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The Discussion of MJ's Unreleased Tracks

Soldier of Love said:
Thanks for clarifying. Don't Stand Another Chance was apparently his first collaboration with the Jacksons during the Victory sessions.
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I thought you meant his first collaboration with a Jackson member but you might be right.
 
BlackAnon said:
You have a Janet calendar? Post it.....I'm actually interested
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I haven't added studio and producer information yet, but here it is!

It's similar to a Michael Jackson calendar posted by @SeriousFX - shout out to your great work on your calendars by the way! I also color coded the album sessions.

I'd like to post it somewhere for Janet fans to read it and share it. Perhaps I'll start a new thread or put it in the 2300 Jackson St. thread. There were some old Janet forums, but I don't think they're that active anymore. I think there's a Discord sever or something, I'll look into it later.


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xbJPVWUcRex20PwtXYtgQcSTPK_JmMnMZMjN34H7i88/edit?usp=sharing
 
Soldier of Love said:
Ok, thanks for the correction. Probably some overdubbed ad-libs done towards the end of the sessions.

Something interesting I also noticed it that in photos from the sessions for Don't Stand Another Chance, Jermaine can be seen in the studio. However, the album credits don't list his name. I wonder if his vocals were removed for some reason (maybe the record label interference). Or maybe it's just a credits error. Or perhaps those photos are from another song that's in the vaults (maybe All We Have is Love)!

I really like the connection between Dynamite, Victory, and Dream Street, and I hope that Bill Bottrell shares more information from those recording sessions. I've been studying the Jackson family's recording sessions for a couple of years now and jotting down information on their session in docs and spreadsheets. I have some timelines/calendars of their sessions that I'm working on.

I'm particularly proud of the Janet calendar because I haven't seen as much publicly available information on her recording session dates. I'm thinking about posting it, but I'm not sure if there's a big Janet forum or thread that I could post it in.

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it's interesting how intertwined these three seemingly-unrelated projects actually were. And the whole thing about giving outtakes to other artists definitely explains why so many outtakes were handed to artists like Jennifer Holiday ("You're The One"), and Greg Phillinganes ("Playing With Fire" aka "Power").
 
Soldier of Love said:
I haven't added studio and producer information yet, but here it is!

It's similar to a Michael Jackson calendar posted by @SeriousFX - shout out to your great work on your calendars by the way! I also color coded the album sessions.

I'd like to post it somewhere for Janet fans to read it and share it. Perhaps I'll start a new thread or put it in the 2300 Jackson St. thread. There were some old Janet forums, but I don't think they're that active anymore. I think there's a Discord sever or something, I'll look into it later.


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xbJPVWUcRex20PwtXYtgQcSTPK_JmMnMZMjN34H7i88/edit?usp=sharing
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Your session calendar is a lot more spot-on than my attempt at a Janet calendar, and seems to be more closely built off research, especially when it comes to the first two albums. My one criticism, however, is that you seem to have left out "Hungry For Your Love," the one Control outtake cited by Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis, as well as outtakes such as "Beat Crazy" (done shortly after the RN album sessions concluded), "You Oughta Be With Me" (an oft-rumored duet with Johnny Gill done around the RN/JG sessions), "You've Been On My Mind" (a song featuring Young MC that appears in the BMI database), but other than that you've done pretty well!

edit: apparently YOBWM was listed, albiet around 1997 and 1999 rather than 1989 like I assumed, same goes for "You've Been On My Mind," which confuses me since it features Young MC and since "Bust A Move" came out in 1987 I thought that song was done during the Rhythm Nation sessions since he was a hot topic then (then again, it could be a sampling/interlopation credit - like George Clinton being credited on Michael Jackson's recording of BLACKstreet's "Joy" on the BMI listing).

Also intrigued by your assertion that "Feels So Right" and "Who" were initially done for the Nutty Professor II soundtrack. Where'd that come from?
 
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SeriousFX said:
it's interesting how intertwined these three seemingly-unrelated projects actually were. And the whole thing about giving outtakes to other artists definitely explains why so many outtakes were handed to artists like Jennifer Holiday ("You're The One"), and Greg Phillinganes ("Playing With Fire" aka "Power").
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Don’t forget Alright Now going to Ralph
 
Soldier of Love said:
I haven't added studio and producer information yet, but here it is!

It's similar to a Michael Jackson calendar posted by @SeriousFX - shout out to your great work on your calendars by the way! I also color coded the album sessions.

I'd like to post it somewhere for Janet fans to read it and share it. Perhaps I'll start a new thread or put it in the 2300 Jackson St. thread. There were some old Janet forums, but I don't think they're that active anymore. I think there's a Discord sever or something, I'll look into it later.


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xbJPVWUcRex20PwtXYtgQcSTPK_JmMnMZMjN34H7i88/edit?usp=sharing
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Thank you for this! Lots of titles I haven’t seen. where did you get the information about the unreleased tracks?
 
SeriousFX said:
Your session calendar is a lot more spot-on than my attempt at a Janet calendar, and seems to be more closely built off research, especially when it comes to the first two albums. My one criticism, however, is that you seem to have left out "Hungry For Your Love," the one Control outtake cited by Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis, as well as outtakes such as "Beat Crazy" (done shortly after the RN album sessions concluded), "You Oughta Be With Me" (an oft-rumored duet with Johnny Gill done around the RN/JG sessions), "You've Been On My Mind" (a song featuring Young MC that appears in the BMI database), but other than that you've done pretty well!

edit: apparently YOBWM was listed, albiet around 1997 and 1999 rather than 1989 like I assumed, same goes for "You've Been On My Mind," which confuses me since it features Young MC and since "Bust A Move" came out in 1987 I thought that song was done during the Rhythm Nation sessions since he was a hot topic then.

Also intrigued by your assertion that "Feels So Right" and "Who" were initially done for the Nutty Professor II soundtrack. Where'd that come from?
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As for your question regarding the Nutty songs, READ:
https://archive.org/details/billboa...3/page/902/mode/2up?q="doesn't+really+matter"
AND
https://web.archive.org/web/2014022...70/jimmy-jam-prepping-klumps-soundtrack.jhtml

And also LISTEN CLOSELY to Who. In the intro (despite what I've seen on lyric websites), it seems that she is saying "I love this big, fat man"! Lyrics sites say, "I love this big Bruh-man", but I'm pretty sure I'm hearing otherwise (I'll listen to it again). And the overall theme of the lyrics is similar to "Doesn't Really Matter" and "Feels So Right". "Who" is clearly the third song Jimmy was referring to.

As for those other titles you mentioned, I'm sure I've heard some of them before, but I can't recall where. I try to base all of my info on the most reliable sources and not just fan assumptions. I only speculate every once in a while, where there is no info available. For example, the Discipline sessions still stump me because they were rather short and it's hard to figure out which producers she worked with first and last.

But yeah, I think I heard of "You Oughta Be With Me" and "Hungry For Your Love" on some old website, forgot which one. "Beat Crazy" sounds familiar too. Can you please link me to your sources for "You Oughta Be With Me" and "Hungry For Your Love"? I don't recall Jimmy Jam citing the song. Also, can you provide your sources for the Johnny Gill and Young MC collabs? I didn't know about Johnny being on the song, but it makes sense since he appeared on Escapade and The Skin Game. It was probably from the early Rhythm Nation sessions if that info is correct. What is your source for the recording date of "Beat Crazy"?
 
BlackAnon said:
Thank you for this! Lots of titles I haven’t seen. where did you get the information about the unreleased tracks?
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You're very welcome!

I've studied SO MANY sources over the years, that it would take all day to list them! Most of the unreleased tracks were either leaked, discussed in interviews, or found in databases. I looked at the producers and narrowed down what sessions they were probably from. I'll share some more sources in my next reply.
 
Soldier of Love said:
You're very welcome!

I've studied SO MANY sources over the years, that it would take all day to list them! Most of the unreleased tracks were either leaked, discussed in interviews, or found in databases. I looked at the producers and narrowed down what sessions they were probably from. I'll share some more sources in my next reply.
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You can add Slave 4 U to the list as well. Pharrell confirmed Janet recorded it but scrapped it. I’m assuming it was for AFY
 
Soldier of Love said:
As for your question regarding the Nutty songs, READ:
https://archive.org/details/billboardbookofn0000bron_f8a3/page/902/mode/2up?q="doesn't+really+matter"
AND
https://web.archive.org/web/2014022...70/jimmy-jam-prepping-klumps-soundtrack.jhtml

And also LISTEN CLOSELY to Who. In the intro (despite what I've seen on lyric websites), it seems that she is saying "I love this big, fat man"! Lyrics sites say, "I love this big Bruh-man", but I'm pretty sure I'm hearing otherwise (I'll listen to it again). And the overall theme of the lyrics is similar to "Doesn't Really Matter" and "Feels So Right". "Who" is clearly the third song Jimmy was referring to.

As for those other titles you mentioned, I'm sure I've heard some of them before, but I can't recall where. I try to base all of my info on the most reliable sources and not just fan assumptions. I only speculate every once in a while, where there is no info available. For example, the Discipline sessions still stump me because they were rather short and it's hard to figure out which producers she worked with first and last.

But yeah, I think I heard of "You Oughta Be With Me" and "Hungry For Your Love" on some old website, forgot which one. "Beat Crazy" sounds familiar too. Can you please link me to your sources for "You Oughta Be With Me" and "Hungry For Your Love"? I don't recall Jimmy Jam citing the song. Also, can you provide your sources for the Johnny Gill and Young MC collabs? I didn't know about Johnny being on the song, but it makes sense since he appeared on Escapade and The Skin Game. It was probably from the early Rhythm Nation sessions if that info is correct. What is your source for the recording date of "Beat Crazy"?
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The titles of "Hungry For Your Love" and "Beat Crazy" came from Jimmy Jam's Twitter, way back in 2022-23. "Oughta Be With Me" unfortunately has no source - though I've noticed a similarly-titled track named "Outa Be With Me" on Korgnex's list that doesn't credit the usual Jam/Lewis pair but does credit O'Bryan Burnette (who was signed to A&M for a short while), but "You've Been On My Mind" is listed on an old Korgnex-written list from 2007, which cites a now-defunct BMI listing that credits Marvin Bruce Young (Young MC's real name) alongside "Let's Wait Awhile" writer Melanie Andrews and a musician named Duane J. Ramos.
 
So if I Was The Loser was to be put out, would everyone prefer it sans vocal processing? Even if that’s not how Michael intended it?
 
AlwaysThere said:
Is there a source for “Edgar Allan Poe” existing?
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Primarily based on press articles from 2000 concerning the making of a film inspired by Edgar Allan Poe.
As for the song, the title appears in the BMI catalog under Walter A. That's the only information we have. There's no proof that MJ sang it.

Edit : Just like with The World Is No Church, we had no confirmation of MJ singing until Korgnex confirmed it.
 
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BlackAnon said:
Looking through some clips, John confirmed You're The One by Jennifer Holliday is a Victory outtake as he said whatever doesn't make the album will be given to other artists

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Can you confirm the source? That would mean there's a solo version by MJ...
 
SeriousFX said:
The titles of "Hungry For Your Love" and "Beat Crazy" came from Jimmy Jam's Twitter, way back in 2022-23. "Oughta Be With Me" unfortunately has no source - though I've noticed a similarly-titled track named "Outa Be With Me" on Korgnex's list that doesn't credit the usual Jam/Lewis pair but does credit O'Bryan Burnette (who was signed to A&M for a short while), but "You've Been On My Mind" is listed on an old Korgnex-written list from 2007, which cites a now-defunct BMI listing that credits Marvin Bruce Young (Young MC's real name) alongside "Let's Wait Awhile" writer Melanie Andrews and a musician named Duane J. Ramos.
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Ok thanks!
Yeah, based on the people involved, "You've Been on My Mind was probably post Control/early Rhythm Nation sessions. I did some research and could only find one guy named Duane Ramos. He's better known by his stage name DaRock, and was a little-known rapper/producer who collaborated with some popular late '90s/'00s artists like Jay-Z. Perhaps they took an older Janet track out of the vaults and reworked it during "All for You" sessions. I also did a quick search on O'Bryan Burnette II, and he apparently signed with A&M following the release of his 1986 album. So, "Oughta Be with Me" was probably "Rhythm Nation" sessions, which makes sense because Janet was shopping around for different producers before finally sticking with Jimmy and Terry in the end.

Edit: Ok, so I just found out that "You've Been On My Mind" is nothing but a 1999 track by DaRock that sampled "Let's Wait Awhile". You can find DaRock on Discogs:

My5qcGVn.jpeg
 
BlackAnon said:
Looking through some clips, John confirmed You're The One by Jennifer Holliday is a Victory outtake as he said whatever doesn't make the album will be given to other artists

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First time hearing this for a while.

The whistle sound right before the first verse (0:15) sounds suspiciously similar to the one in the leaked snippets of Neverland Landing. Maybe @GYWOOM (or whoever else has the the full song) could compare them for us
 
BlackAnon said:
You can add Slave 4 U to the list as well. Pharrell confirmed Janet recorded it but scrapped it. I’m assuming it was for AFY
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Thanks for mentioning that!
So, I used a bunch of vintage sources to compile my list. I bookmarked most of them for future reference. I literally have over a HUNDRED bookmarks on my browser, and about half of them are probably related to research I was doing. I would take a while to go through them all, but I'll list some of the most important ones:

First, World Radio History is PACKED with archives of vintage music trade magazines. Billboard alone was extremely helpful, as they used to have a section dedicated to artists that were currently in the studio. Other helpful magazines were Cash Box, Mix Magazine, R&B Report, Musician Magazine, Record World and EQ Magazine. There are news reports on Stevie Wonder producing The Jackson 5 at Record Plant, the recording of Triumph, Janet recording her first album, Rockwell recording "Somebody's Watching Me", the recording of "We are the World, you name it! I feel that these are EXTREMELY overlooked resources that are very helpful in anyone researching recording session dates.

I also found many newspapers on sites such as Google News Archive, and Newspapers.com. There are many more newspaper websites out there, but many of them require a paid subscription, which is why I haven't looked through many of them. Nevertheless, the ones I found were very helpful. Such as a newspaper from July 25, 1985 (if I remember correctly), which reported that Janet was in the Twin Cities the previous week recording with Jimmy and Terry.

Finally old fan websites are EXTREMELY helpful! Janet had some wonderful fan sites that are sadly defunct now. These sites stay up to date on where Janet was, and what she was doing. That was how I was able to speculate what studios she was in and who she was working with at different times. These sites have mostly been archived in the Wayback Machine. One is called Janet-Xone, another is called Friends of Janet. There was also a great Jackson website from the late '90s early '00s called Planet Jackson that had A LOT of updates on the progress of Michael's Invincible album!

And of course, I watched interviews, listened to podcasts, and watch behind the scenes footage to learn more. You guys should check out these links!
 
JohnC said:
He originally mentioned both of them during the Questlove Supreme podcast.
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I found the podcast where he mentioned "Hungry for Your Love", but I can't find anything for "Beat Crazy". Can anyone find the podcast or the Twitter post where he mentioned it?
Also, does anyone know of a title he or Terry mentioned called "Strength"? I heard it was the working title for "Velvet Rope"
 
JEMFTV said:
This sounds HORRIBLE
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Him singing "I was the loser" sounds soo uncanny to me im not sure why lol. Its not even just cus im used to "i am a loser" it just SOUNDS like a punch in the way he sings on it to me for some reason
 
John Barnes seemed to really like Make or Break. Mentioned they should've finished that one. He also described Buffalo Bill as a "nice R&B song".

It's funny that Barnes seems to like the songs that Bottrell thinks are terrible.
 
I wish the four of them solely had produced an entire album.

On BAD, Q told MJ, "Either Billy goes or I go".
So I was fired.
But MJ, JB, and BB had done our job:
To help Michael find out if he could run the whole show.

Frank De Leo met with me to fire me.
Told me I'd be producing on the next album.
Maybe John didn't get that talk.
 
Fuzball said:
I wish the four of them solely had produced an entire album.

On BAD, Q told MJ, "Either Billy goes or I go".
So I was fired.
But MJ, JB, and BB had done our job:
To help Michael find out if he could run the whole show.

Frank De Leo met with me to fire me.
Told me I'd be producing on the next album.
Maybe John didn't get that talk.
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Just Good Friends had no business being on BAD. Man In The Mirror was really all Quincy brought to the project.
 
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