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The Discussion of MJ's Unreleased Tracks

Fuzball said:
Any info on John Barnes playing keys/synth on NL, too?
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All that’s known in terms of collaborators is that Buz Kohan is playing grand piano and there’s a live string section. John’s involvement is definitely possible since the song was recorded between 1983-84, but it’s all just guesses.
 
BLACK&WHITE : It's known that Michael writes a lot of songs every time when he works on an album.For the BAD album he had 80, and for DANGEROUS 60 songs.

Bruce Swedien : True that. Michael always brings new songs to the studio. For HISTORY he wrote 30-ish songs.

BLACK&WHITE : What is happening with the songs, which won't be included?

Bruce Swedien : They are going in the "safe"...

BLACK&WHITE : So, there is a "safe" somewhere, which contains hundreds of songs never heard before?

Bruce Swedien : We have a small one here in New York, but in LA is the vault with all of the Michael titles. What we have in stock is recorded and kept in a computer and there are a hundred songs, or even more than a thousand. Michael writes non-stop, all the time he has ideas for songs.There are hundreds of tapes Michael has something recorded on in our archives. From the small micro tape where is just a melody to the tape on which is the song ready to be released. Most of all there are only demos.

BLACK&WHITE : And what is going on with all of those songs?

Bruce Swedien : They are waiting their turn. One day they will be re worked or left just as they are.
 
Fuzball said:
BLACK&WHITE : So, there is a "safe" somewhere, which contains hundreds of songs never heard before?

Bruce Swedien : We have a small one here in New York, but in LA is the vault with all of the Michael titles. What we have in stock is recorded and kept in a computer and there are a hundred songs, or even more than a thousand. Michael writes non-stop, all the time he has ideas for songs.There are hundreds of tapes Michael has something recorded on in our archives. From the small micro tape where is just a melody to the tape on which is the song ready to be released. Most of all there are only demos.

BLACK&WHITE : And what is going on with all of those songs?

Bruce Swedien : They are waiting their turn. One day they will be re worked or left just as they are.
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so I believe the Estate inherited that vault when he died, right?
 
Fuzball said:
Bill Bottrell on Buffalo Bill:

No B.B. during Dangerous.
It was worked on very early in Hayvenhurst sessions.
Maybe even earlier. Victory perhaps
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Right... John Barnes already said that Buffalo Bill was first worked on at Sound castle studios and was the first song they worked on together.. So 1983, before Victory. And they did most of it in 6 hours. This was all said on the MJCast interview.

Very odd that in 1983, MJ thought it was going to be a hit, and then never got released on any album at all.
 
Derek1984 said:
Right... John Barnes already said that Buffalo Bill was first worked on at Sound castle studios and was the first song they worked on together.. So 1983, before Victory. And they did most of it in 6 hours. This was all said on the MJCast interview.

Very odd that in 1983, MJ thought it was going to be a hit, and then never got released on any album at all.
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"I write all the time. I have so many songs and another song will come along and beat it out; not that those aren't good enough to release because I am going to do those in the future, but it's just I get more excited about the next one and then the next one" - Michael 1984

This explains it. He probably got side tracked with another song [Liberian Girl] he thought was better and never got around to finishing BB
 
Derek1984 said:
Right... John Barnes already said that Buffalo Bill was first worked on at Sound castle studios and was the first song they worked on together.. So 1983, before Victory.
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This raises the question, where did Bruce Swedien hear Buffalo Bill, if it was never an option for Bad or Dangerous?

Regarding Victory sessions, Bruce wasn't present at Soundcastle. He mixed SoS at Westlake. Bruce also had recorded (and mixed) two MJ songs for Victory at Image Recorders with assistant engineer John van Nest - Be Not Always and an "unknown" song. Was that "unknown" track perhaps BB?
 
Fuzball said:
This raises the question, where did Bruce Swedien hear Buffalo Bill, if it was never an option for Bad or Dangerous?

Regarding Victory sessions, Bruce wasn't present at Soundcastle. He mixed SoS at Westlake. Bruce also had recorded (and mixed) two MJ songs for Victory at Image Recorders with assistant engineer John van Nest - Be Not Always and an "unknown" song. Was that "unknown" track perhaps BB?
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And if the Jacksons also recorded background vocals on Buffalo Bill, I wonder if Buffalo Bill was a last second decision not to include on Victory.
 
Derek1984 said:
And if the Jacksons also recorded background vocals on Buffalo Bill, I wonder if Buffalo Bill was a last second decision not to include on Victory.
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Judging by Frank Dileo's statement to RollingStone in Feb'84 I'd say it's possible. When exactly did Jermaine join the brothers on Victory? I wonder if he's contributed BV to BB.
 
Fuzball said:
Judging by Frank Dileo's statement to RollingStone in Feb'84 I'd say it's possible. When exactly did Jermaine join the brothers on Victory? I wonder if he's contributed BV to BB.
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I would think by the time the Jacksons recorded background vocals to BB, Jermaine would've already been with them.
 
Fuzball said:
This raises the question, where did Bruce Swedien hear Buffalo Bill, if it was never an option for Bad or Dangerous?

Regarding Victory sessions, Bruce wasn't present at Soundcastle. He mixed SoS at Westlake. Bruce also had recorded (and mixed) two MJ songs for Victory at Image Recorders with assistant engineer John van Nest - Be Not Always and an "unknown" song. Was that "unknown" track perhaps BB?
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We know Bruce has heard Buffalo Bill by a quote he said about the song. So my guess is this was the other unknown track. Given that Bruce has heard this, he probably did mix it. BB must be very close to being complete.

I wonder if the Jackson brothers providing background vocals on this track is why it hasn't been released yet by the estate. Or, it's a song that might be harder to remix?
 
Fuzball said:
Bruce Swedien : We have a small one here in New York, but in LA is the vault with all of the Michael titles. What we have in stock is recorded and kept in a computer and there are a hundred songs, or even more than a thousand. Michael writes non-stop, all the time he has ideas for songs.There are hundreds of tapes Michael has something recorded on in our archives. From the small micro tape where is just a melody to the tape on which is the song ready to be released. Most of all there are only demos.
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please inform the Estate immediately
they can use any help
 
Fuzball said:
This raises the question, where did Bruce Swedien hear Buffalo Bill, if it was never an option for Bad or Dangerous?

Regarding Victory sessions, Bruce wasn't present at Soundcastle. He mixed SoS at Westlake. Bruce also had recorded (and mixed) two MJ songs for Victory at Image Recorders with assistant engineer John van Nest - Be Not Always and an "unknown" song. Was that "unknown" track perhaps BB?
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John said BB and Liberian were set aside for Bad. Maybe Michael played it during the early pre-production of Bad…..roughly 1985

Fuzball said:
Judging by Frank Dileo's statement to RollingStone in Feb'84 I'd say it's possible. When exactly did Jermaine join the brothers on Victory? I wonder if he's contributed BV to BB.
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Remember Victory’s original release date was mid 1983. Jermaine was on board by then

Derek1984 said:
We know Bruce has heard Buffalo Bill by a quote he said about the song. So my guess is this was the other unknown track. Given that Bruce has heard this, he probably did mix it. BB must be very close to being complete.

I wonder if the Jackson brothers providing background vocals on this track is why it hasn't been released yet by the estate. Or, it's a song that might be harder to remix?
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John said it’s not complete and Michael only sang the chorus. Also said it’s possible there’s a guide vocal on the original master but he wasn’t sure
 
Fuzball said:
Bill Bottrell on Buffalo Bill:

No B.B. during Dangerous.
It was worked on very early in Hayvenhurst sessions.
Maybe even earlier. Victory perhaps
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I worked on B.B. early during Hayvenhurst. It was a Matt Forger basic track.
Stop reading estate carelessness.
They get stuff from old track sheets or tape boxes, and never consult the actual people who were there.
 
Fuzball said:
I worked on B.B. early during Hayvenhurst. It was a Matt Forger basic track.
Stop reading estate carelessness.
They get stuff from old track sheets or tape boxes, and never consult the actual people who were there.
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So I assume Bill & Matt produced BB in Hayvenhurst?
 
Bill again:

I don't know for sure. I hear "Cheater" for the first time a month ago. I heard Greg. I remember one song done at Soundcastle with Greg and MJ. I remember John McClain there, I remember doing claps in my usual way.
I can hear my console, my studio, my mixing style in '85.
I can hear all that in the recording of Cheater.
I have no other song to place in those sessions.
I could be wrong.
But credits on unreleased songs are notoriously wrong also.
 
In terms of unreleased tracks recorded during the Invincible session, I would say that at this point we have almost heard them all? At least the ones with vocals.

The only ones missing are:
1. Hot Fun In The Summertime
2. Monster (apparently with few vocals)

Anyway, it's crazy how much better those Invincible outtakes are compared to most of the album tracks.
 
Saka21 said:
In terms of unreleased tracks recorded during the Invincible session, I would say that at this point we have almost heard them all? At least the ones with vocals.

The only ones missing are:
1. Hot Fun In The Summertime
2. Monster (apparently with few vocals)

Anyway, it's crazy how much better those Invincible outtakes are compared to most of the album tracks.
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There's a cover of Jay-Z's Girls, Girls, Girls in the vault, and apparently there's a song from the producer of Don't Walk Away called Just A Lover In My Life that MJ recorded vocals for, but it was never mixed in the song itself.
bricenajar.com

Richard Stites - BRICE NAJAR

Michael Jackson Teddy Riley Invincible Richard Stites Don't Walk Away Sony Music
bricenajar.com
www.businessinsider.com

Jay-Z's former producer says Michael Jackson recorded a version of 'Girls, Girls, Girls' but it went missing for 20 years

Just Blaze said he found the recordings while searching his computer two years ago. He previously thought the collaboration was "an urban legend."
www.businessinsider.com www.businessinsider.com

But yeah as far as it goes we pretty much milked that era dry, most of what was releasable already leaked or was officially released. I don't doubt that there's gonna be some songs that we never heard of given the insane amount of producers MJ was working with at that time.
 
Saka21 said:
In terms of unreleased tracks recorded during the Invincible session, I would say that at this point we have almost heard them all? At least the ones with vocals.

The only ones missing are:
1. Hot Fun In The Summertime
2. Monster (apparently with few vocals)

Anyway, it's crazy how much better those Invincible outtakes are compared to most of the album tracks.
Click to expand...
As far as material we’ve been able to definitively pin down to the Invincible sessions, yeah. But there’s still a handful of demos we haven’t been able to identify a recording date for (“Boy No” and “Don’t Make Me Stay”). Plus, while Damien Shields listed off plenty of instrumentals he’d heard, it’s been demonstrated that the US Copyright registrations don’t always hold the most up-to-date versions of those songs, so it’s possible that updated/later mixes with vocals exist.

I wish someone was able to sit down with Buxer and MP, go through their hard drives, and just confirm/deny everything.
 
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