The Discussion of MJ's Unreleased Tracks

[Eventidescape1]

I still question why nobody that worked on the project never talks about a more finished version than that demo. Are we 100% sure it was further worked on with Quincy at Westlake?

Depends if the publishing disagreements happened before or during Quincy’s involvement at Westlake. But from the score sheets, it looks like it may not have developed much if it did. Quincy usually did screen a lot of the material beforehand.

If they did, it would have been a quick mock-up (a “Polaroid” as Q liked to call it) and not as fully realised as the demo may be.

 

[innuendo141]

Not sure I agree with that. “Speechless,” “Be Not Always,” “The Girl is Mine,” “D.S.,” “State of Shock,” “The Lost Children,” and plenty of other solo compositions get some degree of criticism within the fan community.

Nothing! But the general response to it when it leaked was, “This is pretty good,” which was incredibly muted given that that track had been hyped for nearly two decades. I feel this will wind up being the same with “Buffalo Bill.”

“Fascinating taste?”

That’s it. On my way to the estate archives to delete every digital copy and burn every physical of “Buffalo Bill.” Everybody say thank you to Mister_Jay_Tee for ruining it.

I have Chicago 1945 in my top unreleased songs TBH. Including songs included as extra or bonus tracks, it would make my top 10. I really like it. Chicago 1945, Throwin' Your Life Away and Remember What I Told You are the only songs leaked in recent years that I would actually say are worthy of a "Main MJ Playlist" for me.

 

[threepea11]

Could have but I don't think he did

He recorded Dirty Diana in 1983 and 1984 and its apparently the same as the final version but with scratch vocals (most of the lyrics are the final ones) and Michael imitating the ending guitar solo

 

[threepea11]

Depends if the publishing disagreements happened before or during Quincy’s involvement at Westlake. But from the score sheets, it looks like it may not have developed much if it did. Quincy usually did screen a lot of the material beforehand.

If they did, it would have been a quick mock-up (a “Polaroid” as Q liked to call it) and not as fully realised as the demo may be.

pretty sure it was developed pretty far, most of the personnel on the phillinganes version are basically the exact same people Michael worked with

 

[Eventidescape1]

Plenty of times he didn't have a beat in mind and worked through other people's ideas. Off the Wall and Thriller are filled with it. A lot of grooves for Bad were created by Bill at Hayvenhurst, and you can literally hear MJ directing Bryan to just play chords to make something up for Don't Believe It. He still did the Billie Jean process during those eras yeah, but it's not like he didn't for Invincible. The abomination known as The Lost Children was made that way.

To clarify, Michael realised his ideas through other people - musicians and programmers alike, including Bill and John. Hooks, melodies, ideas, individual parts, grooves etc. And they help flesh them out in the studio as Michael told them.
Other times, people (namely Bryan) brought an idea or groove to Michael and see if he liked it. Or even developed songs like on Invincible.

 

[threepea11]

I have Chicago 1945 in my top unreleased songs TBH. Including songs included as extra or bonus tracks, it would make my top 10. I really like it. Chicago 1945, Throwin' Your Life Away and Remember What I Told You are the only songs leaked in recent years that I would actually say are worthy of a "Main MJ Playlist" for me.

TYLA is imo, instrumentally unfinished. Needs more percussion or snare, maybe guitar. The 2010 version tries to do that but it does too much imo

 

[Eventidescape1]

pretty sure it was developed pretty far, most of the personnel on the phillinganes version are basically the exact same people Michael worked with

A lot of them were simply top-list session musicians in LA at the time that played on many more iconic records other than Thriller, like Greg himself. Like Michael McDonald, Toto and so forth.

That alone may not fully justify the existence of a more developed version though, if Michael did one that Greg re-used for whatever reason. Nor did they do it in the same studio.

Any other evidence of such a version? Other than the score sheets that mark BTM as not used.

 

[threepea11]

Any other evidence of such a version? Other than the score sheets that mark BTM as not used.

iirc I found a source literally 2 days ago, but I cant seem to find it rn (I'm on my School Chromebook lol). Maybe someone like @SeriousFX might know

 

[SeriousFX]

A lot of them were simply top-list session musicians in LA at the time that played on many more iconic records other than Thriller, like Greg himself. Like Michael McDonald, Toto and so forth.

That alone may not fully justify the existence of a more developed version though, if Michael did one that Greg re-used for whatever reason. Nor did they do it in the same studio.

Any other evidence of such a version? Other than the score sheets that mark BTM as not used.

Carousel, Nite Line, and She's Trouble are also marked as "Not Used" and yet they ended up being recorded at Westlake. It's just as likely that a demo with the same quality could exist.

 

[BlackAnon]

He recorded Dirty Diana in 1983 and 1984 and its apparently the same as the final version but with scratch vocals (most of the lyrics are the final ones) and Michael imitating the ending guitar solo

yeah but I still don’t think he submitted it for Victory as most of the material is registered around the time of release