Latest on MJJC

The Discussion of MJ's Unreleased Tracks

I think if anything now we should start considering why certain songs (Sunset Driver, We’ve Had Enough) get near entire vocal takes while certain songs (Water, Don’t Be Messin’ Round) never do.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
I think if anything now we should start considering why certain songs (Sunset Driver, We’ve Had Enough) get near entire vocal takes while certain songs (Water, Don’t Be Messin’ Round) never do.
Click to expand...
do we know dont be messin round doesnt? i dont like the song so ive never really looked into it, but michael seemed obsessed with it
 
MsAshley said:
do we know dont be messin round doesnt? i dont like the song so ive never really looked into it, but michael seemed obsessed with it
Click to expand...
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
I think if anything now we should start considering why certain songs (Sunset Driver, We’ve Had Enough) get near entire vocal takes while certain songs (Water, Don’t Be Messin’ Round) never do.
Click to expand...
I mean the 1986 vocal track sounds great. He re-recorded it during the Dangerous sessions but the vocal track sounds more work in progress and it has additional lyrics. During and after Invincible, Michael always first wanted to finish the song entirely before recording the vocals. When he worked on previous demos, he just kept a previously recorded vocal take as reference, when the track was finished, then he wanted to record vocal tracks.
 
mjfp said:
I mean the 1986 vocal track sounds great. He re-recorded it during the Dangerous sessions but the vocal track sounds more work in progress and it has additional lyrics. During and after Invincible, Michael always first wanted to finish the song entirely before recording the vocals. When he worked on previous demos, he just kept a previously recorded vocal take as reference, when the track was finished, then he wanted to record vocal tracks.
Click to expand...
I mean there’s a general process but on an individual case by case, there’s still a lot of nuance. Slave to the Rhythm got recorded multiple times but ultimately got left off, Xscape was essentially fully finished but leaked before it was put out, Hold My Hand was a work in progress. Each song has its own unique work in progress narrative.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
I mean there’s a general process but on an individual case by case, there’s still a lot of nuance. Slave to the Rhythm got recorded multiple times but ultimately got left off, Xscape was essentially fully finished but leaked before it was put out, Hold My Hand was a work in progress. Each song has its own unique work in progress narrative.
Click to expand...
I was mainly talking about the 2000s versions of DBMR. Michael often recorded multiple vocal takes, even before the main vocal sessions happened. Slave To The Rhythm‘s vocal take is still a demo take and isn‘t the one that would‘ve been on the album in 91, but it would‘ve been re-recorded entirely. Xscape was finished in 2001 for Invincible but left off. Hold My Hand was actually mainly just a vocal session, Akon‘s original demo is practically the same.

From Bad to HIStory, the recording process was nearly always, vocal and instrumental demo -> instrumental -> vocal sessions -> mixing -> master. But for Heal The World for example, Michael felt something was missing during mixing, so additional Toms were recorded and overdubbed onto the mix.

After the many leaks in the 2000s, he backed off of recording lead vocals till the track was finished entirely.
 
mjfp said:
I was mainly talking about the 2000s versions of DBMR.
Click to expand...
So the song was reworked multiple times throughout the decade? Do you know the differences between each versions and to what project they were intended to specifically? Was it for "Invincible", "The Ultimate Collection", "Thriller 25", or the 11th album?
 
mjfp said:
I was mainly talking about the 2000s versions of DBMR. Michael often recorded multiple vocal takes, even before the main vocal sessions happened. Slave To The Rhythm‘s vocal take is still a demo take and isn‘t the one that would‘ve been on the album in 91, but it would‘ve been re-recorded entirely. Xscape was finished in 2001 for Invincible but left off. Hold My Hand was actually mainly just a vocal session, Akon‘s original demo is practically the same.

From Bad to HIStory, the recording process was nearly always, vocal and instrumental demo -> instrumental -> vocal sessions -> mixing -> master. But for Heal The World for example, Michael felt something was missing during mixing, so additional Toms were recorded and overdubbed onto the mix.

After the many leaks in the 2000s, he backed off of recording lead vocals till the track was finished entirely.
Click to expand...
Can you elaborate on how all 28 vocal takes for STTR are demo takes? Particularly the parts we have actually heard. It has full lyrics, full harmonies, adlibs, no mumble.
 
JamesCMJJ said:
take into account that Bruce has heard versions of the track that we haven't
Click to expand...

Yes that's what I meant I guess: if there are more finished versions (or even a finished version) why didn't they release one of those?
Couldn't they find it?
 
Victorious said:
Yes that's what I meant I guess: if there are more finished versions (or even a finished version) why didn't they release one of those?
Couldn't they find it?
Click to expand...

Matt Forger: “It was decided that anything that was going to be included in the release and presented to the public had to be exactly at that stage of production that existed in 1987. No additional recording, no additional elements… I was very happy to hear that the direction was ‘we can only use the elements that were recorded up to 1987. It must be the work of this period’.” [...] Forger also confirms that other versions of the song were done later that were more refined than the earlier recordings. Don’t Be Messin’ ‘Round, an unfinished song that is now presented to the public as is and on purpose, shows Jackson’s spontaneity at his best.
 
Clay7 said:
Can you elaborate on how all 28 vocal takes for STTR are demo takes? Particularly the parts we have actually heard. It has full lyrics, full harmonies, adlibs, no mumble.
Click to expand...
He would've definitely re-recorded the entire song. Complete lyrics, vocals, harmonies, ad-libs etc doesn't mean those would've been final, there are multiple demos that sound vocally entirely finished. Those takes would maybe be among the ones used for the final vocal comp, but Michael would've recorded many more takes for this song after the song was in his eyes (or ears) complete.
 
Fuzball said:
Matt Forger: “It was decided that anything that was going to be included in the release and presented to the public had to be exactly at that stage of production that existed in 1987. No additional recording, no additional elements… I was very happy to hear that the direction was ‘we can only use the elements that were recorded up to 1987. It must be the work of this period’.” [...] Forger also confirms that other versions of the song were done later that were more refined than the earlier recordings. Don’t Be Messin’ ‘Round, an unfinished song that is now presented to the public as is and on purpose, shows Jackson’s spontaneity at his best.
Click to expand...
Thank you, I never heard of this. Interesting and respectable approach (although I'm still eager to hear more :))
 
mjfp said:
He would've definitely re-recorded the entire song. Complete lyrics, vocals, harmonies, ad-libs etc doesn't mean those would've been final, there are multiple demos that sound vocally entirely finished. Those takes would maybe be among the ones used for the final vocal comp, but Michael would've recorded many more takes for this song after the song was in his eyes (or ears) complete.
Click to expand...
Ohhhh you're just making an assumption sorry loll the way it was worded I read it as you making a definitive statement that MJ would have re-recorded it which would be impossible to know unless there happened to be a note he wrote or something verbatim saying that he needed to do more takes.
 
Clay7 said:
Ohhhh you're just making an assumption sorry loll the way it was worded I read it as you making a definitive statement that MJ would have re-recorded it which would be impossible to know unless there happened to be a note he wrote or something verbatim saying that he needed to do more takes.
Click to expand...
Yeah, like he used the original take of Black or White did he not. It was never set in stone how he handled a song approach.
 
mjfp said:
He would've definitely re-recorded the entire song. Complete lyrics, vocals, harmonies, ad-libs etc doesn't mean those would've been final, there are multiple demos that sound vocally entirely finished. Those takes would maybe be among the ones used for the final vocal comp, but Michael would've recorded many more takes for this song after the song was in his eyes (or ears) complete.
Click to expand...
Have you seen track sheets or any notes that would indicate a desire for additional vocal takes?
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
Somebody tell me the story of how Black or White came to be
Click to expand...
TECHNICALLY there is at least one other take where he mumbles some of the unwritten lyrics (which I believe a seminar recording is available online). The bridge also wasn’t added until sometime in 1990, if I’m not mistaken. But I still think you’re right in theory, because the final album vocal is mostly comprised from what was originally thought to be a scratch take.
 
mjfp said:
He would've definitely re-recorded the entire song. Complete lyrics, vocals, harmonies, ad-libs etc doesn't mean those would've been final, there are multiple demos that sound vocally entirely finished. Those takes would maybe be among the ones used for the final vocal comp, but Michael would've recorded many more takes for this song after the song was in his eyes (or ears) complete.
Click to expand...
Yes, but all we have is the vocal we hear on the Xscape version and the original version. That is as complete as you will get of a vocal take that we will hear.

There may be a more complete version that the estate may not be letting everyone in on (like with Blue Gangsta for instance, that final version leaked before the release of Xscape). That applies for any vault song. But we have what we have, and maybe that is really all that Michael recorded vocally for the song.

You would need to have the privilege to access the vault tapes and track sheets to determine if more vocal takes exist that were done after the original 28 or so passes were compiled.
Michael would never do 28 or so lead vocal passes unless it was destined by him as a finished song.

If he did more vocal takes, they would have re-compiled the lead vocal take with those new takes and made a mix of it anyway.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top