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The Discussion of MJ's Unreleased Tracks

robotchicken14 said:
I feel sorry for Bryan Loren.
The guy spent nearly two years thinking he was the replacement for Quincy Jones, only to end up with nothing on the album.

I know it’s still up in the air whether he left on his own accord or was dismissed by Michael, but as someone who prefers Serious Effect to a lot of what ended up on Dangerous, I can’t help but feel he was a bit hard done by. Nevertheless, asking for money directly from fans is perhaps not the best way around the situation
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I feel like I'd be okay with the Loren stuff being contemporized....
 
Imho they should've at least brought back Man in Black for the movie, polished up the instrumental, let Will Smith rap the verses and have MJ on the hook, basically like Beanos mix. It's a cool idea and would have been a much better collab than whatever MJs cameo in MIB 2 was lol.

 
Fuzball said:
A sign it'll leak soon, I guess.
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Assuming Chamber’s remake is 90% accurate, there’s nothing special about the song. In fact, the remake is so good that I don’t think we need the song to be leaked anymore. The same thing happened with the song “World of Candy.”
 
SmoothGangsta said:
I enjoy Bryan's work with MJ quite a bit tbh.

MJ made the correct decision going with Teddy, though. Ended up being a much stronger album, also Bryan's behaviour over the years has made him seem very unlikeable to me.
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As compared to Teddy who has a flawless track record.

Literally who in MJ’s career isn’t slightly Koo-Koo? Rodney Jerkins actually. He’s chill. Jam and Lewis also. And good ol’ Bruce. Bills alright too.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
As compared to Teddy who has a flawless track record.

Literally who in MJ’s career isn’t slightly Koo-Koo? Rodney Jerkins actually. He’s chill. Jam and Lewis also. And good ol’ Bruce. Bills alright too.
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I didn't say anything about Teddy being great, just that MJ made the correct decision lol.
 
robotchicken14 said:
I feel sorry for Bryan Loren.
The guy spent nearly two years thinking he was the replacement for Quincy Jones, only to end up with nothing on the album.

I know it’s still up in the air whether he left on his own accord or was dismissed by Michael, but as someone who prefers Serious Effect to a lot of what ended up on Dangerous, I can’t help but feel he was a bit hard done by. Nevertheless, asking for money directly from fans is perhaps not the best way around the situation
Click to expand...
It’s not the same but he still ended up with royalties from songs, Superfly Sister and Do The Bartman.

Plus he got an MJ collab on his own album.


Idk, it wasn’t a horrible deal I feel like.
 
robotchicken14 said:
I feel sorry for Bryan Loren.
The guy spent nearly two years thinking he was the replacement for Quincy Jones, only to end up with nothing on the album.

I know it’s still up in the air whether he left on his own accord or was dismissed by Michael, but as someone who prefers Serious Effect to a lot of what ended up on Dangerous, I can’t help but feel he was a bit hard done by. Nevertheless, asking for money directly from fans is perhaps not the best way around the situation
Click to expand...
It's not up in the air. He's been very clear he walked out because he was angry his songs kept dropping off the list. He clarified that Michael invited him to work on the chosen tracks with Teddy, such as Jam, but he refused. From there, he said Michael would call him up to work on stuff and he reluctantly agreed while becoming increasingly upset it didn't go anywhere. Bryan mainly wanted to work with just Michael and seemed to imply Teddy was a plagiarizing punk at the 2016 Paris seminar. It's at that seminar he talked about Garbage being the basis for Can't Let Her Get Away, that Teddy lifted the rift/melody. That was actually our first exposure to the song existing. Nobody was sure if he was telling the truth until last year, but he clearly was. Similarly, at the seminar he claimed Man in Black has additional lead vocals he turned off, though fans with DATs in this thread claim he's lying and it's scratch vox of himself.

Bryan was also very bitter about the techniques used to formulate the sound on Michael's post-BAD albums. He agreed with a fan that the way Michael layered background vocals is his signature that was never credited, that Teddy's New Jack style was nothing new because of his work with Shanice and Vesta Williams, and that most of the rifts/melodies are lifted from grooves he did. There's some evidence for this, like with Verdict and Garbage, but it seems largely exaggerated. He claims he wrote the Black or White rap and did the drums, but never provided any evidence for those claims like he did with Do the Bartman. The Simpsons team had actually asked Michael to write the song for them, but he gave the opportunity to Bryan because Michael was a nice guy.

As Dangerous was coming to completion, Bryan's Arista deadline was also on the horizon. He approached Michael about To Satisfy You, how he said he'd do some numbers for his album. I believe they did 2-3 songs with Bryan on lead for the album and he picked one for the feature. Michael did it because of all the hard work Bryan had put into Decade/Dangerous... that and he also agreed to doing it a year or two prior when Music From the New World was initially greenlit by Sony.

I believe, if I recall correctly, Bryan officially left the Dangerous project just a couple months before the album was finished up. He got more and more pissed off seeing his tracks fall off the configuration, and his reasoning was: what are the executives going to think of him after multiple years and no progress? Michael did in fact realize that, hence trying to get Bryan in on the final tracks for the album, but he only had his ego to blame for that one. What's actually unclear about this situation is if Michael realized Bryan was super upset, because you know, men are terrible at communicating and expressing their feelings. I can personally attest to Bryan being very bad at this, as he blew up on me in DMs once for saying one of his new singles sounded very 90s (he did reflect on this... while making excuses to be fair, and later apologized, but it left a nasty taste in my mouth after all the promotional work I did for him). When Michael reached out again in 1993, we cannot readily discern whether or not it was because he simply liked Bryan and assumed he was still just a friend/collaborator, or if there was an element of feeling bad about Bryan's position (which again may not have been communicated whatsoever). Bryan was STILL producing demos at that point, as Dream Girl and others would evidence. This era was only very briefly mentioned at the Paris seminar and skipped over to talk about how he was invited to New York to work on HIStory (he claimed he sang background on Money for example). He said the fact he was willing to do that showed he was not truly bitter, but more so disappointed and upset about the situation. People have pointed out though, regardless of whether he was bitter, his career at that point seemed very much Michael dependent, as he was still paid for all the studio time, and a job is a job even if his failure with Michael earlier potentially ruined future prospects. There seemed to be some evidence in the early 00s that Bryan's camp leaked some of the tracks from the special edition of Dangerous out of spite when the project fell through, but I can't be certain about those whispers.

Someone here also commented he told a fan he briefly worked on demos for Invincible. It's possible given that he was involved in BOTDF, but for the most part he faded out and got strapped for cash. This resulted in him selling the rights to Do the Bartman for about $40,000. Then he vanished, until popping up to write that letter begging for money saying he'll release the master sessions to some songs. When his singles failed, he disappeared again.
 
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Mister_Jay_Tee said:
It’s not the same but he still ended up with royalties from songs, Superfly Sister and Do The Bartman.
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True, but even here Bryan said most of the royalties for Do The Bartman went to John Boylan, who produced the rest of The Simpsons Sing the Blues album, because David Geffen wouldn't release it as a single in the US. It's as though even his victories are defeats lol
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
Plus he got an MJ collab on his own album.
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Yeah but the album was only released in Japan so it doesn't really matter if MJ was on it, it still bombed

MissAshley said:
It's not up in the air. He's been very clear he walked out because he was angry his songs kept dropping off the list.
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Yeah that's what he's said, and it's likely the truth, but I remember reading that Michael didn't like Bryan speaking to a music magazine about the work he was doing on Dangerous, leading his songs slowly making their way out of the tracklist. It may be conjecture, but it's not out of character for MJ to distance himself from someone for spoiling the 'mystery' or 'magic' of his work
 
arisenow said:
I already answered this.

The Discussion of MJ's Unreleased Tracks

Early Jan '26 LEAKS FULL TRACKS / DATs / SESSION VERSIONS Neverland Landing — 1983 (original); reworked 2000s — Credits: Michael Jackson & Buz Kohan (orig); later work with Brad Buxer. Source: leaked session tape; version appears tied to early Bad sessions (c. 1986). Throwin' Your Life Away —...
www.mjjcommunity.com www.mjjcommunity.com
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Sorry but I can't find he part where you mention this..?
 
MissAshley said:
It's not up in the air. He's been very clear he walked out because he was angry his songs kept dropping off the list. He clarified that Michael invited him to work on the chosen tracks with Teddy, such as Jam, but he refused. From there, he said Michael would call him up to work on stuff and he reluctantly agreed while becoming increasingly upset it didn't go anywhere. Bryan mainly wanted to work with just Michael and seemed to imply Teddy was a plagiarizing punk at the 2016 Paris seminar. It's at that seminar he talked about Garbage being the basis for Can't Let Her Get Away, that Teddy lifted the rift/melody. That was actually our first exposure to the song existing. Nobody was sure if he was telling the truth until last year, but he clearly was. Similarly, at the seminar he claimed Man in Black has additional lead vocals he turned off, though fans with DATs in this thread claim he's lying and it's scratch vox of himself.

Bryan was also very bitter about the techniques used to formulate the sound on Michael's post-BAD albums. He agreed with a fan that the way Michael layered background vocals is his signature that was never credited, that Teddy's New Jack style was nothing new because of his work with Shanice and Vesta Williams, and that most of the rifts/melodies are lifted from grooves he did. There's some evidence for this, like with Verdict and Garbage, but it seems largely exaggerated. He claims he wrote the Black or White rap and did the drums, but never provided any evidence for those claims like he did with Do the Bartman. The Simpsons team had actually asked Michael to write the song for them, but he gave the opportunity to Bryan because Michael was a nice guy.

As Dangerous was coming to completion, Bryan's Arista deadline was also on the horizon. He approached Michael about To Satisfy You, how he said he'd do some numbers for his album. I believe they did 2-3 songs with Bryan on lead for the album and he picked one for the feature. Michael did it because of all the hard work Bryan had put into Decade/Dangerous... that and he also agreed to doing it a year or two prior when Music From the New World was initially greenlit by Sony.

I believe, if I recall correctly, Bryan officially left the Dangerous project just a couple months before the album was finished up. He got more and more pissed off seeing his tracks fall off the configuration, and his reasoning was: what are the executives going to think of him after multiple years and no progress? Michael did in fact realize that, hence trying to get Bryan in on the final tracks for the album, but he only had his ego to blame for that one. What's actually unclear about this situation is if Michael realized Bryan was super upset, because you know, men are terrible at communicating and expressing their feelings. I can personally attest to Bryan being very bad at this, as he blew up on me in DMs once for saying one of his new singles sounded very 90s (he did reflect on this... while making excuses to be fair, and later apologized, but it left a nasty taste in my mouth after all the promotional work I did for him). When Michael reached out again in 1993, we cannot readily discern whether or not it was because he simply liked Bryan and assumed he was still just a friend/collaborator, or if there was an element of feeling bad about Bryan's position (which again may not have been communicated whatsoever). Bryan was STILL producing demos at that point, as Dream Girl and others would evidence. This era was only very briefly mentioned at the Paris seminar and skipped over to talk about how he was invited to New York to work on HIStory (he claimed he sang background on Money for example). He said the fact he was willing to do that showed he was not truly bitter, but more so disappointed and upset about the situation. People have pointed out though, regardless of whether he was bitter, his career at that point seemed very much Michael dependent, as he was still paid for all the studio time, and a job is a job even if his failure with Michael earlier potentially ruined future prospects. There seemed to be some evidence in the early 00s that Bryan's camp leaked some of the tracks from the special edition of Dangerous out of spite when the project fell through, but I can't be certain about those whispers.

Someone here also commented he told a fan he briefly worked on demos for Invincible. It's possible given that he was involved in BOTDF, but for the most part he faded out and got strapped for cash. This resulted in him selling the rights to Do the Bartman for about $40,000. Then he vanished, until popping up to write that letter begging for money saying he'll release the master sessions to some songs. When his singles failed, he disappeared again.
Click to expand...

As you seem knowledgeable, do we have any information as to who came up with the melodies/lyrics for the MJ/Loren tracks? Was it a case, like with Darkchild, of MJ being presented with beats+a guide vocal and only redoing the lead, or did Loren provide MJ with beats only, leaving MJ to come up with the melodies?
 
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