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The Discussion of MJ's Unreleased Tracks

Sisoqqq said:
Guys why men in black and tomboy are mysterious songs we don't have confirmation if they have verses or no.many of them we knows about .but those no
Click to expand...
The seminar recording of “Man In Black” that leaked about two years ago is likely the most complete version of the track. Although Bryan Loren claims to have a more complete version, there’s little evidence that it actually exists- there’s no copyright registration and no one else has ever confirmed it’s existence. My best guess is (and this is pure speculation) is that the more complete version possibly has more vocals or instrumentation by Loren, but I would highly doubt that there are any more unheard MJ vocals to this song. Remember, this song was dropped early on in the Dangerous sessions, so it doesn’t make sense for a fully polished, finished version to exist.

There are conflicting accounts on “Tomboy”. The version that Damien Shields heard has no vocals, however, John Barnes has said before that this song is “95% complete” with mostly full vocals. This information coupled with the fact that “Stop That” by Zapp (which is rumored to be a more developed version of “Tomboy”) has adlibs by MJ buried in the track indicates that this might be a nearly finished outtake in a releasable state.
 
Hollywood_Tonight said:
The seminar recording of “Man In Black” that leaked about two years ago is likely the most complete version of the track. Although Bryan Loren claims to have a more complete version, there’s little evidence that it actually exists- there’s no copyright registration and no one else has ever confirmed it’s existence. My best guess is (and this is pure speculation) is that the more complete version possibly has more vocals or instrumentation by Loren, but I would highly doubt that there are any more unheard MJ vocals to this song. Remember, this song was dropped early on in the Dangerous sessions, so it doesn’t make sense for a fully polished, finished version to exist.

There are conflicting accounts on “Tomboy”. The version that Damien Shields heard has no vocals, however, John Barnes has said before that this song is “95% complete” with mostly full vocals. This information coupled with the fact that “Stop That” by Zapp (which is rumored to be a more developed version of “Tomboy”) has adlibs by MJ buried in the track indicates that this might be a nearly finished outtake in a releasable state.
Click to expand...

Thanks for clearfy my friend
 
It seems that Tomboy, Buffalo Bill, and What You Do To Me are all releasable and close to complete. Not sure why we haven't been able to hear them yet. BAD40?
 
Information and transcription from the MJCast with CJ DeVillar on the real Monster song from 1999:

Monster – The MJCast

www.themjcast.com www.themjcast.com

MJCast: I want to ask a little bit about a song that you worked on that's quite mysterious still in the Michael Jackson fan world, and the song is "Monster".

DeVillar: Yes, yes.

MJCast: There's still a lot of misinformation out there about it, and that kind of thing. I'd love for
you to take us through the journey of "Monster" and what you did on it, and Michael's vision for
it.

DeVillar: When I got to it, it was pretty involved. It was already over a hundred tracks, and I was
at Record One, and we recorded vocals on it. So I made a work reel. So basically, we were in
the room that had--I don't know, it had like 102 input SSL, and we needed that actually. I had
two Sony machines that were full, so that was 96 tracks. So the orchestra--there was an
orchestra laid out, huge amount of percussion, there was flies buzzing, there was--it was very
experimental, it sounded like a very personal Michael Jackson song to me, very personal. And it--I would say, and I use this analogy often, but it's not exactly inaccurate, but it's very much--I kinda took it like--kinda one of his Sgt. Pepper songs. That he went kind of art instead of trying to hit us over the pop noggin, like he's great at doing. He reached down into some kind of a different place for this song. I guess more challenging to listen to would be the best way to put it.
So it was very interesting. So I had to take all those tracks, I did a mix, he was coming into the studio occasionally, but then I had a long two-day period where I didn't see him, and I was at Record One, so I mixed up, for as long as I could, and then made a work reel, which means I took those 96 tracks and I got a third Sony machine, locked all three up, and I put eight tracks down to the work track. So I had two tracks of drums on it, two tracks of effect, two tracks of keyboards, two tracks of percussion. And then that released 40 channels. So then that was our vocal reel. So after I made that, Michael would come into the studio and would sing on "Monster". I guess "Monster"'s the name of it.

MJCast: Yeah, yeah.

DeVillar: The hook I recorded, he sang "You created a monster", was the hook that he sang.

MJCast: That's right, yeah.

DeVillar: So maybe that's the title. Maybe it was just "Monster".

MJCast: On that note, I've heard this song before; I don't know what sort of state of completion I've heard it in, but the accounts are right. It sounds, instrumentally, probably, in my opinion, the most complex Michael instrumental I've ever heard. There is so much going on, it's incredible.
But the vocal I've heard--the version I've heard--there is only the hook you described in the
chorus. There's no other vocal. Did you record any other Michael vocal for that song?

DeVillar:... Now, I definitely recall the hook, 'cause you get a huge stack. We did a lot of stacks.
Then we did--yeah, we--I remember filling a lot of stuff. Now, we did a lot of experimented
vocals, he may have sung some verses. I don't know if they were experimental to him. I don't
know--let me put it this way... I recall almost filling that reel, 40 tracks. Now, was it with verses and a bridge? I don't know. Maybe had some skeletal ideas of that, but I know we practically
filled it... I actually had a problem. He's so fast that he remembers where he is in tracks and
stuff, and he wants to go back and he wants to record an idea, and then he wants to go to this
section of tape and record an idea, and then he wants to go here. Now, we're on tape, so this is
when I made the money. I was paid right, you know? Because what made that difficult is that we weren't in Pro Tools, so you can't see the audio about to come up. You don't get to see audio, it's only tape and needles bouncing. So he would ask me, "Oh, there's a section of tape here, I want to record something". Well, right after that, is the bridge. So I have to be careful to take it out of record when he sings on a section that has something after it. So the vocal session was--after about a week--was getting complicated. There [were] parts flying around all over this reel, including the hook that you mentioned, and I remember he was singing something, and I can see a note I wrote, 'cause I was furiously writing notes, 'cause I couldn't keep up with Michael.
It's like--I also had to keep him from making a mistake... It's part of my job, too, is to help him
not screw up, you know? So he was singing, and we were coming up to a part that I was about
to record over. So I was, like, I was--had a catch-22. I had to drop out. So I had to drop out in
the middle of a vocal. And so I dropped out, and he goes, "What are you doing?" And I'm like,
"Oh my God, Michael Jackson's yelling at me, first of all" [laughs] And I'm going, "Michael,
Michael. The beatbox was right on that--it was right after". He goes, "[sigh of relief] Ohh, thanks for dropping me out". I was like, "Oh my gosh". I was like, "Dude", you know? And so, by that story alone, that meant we were cramming the tape. So, I have to say, there was a lot of stuff. In the rough mix you heard--I mean, maybe the vocal session I had with him--it's hard to say, I did that in '99.

MJCast: Did Michael ever talk to you about the song "Monster" and his vision for it, and where
he wanted it to go?

DeVillar: No. No, he did--he liked my mix a lot. He liked it so much that he made me put it to a
half-inch analog machine, which I thought was kinda funny. He just loved it in his headphones
so much. I had two days to work on it, so I wanted to give him a mix in his headphones to sing against, that he would enjoy, so I really made something that'd be fun to sing against, and, evidently, he responded to it. So he liked it enough to print it, so maybe that's what people are hearing. And I may have done it with just the hook in it, I don't know. 'Cause I did some rough
mix versions for him, so he could take it home and maybe sing in the car, or whatever, so
Michael probably had 30 versions of it.
 
Great info i see there is many unreleased tracks can brings Michael back to top charts like Monster and get your weight
 
SmoothMel7 said:
Information and transcription from the MJCast with CJ DeVillar on the real Monster song from 1999:

Monster – The MJCast

www.themjcast.com www.themjcast.com

MJCast: I want to ask a little bit about a song that you worked on that's quite mysterious still in the Michael Jackson fan world, and the song is "Monster".

DeVillar: Yes, yes.

MJCast: There's still a lot of misinformation out there about it, and that kind of thing. I'd love for
you to take us through the journey of "Monster" and what you did on it, and Michael's vision for
it.

DeVillar: When I got to it, it was pretty involved. It was already over a hundred tracks, and I was
at Record One, and we recorded vocals on it. So I made a work reel. So basically, we were in
the room that had--I don't know, it had like 102 input SSL, and we needed that actually. I had
two Sony machines that were full, so that was 96 tracks. So the orchestra--there was an
orchestra laid out, huge amount of percussion, there was flies buzzing, there was--it was very
experimental, it sounded like a very personal Michael Jackson song to me, very personal. And it--I would say, and I use this analogy often, but it's not exactly inaccurate, but it's very much--I kinda took it like--kinda one of his Sgt. Pepper songs. That he went kind of art instead of trying to hit us over the pop noggin, like he's great at doing. He reached down into some kind of a different place for this song. I guess more challenging to listen to would be the best way to put it.
So it was very interesting. So I had to take all those tracks, I did a mix, he was coming into the studio occasionally, but then I had a long two-day period where I didn't see him, and I was at Record One, so I mixed up, for as long as I could, and then made a work reel, which means I took those 96 tracks and I got a third Sony machine, locked all three up, and I put eight tracks down to the work track. So I had two tracks of drums on it, two tracks of effect, two tracks of keyboards, two tracks of percussion. And then that released 40 channels. So then that was our vocal reel. So after I made that, Michael would come into the studio and would sing on "Monster". I guess "Monster"'s the name of it.

MJCast: Yeah, yeah.

DeVillar: The hook I recorded, he sang "You created a monster", was the hook that he sang.

MJCast: That's right, yeah.

DeVillar: So maybe that's the title. Maybe it was just "Monster".

MJCast: On that note, I've heard this song before; I don't know what sort of state of completion I've heard it in, but the accounts are right. It sounds, instrumentally, probably, in my opinion, the most complex Michael instrumental I've ever heard. There is so much going on, it's incredible.
But the vocal I've heard--the version I've heard--there is only the hook you described in the
chorus. There's no other vocal. Did you record any other Michael vocal for that song?

DeVillar:... Now, I definitely recall the hook, 'cause you get a huge stack. We did a lot of stacks.
Then we did--yeah, we--I remember filling a lot of stuff. Now, we did a lot of experimented
vocals, he may have sung some verses. I don't know if they were experimental to him. I don't
know--let me put it this way... I recall almost filling that reel, 40 tracks. Now, was it with verses and a bridge? I don't know. Maybe had some skeletal ideas of that, but I know we practically
filled it... I actually had a problem. He's so fast that he remembers where he is in tracks and
stuff, and he wants to go back and he wants to record an idea, and then he wants to go to this
section of tape and record an idea, and then he wants to go here. Now, we're on tape, so this is
when I made the money. I was paid right, you know? Because what made that difficult is that we weren't in Pro Tools, so you can't see the audio about to come up. You don't get to see audio, it's only tape and needles bouncing. So he would ask me, "Oh, there's a section of tape here, I want to record something". Well, right after that, is the bridge. So I have to be careful to take it out of record when he sings on a section that has something after it. So the vocal session was--after about a week--was getting complicated. There [were] parts flying around all over this reel, including the hook that you mentioned, and I remember he was singing something, and I can see a note I wrote, 'cause I was furiously writing notes, 'cause I couldn't keep up with Michael.
It's like--I also had to keep him from making a mistake... It's part of my job, too, is to help him
not screw up, you know? So he was singing, and we were coming up to a part that I was about
to record over. So I was, like, I was--had a catch-22. I had to drop out. So I had to drop out in
the middle of a vocal. And so I dropped out, and he goes, "What are you doing?" And I'm like,
"Oh my God, Michael Jackson's yelling at me, first of all" [laughs] And I'm going, "Michael,
Michael. The beatbox was right on that--it was right after". He goes, "[sigh of relief] Ohh, thanks for dropping me out". I was like, "Oh my gosh". I was like, "Dude", you know? And so, by that story alone, that meant we were cramming the tape. So, I have to say, there was a lot of stuff. In the rough mix you heard--I mean, maybe the vocal session I had with him--it's hard to say, I did that in '99.

MJCast: Did Michael ever talk to you about the song "Monster" and his vision for it, and where
he wanted it to go?

DeVillar: No. No, he did--he liked my mix a lot. He liked it so much that he made me put it to a
half-inch analog machine, which I thought was kinda funny. He just loved it in his headphones
so much. I had two days to work on it, so I wanted to give him a mix in his headphones to sing against, that he would enjoy, so I really made something that'd be fun to sing against, and, evidently, he responded to it. So he liked it enough to print it, so maybe that's what people are hearing. And I may have done it with just the hook in it, I don't know. 'Cause I did some rough
mix versions for him, so he could take it home and maybe sing in the car, or whatever, so
Michael probably had 30 versions of it.
Click to expand...
It means that monster have more vocals so
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
Well hey, if all that's left in the vault is songs as complete as In the Back, I'll take that.
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NetflexKing said:
Just Wow! This actually tells us a lot. The Copyright Office might not have the final versions of some songs, and the existence of scratch vocals on "Instrumental Tracks" might be viable. Now I really want to hear "Monster".
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Khaled said:
Great info i see there is many unreleased tracks can brings Michael back to top charts like Monster and get your weight
Click to expand...
Even instrumental, this song has a lot of praise. It should have appeared on the "Scream" compilation, to give at least a little interest to this album for us fans.

SmoothCriminal1995 said:
I'm shocked at how much information we have about unreleased material now, compared to say 5 years ago.
Click to expand...

I have been doing a lot of research for several years. Almost everything can be found on the internet. Or by asking the right questions to the right people, and getting lucky. Where I got a ton of insight was when I asked Damien Shields on Twitter last year. It was very rewarding.
 
Derek1984 said:
I was planning on taking a trip to Washington DC at some point but it seems like a lot of the stuff in there, isn't necessarily the most updated state of a song. Still considering it, but have to temper expectations if I did follow through.
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The Estate is already struggling to publish good, unreleased and complete songs. I don't think we'll hear songs like Rocker and Boy No unfortunately...
 
SmoothMel7 said:
The Estate is already struggling to publish good, unreleased and complete songs. I don't think we'll hear songs like Rocker and Boy No unfortunately...
Click to expand...
But boy no and rocker seems to be like days in glousterchire
 
SmoothMel7 said:
The Estate is already struggling to publish good, unreleased and complete songs. I don't think we'll hear songs like Rocker and Boy No unfortunately...
Click to expand...
I think the collectors will eventually get those songs (if they haven't already), that's our only chance. Unless Lord Jackson beats the Final Boss by stealing Branca's Laptop lol.
 
SmoothMel7 said:
Information and transcription from the MJCast with CJ DeVillar on the real Monster song from 1999:

Monster – The MJCast

www.themjcast.com www.themjcast.com

MJCast: I want to ask a little bit about a song that you worked on that's quite mysterious still in the Michael Jackson fan world, and the song is "Monster".

DeVillar: Yes, yes.

MJCast: There's still a lot of misinformation out there about it, and that kind of thing. I'd love for
you to take us through the journey of "Monster" and what you did on it, and Michael's vision for
it.

DeVillar: When I got to it, it was pretty involved. It was already over a hundred tracks, and I was
at Record One, and we recorded vocals on it. So I made a work reel. So basically, we were in
the room that had--I don't know, it had like 102 input SSL, and we needed that actually. I had
two Sony machines that were full, so that was 96 tracks. So the orchestra--there was an
orchestra laid out, huge amount of percussion, there was flies buzzing, there was--it was very
experimental, it sounded like a very personal Michael Jackson song to me, very personal. And it--I would say, and I use this analogy often, but it's not exactly inaccurate, but it's very much--I kinda took it like--kinda one of his Sgt. Pepper songs. That he went kind of art instead of trying to hit us over the pop noggin, like he's great at doing. He reached down into some kind of a different place for this song. I guess more challenging to listen to would be the best way to put it.
So it was very interesting. So I had to take all those tracks, I did a mix, he was coming into the studio occasionally, but then I had a long two-day period where I didn't see him, and I was at Record One, so I mixed up, for as long as I could, and then made a work reel, which means I took those 96 tracks and I got a third Sony machine, locked all three up, and I put eight tracks down to the work track. So I had two tracks of drums on it, two tracks of effect, two tracks of keyboards, two tracks of percussion. And then that released 40 channels. So then that was our vocal reel. So after I made that, Michael would come into the studio and would sing on "Monster". I guess "Monster"'s the name of it.

MJCast: Yeah, yeah.

DeVillar: The hook I recorded, he sang "You created a monster", was the hook that he sang.

MJCast: That's right, yeah.

DeVillar: So maybe that's the title. Maybe it was just "Monster".

MJCast: On that note, I've heard this song before; I don't know what sort of state of completion I've heard it in, but the accounts are right. It sounds, instrumentally, probably, in my opinion, the most complex Michael instrumental I've ever heard. There is so much going on, it's incredible.
But the vocal I've heard--the version I've heard--there is only the hook you described in the
chorus. There's no other vocal. Did you record any other Michael vocal for that song?

DeVillar:... Now, I definitely recall the hook, 'cause you get a huge stack. We did a lot of stacks.
Then we did--yeah, we--I remember filling a lot of stuff. Now, we did a lot of experimented
vocals, he may have sung some verses. I don't know if they were experimental to him. I don't
know--let me put it this way... I recall almost filling that reel, 40 tracks. Now, was it with verses and a bridge? I don't know. Maybe had some skeletal ideas of that, but I know we practically
filled it... I actually had a problem. He's so fast that he remembers where he is in tracks and
stuff, and he wants to go back and he wants to record an idea, and then he wants to go to this
section of tape and record an idea, and then he wants to go here. Now, we're on tape, so this is
when I made the money. I was paid right, you know? Because what made that difficult is that we weren't in Pro Tools, so you can't see the audio about to come up. You don't get to see audio, it's only tape and needles bouncing. So he would ask me, "Oh, there's a section of tape here, I want to record something". Well, right after that, is the bridge. So I have to be careful to take it out of record when he sings on a section that has something after it. So the vocal session was--after about a week--was getting complicated. There [were] parts flying around all over this reel, including the hook that you mentioned, and I remember he was singing something, and I can see a note I wrote, 'cause I was furiously writing notes, 'cause I couldn't keep up with Michael.
It's like--I also had to keep him from making a mistake... It's part of my job, too, is to help him
not screw up, you know? So he was singing, and we were coming up to a part that I was about
to record over. So I was, like, I was--had a catch-22. I had to drop out. So I had to drop out in
the middle of a vocal. And so I dropped out, and he goes, "What are you doing?" And I'm like,
"Oh my God, Michael Jackson's yelling at me, first of all" [laughs] And I'm going, "Michael,
Michael. The beatbox was right on that--it was right after". He goes, "[sigh of relief] Ohh, thanks for dropping me out". I was like, "Oh my gosh". I was like, "Dude", you know? And so, by that story alone, that meant we were cramming the tape. So, I have to say, there was a lot of stuff. In the rough mix you heard--I mean, maybe the vocal session I had with him--it's hard to say, I did that in '99.

MJCast: Did Michael ever talk to you about the song "Monster" and his vision for it, and where
he wanted it to go?

DeVillar: No. No, he did--he liked my mix a lot. He liked it so much that he made me put it to a
half-inch analog machine, which I thought was kinda funny. He just loved it in his headphones
so much. I had two days to work on it, so I wanted to give him a mix in his headphones to sing against, that he would enjoy, so I really made something that'd be fun to sing against, and, evidently, he responded to it. So he liked it enough to print it, so maybe that's what people are hearing. And I may have done it with just the hook in it, I don't know. 'Cause I did some rough
mix versions for him, so he could take it home and maybe sing in the car, or whatever, so
Michael probably had 30 versions of it.
Click to expand...
Considering how much effort was put into creating that song (over 100 tracks? Goddamn!), and how Michael seemed to adore it, I seriously doubt that Michael only took his time to record his vocals for the choruses.
 
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