So are Ya'll ready to believe that Rod Temperton stole song writing credits from Greg Phillinganes too?

[kelley]

So since some fans are quick to believe any posthumous claims that Michael "stole" credit from people, including Greg. And since certain posters here have claimed Michael didn't know music enough to write songs like "Stranger in Moscow", I want to turn everybody's attention to this recently released video Grag is featured in

He makes some bold claims, not only about Michael's songs but also about the songs of veteran legendary Song Writer Rod Temperton!

At 3:40 Greg claims that he came up with the "rhythm arrangement" (whatever that means) and the "drum beat" for "Shake your body down to the ground" which was written by Michael and Randy.

This is a brand new claim and an odd one considering Michael was more than capable of creating that drum beat with his beat boxing and Randy was literally the percussionist in the Jacksons........but I guess they just got writers block? Clearly what Greg said must be true, cause he said it and that's that.

But who cares about Michael, he's already been branded a thief with little push back from certain fans. And since he doesn't get the same respect as other composers and song writers, lets move on to Greg's next new claim.

At 3:53 after claiming he wrote parts of SYBDTTG, Greg then goes on to insinuate that he wrote parts of "Blame it on the Boogie" again using the vague term "arrangement" The interviewer assumes he is claiming to have wrote the parts and asks him point blank if he wrote it, to which Gregs is forced to admit he just "arranged" it. By the way I looked it up and at least one of the writers of BOTB, Mick Jackson, is still alive. Remember that, because it's relevant.

At 6:58 Greg now claims he wrote the famous Hook to "Rock with you"!

Wait a minute now. Rock With You written by the legendary and highly respected Rod Temperton!

Lets have a look at the credits

Written and composed by Rod Temperton Produced by Quincy Jones Recorded and mixed by Bruce Swedien Michael Jackson – lead and backing vocals Bobby Watson – bass John Robinson – drums David Williams, Marlo Henderson – electric guitar Greg Phillinganes, Michael Boddicker – synthesizers David "Hawk" Wolinski – Fender Rhodes

Horns arranged by Jerry Hey and performed by The Seawind Horns Jerry Hey – trumpet and flugelhorn Larry Williams – tenor, alto saxophones and flute Kim Hutchcroft – baritone, tenor saxophones and flute William Reichenbach – trombone Gary Grant – trumpet Rhythm and vocal arrangements by Rod Temperton String arrangement by Ben Wright Concert master – Gerald Vinci

Hmm no mention of Greg composing the hook! So it looks like old Temperton didn't credit him for his brilliant work. The hook on Rock with you isn't any different than the one on Don't stop til you get enough, and Greg (and quincy) claim he should have gotten a writing credit on that. But strangely they never mentioned him getting stiffed on Rock with you.

I just find it interesting that now Greg is claiming he did more on the Temperton song all of a sudden.

Fortunately for Greg, Temperton, like Michael is Dead now. So he's free to say whatever he wants with no repercussions.

But Mick Jackson is still alive and can sue, so Greg made sure to be careful not to claim his song.

 

[innuendo141]

Kelley the original 7" for DSTYGE credits Greg - This was then removed. You can check Discogs to back this up. Get over it.

I've never across the 2 message boards I've seen you on post anything remotely positive. Your entire online MO is to attack anyone who even remotely criticises Michael Jackson. You've been on my mutelist for a while now.

Give it a rest.

Also, never quote Wikipedia if you want to be taken seriously. You come across as a professional online-argumenter, I'm shocked you wouldnt know this.

 

[MJJuniorSinceMW]

It's somewhat like with all of the other accusations.
If they are voiced after the person in question has passed away, it loses it's credibility.
Why not speak up in all of the time the person was still alive?
If the accuser hadn't had the balls to say something when the accused was alive, they should stay silent.
It's unfair because there can't be a response and it just comes off as pity.

 

[blair]

Michael have been very generous the first time he have credited him the first time, Michael have created the intro of Human Nature but have taken no credit from it, Temperton for the song "Just once", I like Greg but he have clearly taken too much credit for something we can resume like an arrangement (and it's very good to that), that sound a little "unfair" but it was the way these artists worked during these times.

 

[innuendo141]

Michael have been very generous the first time he have credited him the first time, Michael have created the intro of Human Nature but have taken no credit from it, Temperton for the song "Just once", I like Greg but he have clearly taken too much credit for something we can resume like an arrangement (and it's very good to that), that sound a little "unfair" but it was the way these artists worked during these times.

I don't think this is true - I have never seen this claimed before. Is there a source?

There are several songs on Invincible he got a writing credit that he should not have - this is fact, as confirmed by writers demos. This makes that point mute.

It always seems like people pointing this out are considered to be insulting or haters.

 

[blair]

That from Porcaro himself:

around 2min38, you can also hear the demo from Toto in youtube, the intro is not here; Carole Bayer Sager have told a similar story for the music "Just Friends" that Michael have produced, there are a thread about that:

Carole Bayer Sager Feat. MICHAEL JACKSON

Did you know that on Carole Bayer Sager's just-released album (Sometimes Late at Night), there's a featuring with Michael on track 2? I didn't know he was on that album! so cool

www.mjjcommunity.com

. " When he came by , I was recording a song called " Just Friends . ” He listened for a while , then asked , " Do you mind if I play around with something ? " We didn't mind at all - Burt admired him as much as I did , which was saying something . Michael took Paul Jackson , a wonderful guitarist who was playing guitar on the session , into the bathroom with him to work on another concept of the track and came back with a totally different arrangement with a whole new feel that even Burt said was better than what he had done .

He has also made some arrangement for PYT (according Ingram) and Thriller (according Philliganes) without any credits.

Michael Jackson from Invincible was just the shadow of himself, younger he was far more involved

 

[kelley]

Kelley the original 7" for DSTYGE credits Greg - This was then removed. You can check Discogs to back this up. Get over it.

I've never across the 2 message boards I've seen you on post anything remotely positive. Your entire online MO is to attack anyone who even remotely criticises Michael Jackson. You've been on my mutelist for a while now.

Give it a rest.

Also, never quote Wikipedia if you want to be taken seriously. You come across as a professional online-argumenter, I'm shocked you wouldnt know this.

I literally said forget about Michael.

This is about greg claiming the hook on rock with you. But not until after temperton was dead.

Please stay on topic.

 

[kelley]

That from Porcaro himself:

around 2min38, you can also hear the demo from Toto in youtube, the intro is not here; Carole Bayer Sager have told a similar story for the music "Just Friends" that Michael have produced, there are a thread about that:

Carole Bayer Sager Feat. MICHAEL JACKSON

Did you know that on Carole Bayer Sager's just-released album (Sometimes Late at Night), there's a featuring with Michael on track 2? I didn't know he was on that album! so cool

www.mjjcommunity.com

. " When he came by , I was recording a song called " Just Friends . ” He listened for a while , then asked , " Do you mind if I play around with something ? " We didn't mind at all - Burt admired him as much as I did , which was saying something . Michael took Paul Jackson , a wonderful guitarist who was playing guitar on the session , into the bathroom with him to work on another concept of the track and came back with a totally different arrangement with a whole new feel that even Burt said was better than what he had done .

He has also made some arrangement for PYT (according Ingram) and Thriller (according Philliganes) without any credits.

Michael Jackson from Invincible was just the shadow of himself, younger he was far more involved

@innuendo141 this person forgot to quote your post, but they provided evidence from Steve porcaro himself that Michael did the intro for Human Nature. Which as they pointed out was uncredited to him,​

Also here are the demos of Human Nature so you can see what Michael added


Original

Michael's early demo which still doesn't have the intro parts and you can hear michael adding some changes on the spot

 

[AlwaysThere]

So let’s say Greg is lying (which I don’t believe he is). This is NOT the first time MJ has been accused of taking undue credit for songs, whether production or songwriting. So even if Greg is somehow debunked, that means nothing to the many other claims made.

It is okay to acknowledge that MJ wasn’t perfect and didn’t always make the best decisions.

 

[apple🍎]

These discussions are just a he said she said. He might be lying, he might be not, but you shouldn't take it so seriously as long as it's a he said she said

 

[kelley]

So let’s say Greg is lying (which I don’t believe he is). This is NOT the first time MJ has been accused of taking undue credit for songs, whether production or songwriting. So even if Greg is somehow debunked, that means nothing to the many other claims made.

This is a bold claim to make and should be backed up with evidence.

And you missed the point entirely. If Greg never claimed a writing credit for the Rock With You hook, why did he think he deserved on for DSTYGE?

Why didn't quincy Jones accuse Temperton of stealing credit from Greg?

It is okay to acknowledge that MJ wasn’t perfect and didn’t always make the best decisions.

And it's okay to acknowledge that people LIE and exaggerate on Michael all the time.

 

[kelley]

These discussions are just a he said she said. He might be lying, he might be not, but you shouldn't take it so seriously as long as it's a he said she said

Well I do when the claims these people made are used to brand Michael a thief, while other artists who have much stronger actual evidence of them stealing songs and credit (INCLUDING QUINCY) never get attacked or labeled as thieves.

What is it about Michael that makes people so quick to believe anything negative about him?

 

[BlackAnon]

At 6:58 Greg now claims he wrote the famous Hook to "Rock with you"!

Wait a minute now. Rock With You written by the legendary and highly respected Rod Temperton!

Lets have a look at the credits

Written and composed by Rod Temperton Produced by Quincy Jones Recorded and mixed by Bruce Swedien Michael Jackson – lead and backing vocals Bobby Watson – bass John Robinson – drums David Williams, Marlo Henderson – electric guitar Greg Phillinganes, Michael Boddicker – synthesizers David "Hawk" Wolinski – Fender Rhodes

Horns arranged by Jerry Hey and performed by The Seawind Horns Jerry Hey – trumpet and flugelhorn Larry Williams – tenor, alto saxophones and flute Kim Hutchcroft – baritone, tenor saxophones and flute William Reichenbach – trombone Gary Grant – trumpet Rhythm and vocal arrangements by Rod Temperton String arrangement by Ben Wright Concert master – Gerald Vinci

Isn't Greg saying he did the synthesizer on the song? I didn't hear him say he wrote anything but just that was him on the song

 

[AlwaysThere]

Greg has had an arrangement credit on “Shake Your Body” since its release. The video you posted is him acknowledging why he got it. Nothing more.

I’m also re-reading your post, and are you acknowledging that Greg NEVER claimed to have written “Blame It on the Boogie,” but rather he noted having contributed to their arrangements and corrected the interviewer when he misunderstood? And you insist that means Greg is subtly claiming songwriters’ credit? Songwriting and arranging are two different things. Greg specifically says he arranged the songs; you’re insisting he meant something different.

Finally, I watched the “Rock with You” segment, and Greg NEVER claims to have written the chorus. He says, “Remember this?,” plays the synth solo from the instrumental break, and says, “That’s me.” If you read the credits you yourself posted, Greg is credited for synthesizer. He’s very clearly saying that he played that part in the song, not that he wrote it.

With respect, this is a complete and total misinterpretation on your part. Greg never once says “I wrote this and did not get credit” in the video; he says arrangement (which, again, he is credited for and is completely different from composition) and performance. I cannot fathom how anything he said can be seen as negative.

 

[AlwaysThere]

If Greg never claimed a writing credit for the Rock With You hook, why did he think he deserved on for DSTYGE?

Greg never claimed a writing credit for “Rock with You.” He deserved one for “Don’t Stop” because he wrote the bridge.

Why didn't quincy Jones accuse Temperton of stealing credit from Greg?

Greg didn’t write “Rock with You” and never said he did. And even if Quincy did make accusations against Temperton, they ring kinda hollow since Quincy himself has had questionable practice with proper crediting, if I’m not mistaken.

And it's okay to acknowledge that people LIE and exaggerate on Michael all the time.

You’re right. This is not one of those times.

 

[apple🍎]

Well I do when the claims these people made are used to brand Michael a thief, while other artists who have much stronger actual evidence of them stealing songs and credit (INCLUDING QUINCY) never get attacked or labeled as thieves.

What is it about Michael that makes people so quick to believe anything negative about him?

I don't understand. Weren't people calling Q out for stripping John of
WATW credits? And for taking credit for the Bad album when it was brought to him 80% completed ? Like, just a he said she said

 

[blair]

Greg deserve credit....well yes and no, the bridge is a minimal aspect of the song that have been included for the "arrangement" so he was credited for, Michael contribution to Human Nature was maybe more important and he didn't have any credit , It was like that alot of time during these times.

The video seem maybe to imply that he have a strong contribution, the edit is weird, so it's not Greg fault but I'm sure to have read recently that he have the habit to take lot of credits, a little too much, it was about another artist but I can't remember now.

Greg is cool but to call Jackson a thief is a little too much in this context, it was the way the artists worked in production.

Imagine the opposite, Greg wrote 90% a song, Michael wrote a bridge to help him and take half of the credit in the paper, that would be not normal imo

 

[kelley]

Greg has had an arrangement credit on “Shake Your Body” since its release. The video you posted is him acknowledging why he got it. Nothing more.

I specifically disputed his claim about the drum beat. That sounds like pure nonsense. Randy, who was the percussionist likely came up with the drum beat.

I’m also re-reading your post, and are you acknowledging that Greg NEVER claimed to have written “Blame It on the Boogie,” but rather he noted having contributed to their arrangements and corrected the interviewer when he misunderstood? And you insist that means Greg is subtly claiming songwriters’ credit? Songwriting and arranging are two different things. Greg specifically says he arranged the songs; you’re insisting he meant something different.

And I also noted that Mick jackson is still alive. And I find it interesting that his song is the only one that Greg doesn't try to exaggerate his involvement in and he made it clear to the camera that he didn't write that and brought up the British Duo. But he didn't do the same for the other songs. Instead he gives the impression that he wrote the parts being mentioned.

I'm not misinterpreting Greg's statements. The interviewer's question shows he also was clearly under the impression that Greg was talking about parts he wrote during the shake your body discussion.

Finally, I watched the “Rock with You” segment, and Greg NEVER claims to have written the chorus.

That's not what I said. You're attacking a strawman. I said he claimed the HOOK. And the interviewer also called it a "greg phillinganes signature hook" again that statement implies that greg created this hook, not just that he played it. Otherwise why would the interviewer say that?

He says, “Remember this?,” plays the synth solo from the instrumental break, and says, “That’s me.” If you read the credits you yourself posted, Greg is credited for synthesizer. He’s very clearly saying that he played that part in the song, not that he wrote it.

His "that's me" comes after the interviewer called it a "greg phillinganes signature hook" though. If you take the context of the entire conversation into consideration a person could easily watch this and come away thinking Greg composed it.

With respect, this is a complete and total misinterpretation on your part. Greg never once says “I wrote this and did not get credit” in the video; he says arrangement (which, again, he is credited for and is completely different from composition) and performance. I cannot fathom how anything he said can be seen as negative.

So again I'll ask why is he okay with his work on Blame it on the boogie being credited as an arrangement, but then he turns around and claims he should have gotten a writers credit for DSTYGE??

Have you heard the original version of Blame it on the boogie? It's A LOT different from the Jackson's version. It's missing parts from the Jacksons version. But despite all the changes that were made for the Jacksons version, Mick and his co-writers still received all the credit for it. I'm sure Michael and the brothers came up with the "i just can't control my feet part" But they didn't take a writing credit for it.

Greg also probably made a contribution to Blame it on the Boogie. Much more than he did on DSTYGE which sounds nearly identical to Michael's home demo. So why didn't he claim a writing credit for it instead?