Something has been bothering me

[HisTory199]

According to police reports following the ambulance reports- Michael was found with his eyes open and his hands spread out away from his body. My question is- how is that possible? When under propofol patients close their eyes in under 10 secs, why were Michael's eyes open and hands spread out? that is not a position a person would sleep at. Does that mean he woke up at some point? Does anyone has info on that from trial records?

Also what did Thome mean when after Jermaine's speech about his brother's death Thome said "only Jermaine is allowed to give out statements on behalf on MJ family"..didn't Mivhael fire Thome a month before he died? Why was Thome at that press conference? Michael was afraid of him, as we know from his multiple conversations with June. Thome also lied about him being a dorctor or ambassador and has a shady past. after Michael fired him, a witness said that Thome was furious and said he will " bring death and destruction" Where is Thome now? and what is his relation ship with Jermaine and his wife..are they still friends?!

The full video of that conference..where Thome speaks before and after Jermaine, the conference starts at 12:36. Take a look.

http://www.youtube.com/user/LunaJo67

 

[mybluesaway]

In regards to the eyes open issue Dr. Steve Shafer who testified as an expert on propofol and other drugs in Murray trial stated that Michael was deeply unconscious and felt no pain when he died. He also said it didnt mean anything if his eyes were open or closed and no way did he wake up after getting dose of propofol. Hope that helps but now im just sad and disgusted about it all over again. Damn that idiot "Dr." Murray !!! Makes me crazy just to think about how it all went down.

 

[Drama Queen]

In regards to the eyes open issue Dr. Steve Shafer who testified as an expert on propofol and other drugs in Murray trial stated that Michael was deeply unconscious and felt no pain when he died. He also said it didnt mean anything if his eyes were open or closed and no way did he wake up after getting dose of propofol. Hope that helps but now im just sad and disgusted about it all over again. Damn that idiot "Dr." Murray !!! Makes me crazy just to think about how it all went down.

Completely agree. Everything about the whole thing just bothers me so much. If Murray hadn't been so stupid, Michael would still be alive now, and those kids would still have a father. I'm no science geek, but I do know that when someone is not breathing, you call an ambulance immediately. There were reports that Murray didn't even put Michael in the correct recovery position, and it makes my blood boil. Poor Michael, dying in the hands of a clueless doctor who didn't know what the hell he was doing.

 

[schizophrenic]

You need to forget everything Hollywood movies ever taught you about human death. Your eyes open, your jaw loosens in a weird way and the eyes usually are in a weird way and no longer in sync with each other. Death is not so pretty in real life. eh?

 

[Aniram]

^ Interesting you say that, I just had a dream the other day where my dog was sleeping, I saw them breathing one moment. The next moment, their jaw was wide open and their eyes were skewed in different directions, I knew they were dead and I started crying.

 

[jrsfan]

^ Interesting you say that, I just had a dream the other day where my dog was sleeping, I saw them breathing one moment. The next moment, their jaw was wide open and their eyes were skewed in different directions, I knew they were dead and I started crying.

My dog died several years ago & her eyes were shut & remained shut as she had just laid down to go to sleep. She gave 2 deep sighs before she passed. The jaw did not open - her body did go completely limp though.

 

[Aniram]

Yeah, it was just a dream but I just found it interesting. My dog died in my arms a couple years ago, he was having seizures and I just remember him gasping for air and then giving one last breath and stretch up to the air as his muscles tightened and all the life left him... It was so heartbreaking. I was in the parking lot of the vet waiting for them to get there when I lost him. It's so sad to lose good souls.

 

[jrsfan]

Yeah, it was just a dream but I just found it interesting. My dog died in my arms a couple years ago, he was having seizures and I just remember him gasping for air and then giving one last breath and stretch up to the air as his muscles tightened and all the life left him... It was so heartbreaking. I was in the parking lot of the vet waiting for them to get there when I lost him. It's so sad to lose good souls.

It is heartbreaking. I was getting ready to take my dog to the vet when she passed.

 

[QuirkyDiana00]

We know that MJ was given benzos before he was given propofol....the question is was he sedated with those benzos before propofol was administered? If so, why was propofol, given at all? If MJ was sedated with benzos presumably his eyes were closed before the propofol was given, but you'd have to get that confirmed from a doctor that this is always the case. Another question is if the eyes are closed just prior to death would they then open after death?

Murray has always maintained that MJ was not sedated on the benzos, which must mean he was tolerant. Whether Murray lied about MJ not being sedated is an important point to consider for many reasons. If Murray says MJ was not sedated and could not sleep, it could be seen as Murray having no other choice but to give MJ propofol, especially if MJ was awake to request it as Murray said. Murray saying that MJ was awake could just have been a trial strategy for Murray. After all, if MJ was not awake then he would not have demanded the propofol and the focus of blame would be solely on Murray. But also, if MJ was not awake then he was sedated and sleeping so why give propofol at all? It's an intriguing picture.

 

[jrsfan]

We know that MJ was given benzos before he was given propofol....the question is was he sedated with those benzos before propofol was administered? If so, why was propofol, given at all? If MJ was sedated with benzos presumably his eyes were closed before the propofol was given, but you'd have to get that confirmed from a doctor that this is always the case. Another question is if the eyes are closed just prior to death would they then open after death?

Murray has always maintained that MJ was not sedated on the benzos, which must mean he was tolerant. Whether Murray lied about MJ not being sedated is an important point to consider for many reasons. If Murray says MJ was not sedated and could not sleep, it could be seen as Murray having no other choice but to give MJ propofol, especially if MJ was awake to request it as Murray said. Murray saying that MJ was awake could just have been a trial strategy for Murray. After all, if MJ was not awake then he would not have demanded the propofol and the focus of blame would be solely on Murray. But also, if MJ was not awake then he was sedated and sleeping so why give propofol at all? It's an intriguing picture.

I think if his eyes were closed at death, they would not open after death except for a small crack. They could see his eyes were fixed & dilated, although I did notice that AA corrected himself & said they were partially open.