody remeber anything about that hip problem?

Murray also mentioned this to Detective Martinez on June 27., 2009; pages 11/12:

"Detektive Martinez (D.M.): Can you tell us about the general health of Mr. Jackson?

Conrad Murray (C.M.): Generally speaking, he was not a person who ate well. He is very thin. There were --- I know he
probably was seeing other physicians for other issues that he does not diclose to me, clearly. So I'm not sure if he was so very
candid about all of his general conditions. But during a cursory physical examination I did not find any major physical change
except for a subluxation of his right hip.

D.M.: A what?

C.M.: Subluxation

D.M.: I don't know what that means.

C.M.: He --- It's like if you have a joint that goes out of place and comes back in at a certain angel. So when ever he bent to
90 degrees or greater, his right hip would slip out of joint - sits back up, slides back in. That weas the case. ......"

 

[ultravioletrae]

If it is helpful to anyone here, I think I can add a music industry perspective to this that might help clarify how and why MJ entered into business with AEG.

I'm sure everyone here knows, that the recording industry lost control of the way music is distributed when technology made it possible to file share, download music, copy CDs, etc. The industry was extremely slow in responding to these changes, and while CD sales tanked, revenue from downloads and YouTube was very, very poor. As a result, business models had to change very quickly.

In the 1980s when Thriller was a hit, the point of touring was not to make a lot of money from the tour itself, the point was to promote and increase record sales at a time when recording was very lucrative for major artists and their labels. But because of the changes in technology and distribution, this model had to flip. Consumers no longer purchased a lot of CDs, and downloads were not very profitable, so artists began to find ways to monetize their work through touring revenues. Here is a quick explanation: http://www.artistshousemusic.org/videos/touring+as+a+source+of+revenue

As always, MJ was a savvy business man, knowing how to deliver dazzling quality to the largest audiences possible at an affordable price. As opposed to previous years, in 2009 touring was by far the best way to monetize his work. The demand for tickets was so extraordinary, it would allow him to do "sit downs" or "residencies" in various locations, rather than doing the punishing "one-nighters" and "split-weeks" he endured earlier in his career.

The 90/10 contract between MJ and AEG, (meaning MJ took 90% of the net profit, while AEG took 10%) would have brought in huge revenues, but there were many more revenue streams available to both parties as well, as Erk testified. But I don't believe that Erk's calculations included broadcast revenue (AEG was interested in securing "pay per view" revenue streams) and it's quite possible MJ could have shared in the secondary ticket sales, which were not mentioned. I've also heard about MJ's innovative plan to release new singles, one at a time, until a complete album emerged, and there was talk of a Halloween Special as well. These were not calculated by Erk either. Bottom line, this was a very lucrative deal with many other possible revenue streams. Never underestimate MJ when it comes to business!

So, from an industry perspective, there were a lot of reasons for MJ to suddenly "love to tour," given his objective to make as much money possible in a short amount of time so he could start his film work and the other projects he wanted to do. The old ways of doing business just would not have worked, not for any artist, and not for any reason other than industry changes.

Hope this helps to clarify some points.

 

[ivy]

If it is helpful to anyone here,

It is very helpful and I don't think anyone is denying this industry change. However still how realistic is the estimated numbers though?

Let's go with the most successful tour. U2 360 tour, 3 years, 111 shows, gross of $736 Million and attendance of 7.2 Million.

I'll ask how realistic is 3 years 260 shows or 4 years 338 shows is?

 

[ultravioletrae]

Here's some more info: http://www.artistshousemusic.org/videos/who+makes+money+from+a+major+tour

If the objective was to monetize your music in 2009, (not 1980 or 1990) the reality is you need to tour. I think Erk's numbers are understated. Still many other revenue streams that still haven't been considered, interest on the money in escrow, the publishing deal with Opus, etc. etc.

 

[Aquarius]

Do Erk's calculations include the cost of production, transportation, etc?

 

[ultravioletrae]

Production costs (I'm going by memory, it's been a while since I read the AEG/MJ contract) were deducted from the artist's side, transportation was deducted from the gross.

Yes, Erk's calculations consider net/gross revenues.

 

[8701girl]

So i hearaeg wont call murray to testify and i bet its cuz they scared he will slip up!

 

[8701girl]

Actually he didn't. It was an auto correct mistake on ABC Court's twitter:

@ABC7Courts

@K_N_Ife You're right. Apologies! "Billie Jean" and "Man in The Mirror"are the right songs. Auto-correct...

Oh ok i thought it was that guy testifying in court who said it

 

[jamba]

I think Erk mentioned that the price of the tickets had to increase to get the #s he was floating, and this is a BIG issue b/c the tickets for the O2 concerts (as I understand it) were relatively cheap--like $75 for the regular tickets. That is really a lowball price IMO, so I don't know how MJ was going to make so much $ from the 50 shows. In fact, there was a big deal by Joe and Leonard Rowe to see if MJ could grt paid in pounds rather than dollars so he could get a bit more $. Also, apparently, there were tickets that were higher priced that AEG did not sell through the online sales but held back and sold via another company, and I am not sure if MJ was going to profit any more than from the regular ticket price.

IMO Erk is delusional, but it's just my 2 cents. IMO it is clear there is no way MJ wanted to or would have toured for 4 years in 260 concerts--to me, that is totally nuts given what he has clearly said his goals were, esp. to buy a permanent house for his kids in Vegas and to work on movies. It is interesting that Paris is confirming this in the clip from her deposition that MJ would not have toured after he finished TII. A plan suggested by AEG in September 2008 but not made a sure thing in asubsequent contract re a world tour is not a reality.

I can't believe the judge asking Panish to turn around b/c he is making faces at the AEG attorney! This is so immature. Judge should get tough (I know I am dreaming) and threaten sanctions. Make him stand in a corner??? Write 100 times, "I will not make faces or flip the bird at defense attorneys"?

We are at day 50--they are throwing everything including the kitchen sink at this jury. By now the jury should be totally confused re what is fact and what is fiction. IMO the plaintiffs are taking advantage of the world-wide response to MJ's death, which was a renewed interest in his music, etc., and big sales boost. If that had not happened, there is no way they could make these insane predictions of his earning power. Didn't Gongaware testify that MJ made NO MONEY on one of the tours--either Dangerous or HIStory??? So these estimates of future earnings are really based on his posthumous sales, not what was happening re sales while he was alive--IMO.

 

[8701girl]

I can't believe the judge asking Panish to turn around b/c he is making faces at the AEG attorney! This is so immature. Judge should get tough (I know I am dreaming) and threaten sanctions. Make him stand in a corner??? Write 100 times, "I will not make faces or flip the bird at defense attorneys"?

This all reminds me of students at school picking & fighting with each other its pathetic

 

[Petrarose]

KJ says in deposition that between MJ moving to Carolwood (end of 2008) and announcement in UK (March 2009) MJ never told her he is returning to the stage. Interesting indeed. I was wondering as KJ is the closest of the family to MJ, why didn't he tell her that he is returning on stage?

Sorry but the latest number is 338 shows in 48 months, and 4 tours after that. If plaintiffs keep Erk on stand few more days, that number will increase, after all, he is earning his $ 300 thousand from this case and he seems to be willing to go to moon with his estimates

Oh Oh ^^thanks for the correction. At least Erk is really making sure the plaintiffs get what they are paying for.

Love your superhero graphic above. It needs a caption:
Welcome to Mighty Mike the Supertourer. The Super Hero Who Keeps On Touring After The End.

Erk reminds me of that Skyfall song when Adele begins to sing "This is the end, hold your breath & count to 10." A pity she did not sing "Hold your breath and count to 40 billion."

 

[Mechi]

I think it's because the Murray guy is a proven liar! So whatever he says, it's not really worth to listen to him or for any side of any benefit... and if you ask me, not only in court it's not worth it to let him talk or even listen to what he says.

 

[ivy]

So i hearaeg wont call murray to testify and i bet its cuz they scared he will slip up!

I think it's because the Murray guy is a proven liar! So whatever he says, it's not really worth to listen to him or for any side of any benefit... and if you ask me, not only in court it's not worth it to let him talk or even listen to what he says.

I agree with Mechi. Murray is a convicted felon, generally people do not give much credibility to convicted felons.

 

[Bubs]

We are at day 50--they are throwing everything including the kitchen sink at this jury. By now the jury should be totally confused re what is fact and what is fiction. IMO the plaintiffs are taking advantage of the world-wide response to MJ's death, which was a renewed interest in his music, etc., and big sales boost. If that had not happened, there is no way they could make these insane predictions of his earning power. Didn't Gongaware testify that MJ made NO MONEY on one of the tours--either Dangerous or HIStory??? So these estimates of future earnings are really based on his posthumous sales, not what was happening re sales while he was alive--IMO.

I agree.
------------
Erk acknowledged MJ did 275 shows between 20-50 years old.
Strong: So you had him do 455 shows over 5 tours until the age of 66?

Another words, Strong says Erk had MJ to do 455 shows between 50-66 (inside of 15 years).
1 and half times more than he ever did inside of 30 years :scratch:
-------------------------
"Before Superior Court Judge Yvette Palazuelos took the bench, she called the attorneys into her chambers. Panish and Boyle said she told the attorneys they were embarrassing everyone.

Palazuelos told them not to repeat their actions or she would punish them or bring them over to Presiding Judge Daniel Buckley. Both apologized, the two attorneys said.

Boyle said he jokingly asked Palazuelos if it was OK for him to argue with Jessica Stebbins Bina, another AEG attorney, who, like Putnam, works for O'Melveny and Myers"

They sound like 2 school kids and judge is like teacher telling them if they don't stop fighting, she is going to take them to the principal's office for discipline actions.
:fencing:
---------------

Strong was standing behind a lectern, a foot or two behind the seated Panish, who had turned around to look at her. At one point jurors laughed. "Did I miss something?" the judge asked.
"I think we have Mr. Panish making faces at me," Strong said.
Panish complained that Strong was "doing it. Raising eyebrows and doing other things. That's why I wanted to watch."
Palazuelos replied, "The good thing about where I sit is I can see everything.”
A few minutes later the judge saw Panish looking at Strong again. "Mr. Panish," she said, like a teacher scolding a wayward student, and made a hand motion for him to turn around.
A little later she gave Panish the signal again .“Remember what I said about turning around so I can see you," she said. "I want to see all of you.”

Panish sounds like typical school bully, but this is an adult and instead of school this happens in the courtroom :ermm:
I agree what Putnam said: "Panish had "defamed a number of people inside the courtroom and outside the courtroom."

 

[Bubs]

Oh Oh ^^thanks for the correction. At least Erk is really making sure the plaintiffs get what they are paying for.

Sorry, that is an old information. The most recent is 455 shows over 5 tours until Michael is age of 66 :cheeky:
That should be the final number as he is finished testifying. We'll see if plaintiffs wins, and what jurors are going to award speculative damages, and whether Erk earned his $300 thousand.

 

[Tygger]

Anthony McCartney ‏@mccartneyAP 5h
During arguments on Dr. Brown's testimony, the judge asked AEG's attorneys whether they intend to call Conrad Murray.

The plaintiffs did not call him and it is good news the defense will not call him either. There is no reason on earth for anyone to listen to that doctor in my view.

Is it just as impossible for Michael to do 186 shows as it would be for him to do 260? 260 is not impossible at all compared to AEG's 186 when you see the calculation. BOTH estimate 2 shows a week.

ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts
Erk said AEG had 1.59 show per week in their projection and Erk had 1.60 shows per week in his projection.
ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts
186 shows over 27 months -- Gongaware projection
260 shows over 37 months -- Erk projection

The jurors may very well do what I suggested before: remove themselves from the number and focus on the activity. AEG was conservative with their numbers but, were looking into many of those activities as per AEG’s own emails and documents. AEG was banking on Michael even though they now believe Michael would not be as successful as this expert testified to due to: molestation charges (again, I will have to review the transcripts to see if Strong remembered to say Michael was acquitted in 2005 although Panish made sure it was mentioned), dangling his youngest over a balcony, spending lavishly according to some reports, being more successful in the 80’s, being too old at 50 to be a fashion icon for younger people, negative publicity, and I forgot to mention AEG’s mention of Michael’s demerol usage the day before. The conservative amounts of AEG did not cover Michael’s $400M debt so Michael was most likely going to continue touring. The only dispute is the numbers. Sometimes, this is resolved by finding the middle ground. Here, it might be 223 shows at approximately $485M.

Virre, no worries regarding reading my posts. Regardless of what some feel Michael would have done, what I feel Michael would have done, and what Michael said in the past in public and private, no one knows definitively what Michael would have done. It is ALL assumption. Michael could not embark on films before finding financial stability and we do not know how many shows it would take for Michael to get where he wanted to be. Jamba, Michael's age would not matter here; Michael was responsible enough to do what was necessary to get the stability he wanted.

ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts
Email cont'd: how well we have rehabilitated him and very lucrative "exotics".
ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts
Email cont'd: taking advantages of the gigantic secondary ticket market, massive sponsoring opportunities subject to
ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts
Email from September 2008 plan:
In July 2009 -- If all goes well, we embark on a well routed and spread out worldwide tour
ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts
"If London goes smoothly, we could migrate this show to the brand new, state-of-the-art stadium in Berlin, the O2 World," Phillips wrote.
ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts
Erk went through the email describing what Phillips' plans were.

ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts
Email cont'd: It's a big number, but this is not a number MJ will want to hear. He thinks he's so much bigger than that
ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts
Email cont'd: On paper, it starts Jan 9 and runs thru April 2011...
Right now we project 186 shows... Net to Mikey $132 million
ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts
Email from Gongaware:
MJ first draft worldwide tour projection
Here's a first-draft look at worldwide MJ tour.

AEG’s Phillips/Gongaware’s emails have really been the death of the defense in this trial.

I did not say anything was wrong with it but again you need to consider how realistic it is. Jacksons talked about failed interventions so what makes you think AEG would be successful in any similar attempt? Do you expect AEG to force Michael into rehab - something I thought everyone was against (and I mean control over Michael).

Ivy, why would I expect AEG to force Michael into rehab when that is not necessary? All signs pointed to slowing down the TII process because the star was not able to perform as needed. It is only unrealistic because AEG was not willing to postpone this tour for any reasons including Michael's non-performance.

 

[Mechi]

About the argument Jacksons failed in interventions so how can they expect AEGs interventions.
We're talking about responsiblity. I think because one failed in it, it doesn't mean the other one is rightfully when failing in it also. The (to me also sad) thing is, the Jacksons are not on trial here! As I said, it's easier to understand when you think of three beautiful kids losing the only parent they knew.

About AEGlives liability to me:
It's not about forcing anyone into rehab and/or treatment of another/different doctor.
But as a company which wants success for a certain project many ppl involved are working on, you better give that advice to someone in problems (of which kind ever doesn't matter, when it's your knowledge you better respond) working with you on that project, of cuz in all privacy (no doubt!!!). It doesn't matter if the person agrees with you or accepts and follows your tries/advices etc. You just make sure you gave that advice and you can prove later you did that! Let the person sign you talked to her/him like that or have a witness with you so that witness can sign with you.
It simply protects you from getting into trouble AEGlive is in right now.
And Jackson this or that (that is simply another page of the whole book they are surely not without guilt to me also)... to me AEGlive is pretty rightfully in trouble here! edit: at least yet!

 

[bouee]

It is very helpful and I don't think anyone is denying this industry change. However still how realistic is the estimated numbers though?

Let's go with the most successful tour. U2 360 tour, 3 years, 111 shows, gross of $736 Million and attendance of 7.2 Million.

I'll ask how realistic is 3 years 260 shows or 4 years 338 shows is?

Another words, Strong says Erk had MJ to do 455 shows between 50-66 (inside of 15 years).

About the comparison with U2's "360 tour" highest grossing tour ever so far :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U2_360°_Tour


It started on june 30th 2009 and ended on 30th july 2011. So that's 2 years, not including rehearsals. But a part of the Norh American leg had to be postponed, Bono had an accident. The original schedule was to end it on 13 th april 2011. That would have been 20.5 months, a little less than 2 years.
There were 110 shows , so that's an average of 5.5 shows a month, including breaks.

So based on that :
3 years (36 months) = 198 shows
4 years (48 months) = 264 shows.

Now a U2 show is not a Michael Jackson show . I like U2, so I don't mean to criticize them but Bono's dancing doesn't really compare to Michael's... So their schedule is not realistic at all for Michael anyway. They had back to back shows, and apart from the 6 months break due to Bono's accident, the breaks were relatively short.

Over 15 years :

180 months = 990 shows (based on U2's schedule, non stop for 15 years, not realistic at all).

455 / 180 = an average of 2.5 shows/month. IF based on residencies (not actual tours where you go to a different city several times a week), that sounds less unrealistic to me.

I have not read testimonies for the last 2 days- I'm not that interested in that aspect of the trial. I don't know how you can put a price tag on someone's life, and I'm not comfortable with that. So based on what I read in this thread :

Jackson's theory is that Michael could have been efficiently helped by a sleep specialist. I don't know if that's true , since we don't know why Michael had insomnia. My point is to say that their theory makes sense, even though the numbers given sometimes don't seem to make sense, and Michael did not want to tour much.

AEG was saying that TII sales were phenomenal, they had never seen that before. Phillips sent an e mail saying that in 2008 Michael was Sony's best selling artist or something to that effect.
And now they are fighting unrealistic figures with the Blanket dangling incident, demerol, allegations ? First that doesn't make sense to me, they are contradicting themselves, second, low blows again, perfectly unneccessary if the figures are unrealistic and if Michael is on record saying he didn't want to tour that much, confirmed by Katherine's and Paris' depos.

I think it's because the Murray guy is a proven liar! So whatever he says, it's not really worth to listen to him or for any side of any benefit... and if you ask me, not only in court it's not worth it to let him talk or even listen to what he says.

And he is unpredictable ! What if he starts to sing songs on the stand or say he's talking to Michael's spirit ? I thought it was the Jacksons who wanted to depose him, but eventually they did not.

 

[bouee]

About the argument Jacksons failed in interventions so how can they expect AEGs interventions.
We're talking about responsiblity. I think because one failed in it, it doesn't mean the other one is rightfully when failing in it also. The (to me also sad) thing is, the Jacksons are not on trial here! As I said, it's easier to understand when you think of three beautiful kids losing the only parent they knew.

About AEGlives liability to me:
It's not about forcing anyone into rehab and/or treatment of another/different doctor.
But as a company which wants success for a certain project many ppl involved are working on, you better give that advice to someone in problems (of which kind ever doesn't matter, when it's your knowledge you better respond) working with you on that project, of cuz in all privacy (no doubt!!!). It doesn't matter if the person agrees with you or accepts and follows your tries/advices etc. You just make sure you gave that advice and you can prove later you did that! Let the person sign you talked to her/him like that or have a witness with you so that witness can sign with you.
It simply protects you from getting into trouble AEGlive is in right now.
And Jackson this or that (that is simply another page of the whole book they are surely not without guilt to me also)... to me AEGlive is pretty rightfully in trouble here! edit: at least yet!

I totally agree with you, and would add that given what they saw, they should have stopped the hiring process of Murray. It's not like Michael could have forced them, he couldn't have in the last days. That might not have changed what happened on june 25th, but I don't think it's the point. The point is what AEG did. AEG should have wanted nothing to do with Murray, they had enough info to understand that something was wrong with him. But the opposite happened.

 

[Bubs]

"Jackson's theory is that Michael could have been efficiently helped by a sleep specialist. I don't know if that's true , since we don't know why Michael had insomnia. My point is to say that their theory makes sense, even though the numbers given sometimes don't seem to make sense, and Michael did not want to tour much."

Yes, Jackson's says that Michael could have been helped with a sleep specialist, but don't they contradict themselves with that statement? Michael lived with his imsomnia for years and years (KJ in her book mentioned that even as a child, MJ would be up all hours), and when his still lived home and even after, his family did nothing to help to find a help for his imsomnia.
What makes you to say that there was going to be a change after all these years? There is no evidence to support that claim.

"AEG was saying that TII sales were phenomenal, they had never seen that before. Phillips sent an e mail saying that in 2008 Michael was Sony's best selling artist or something to that effect.
And now they are fighting unrealistic figures with the Blanket dangling incident, demerol, allegations ? First that doesn't make sense to me, they are contradicting themselves, second, low blows again, perfectly unneccessary if the figures are unrealistic and if Michael is on record saying he didn't want to tour that much, confirmed by Katherine's and Paris' depos."

What Putnam said in his opening statement:
Putnam says all of this changed in June 25, 2009. He says Jackson said a lot of things in their opening statements about Defendants AEG going to show some ugly stuff and Putnam say it is true. He explains that AEG, Phillips and Gongaware were sued and as a result they need to find out what happened. Putnam says the jury will see it over the next months. He says it’s not a pretty picture and AEG will not rush into this courtroom to show it to the jury but they have to defend themselves.

That is the name of the game. Noone wants to lose millions, especially if they feel that they are not guilty of any wrong doing. Tmezz did the same thing in 2005. He dug out some dirt of A family and presented it on court.
Both sides on this trial are doing the same, throwing so much dirt around that none of them look squeaky clean after that.
Basically, as Putnam said it, we wouldn't be hearing those things if they weren't dragged to this extortion case.

"given what they saw, they should have stopped the hiring process of Murray. It's not like Michael could have forced them, he couldn't have in the last days. That might not have changed what happened on june 25th, but I don't think it's the point. The point is what AEG did. AEG should have wanted nothing to do with Murray, they had enough info to understand that something was wrong with him. But the opposite happened."

You assume a lot. First of, CM was the only one signed to contract, then it would have gone to MJ to be signed. What makes you think that it was 100% sure he was going to sign it and AEG people knew he was going to sign it?
You wrote it not like MJ could have force them. I think we all know about those broken contracts (lawsuits followed) that MJ didn't want to do reason or another. You keep repeating the same issue over and over again that AEG should have wanted nothing to do with CM. Assumption again. So far, there isn't any testimony in which any person says that they suspected CM was the one making MJ ill.
To me the whole situation was like they were playing "pin the tail on the donkey" game. They knew something was not right, but they couldn't pinpoint the source of the problem.
What Putnam said in his opening statement makes sense:
Putnam says to the jury it is easy to look to things in retrospect but asks the jury to look to what people actually saw, knew and understood at the time – before June 25, 2009. Putnam says they will bring people to testify about what they actually saw and experienced from Michael’s mother, kids to people who worked for & with him. Putnam says this will show what people were actually seeing at that time, what they knew.

 

[gerryevans]

I totally agree with you, and would add that given what they saw, they should have stopped the hiring process of Murray. It's not like Michael could have forced them, he couldn't have in the last days. That might not have changed what happened on june 25th, but I don't think it's the point. The point is what AEG did. AEG should have wanted nothing to do with Murray, they had enough info to understand that something was wrong with him. But the opposite happened.

That's just it. There was NO info that Murray was the REASON MJ was declining. They could say he was not helping him get better, but everyone, Ortega, Karen...all thought MJ was suffering an anxiety and stressed induced psychological decline, manifesting itself physically, helped along possibly by whatever Klien was giving him, because it was after the Klien treatments they saw that MJ was "loopy".

So what info did they have that Murray was the cause of MJ's decline? If the answer is because he was treating him, he was treating him for three years prior to the tour, and Mike's preliminary exam showed he was in good health. So for three years he kept him in good health, and suddenly in a 8 week span, he's doing something to him to make him sick, and to jeopardize his $150,000 a month. Who really would look to Murray as the reason for the change, when all evidence showed the reason was the tour itself, especially when you saw MJ's distress on the day that he was just announcing it. Prior to that,they saw a competent business man.

And when I read people actually believe MJ could do 260 tour dates in three years, when he's in his 50's and 20 years older than when he did the BAD tour with less than half that number, you realize how much it was true when he said, people think he's a machine. That's some kind of pressure to live under, enough to make anyone emotionally and physically ill, without the assist of a doctor. I don't think anyone would be that quick to point their finger to Murray, when on the surface, this was a successful physician with 4 practices, who helped the poor, etc. etc. So I just don't see the info they had to dump him by that June 20 meeting.