The Discussion of MJ's Unreleased Tracks

[Mister_Jay_Tee]

It sounds like a real Akon song to me and the two other snippets on the channel (Everyone Wants to Be a Movie Star and the demo of D.S.) sound quite real too. Everyone Wants to Be a Movie Star sounds like it could have been produced by Red One. Here it is slightly enhanced: Everyone Wants to Be a Movie Star

If they're fakes (who knows these days?) they're really fun songs regardless! I wouldn't be surprised if Stay was one of the few songs Akon wrote for/with MJ. It really does sound like it could be.

Cool find!

I always thought Everybody Wants to Be a Movie Star was gonna be a broadway tune.

 

[Soldier of Love]

Cheater from earlier sessions at Soundcastle. Al Capone? Not impossible, Michael and John had worked on it two month later at Criteria. Probably on SC, too.

When did the Cheater sessions at SoundCastle take place? When did the Al Capone sessions at Criteria take place?

 

[Fuzball]

When did the Cheater sessions at SoundCastle take place?

Idk. Bill hasn't shared his session notes for Victory yet.

When did the Al Capone sessions at Criteria take place?

Late October/early November

 

[threepea11]

With the Linn 9000 appearing on it, I'd say more 1985/86... The Ultimate Collection lists Hayvenhurst as the studio instead, though, and Matt Forger co-engineered it. Bill joined the Bad project in October 1985 so that could have been the earliest it was recorded. Though a demo may exist from an earlier time at Soundcastle.

Considering that its a finished song, the latter is probably the case. Streetwalker had a demo(s), Loving You seemingly did, Crack Kills did, Tomboy supposedly did. All those are finished songs with finished vocals

 

[Soldier of Love]

Idk. Bill hasn't shared his session notes for Victory yet.


Late October/early November

I assume you're referring to the year 1984. Has Bill Bottrell shared any calendars from 1984? Where did the Late October/early November dates come from?

 

[arisenow]

It's so absurd that we haven't had a single Buffalo Bill snippet yet. Surely someone must have that song, right?

You'd be dissapointed. But I've said that before.

It sounds like a real Akon song to me and the two other snippets on the channel (Everyone Wants to Be a Movie Star and the demo of D.S.) sound quite real too. Everyone Wants to Be a Movie Star sounds like it could have been produced by Red One. Here it is slightly enhanced: Everyone Wants to Be a Movie Star

All of them are AI. The early version of D.S. is a rough vocal take.

 

[threepea11]

I don't know for sure. I hear "Cheater" for the first time a month ago. I heard Greg. I remember one song done at Soundcastle with Greg and MJ. I remember John McClain there, I remember doing claps in my usual way.
I can hear my console, my studio, my mixing style in '85.
I can hear all that in the recording of Cheater.
I have no other song to place in those sessions.
I could be wrong.
But credits on unreleased songs are notoriously wrong also.

I heard Cheater again yesterday. Credits and dates on various sites do not match what I was thinking.
Sites say outtake from Westake/Quincy sessions for Bad.
I can not hear that. At all.
Somebody should reach out to Greg

'85 is what I'm thinking. Soundcastle. Michael, Greg, I hear Paul Jackson Jr. on guitar, I hear my console and the glass entry room on "cheater" BG vocals and claps, I hear my mix.

What I'm thinking is, Cheater was recorded in 1985 at Soundcastle and further worked on at Hayvenhurst. Compared to other unreleased finished songs from the Bad sessions (from what we've heard anyway), Cheater is the most refined. We're REALLY lucky that it was released. I wonder why Michael wanted to work on it in 2009 if it was already released

 

[threepea11]

It's so absurd that we haven't had a single Buffalo Bill snippet yet. Surely someone must have that song, right?

Im not surprised. Considering how hyped and widely its talked about, the tracks is definitely worth A LOT in private circles. Leaking a snippet would tank its worth, even if the song turns out to be overhyped

 

[lotfi]

Why no one talk about crack kills

 

[threepea11]

Why no one talk about crack kills

Not much to talk about. We know Michael fully recorded it in Nov 1986 so its probably in a similar finished state to songs like PoF. I've heard that someone has it, but that's about it. Lyrics of the chorus(?) leaked in like 2004 via an auction

 

[Soldier of Love]

Caribou ranch was great. More will come on this as well. We went there for 3-4 days. David Williams came as well. The ranch was great but unfortunately the studio burned down shortly afterwards. - John Barnes

By the way, those Denver newspapers give a pretty clear timeline of his stay in Denver:

According to this paper you posted, their first Denver concert was the previous night (Sept. 7th), so this paper was published on Sept. 8th. It states that Michael had been in Denver since the previous Sunday, which would be Sept. 2nd (actually the night of the Philadelphia concert).

He went to the Sheplers Western Wear on Monday night (Sept. 3rd) to buy the cowboy clothes. He visited the Ramses II exhibit at the Denver Museum of Natural History on Tuesday (Sept. 4th). He had may have initially checked into the Embassy Suites Hotel, but later reports stated that he was at the Fairmount Hotel during the brothers' concerts. Michael wandered off on Wednesday (Sept. 5th) around 9PM (probably for some photoshoots).

The two concerts were held on Sept. 7th & 8th, but the concert scheduled for the 9th was cancelled. The Jacksons held a party at the Fairmount Hotel on that day instead. While it was reported that Michael and his brothers were leaving Denver the following Sunday (Sept. 9), Michael was actually going to Caribou Ranch.

He arrived at the ranch on Monday Sept. 10th and checked into the Park Suite Hotel. He was originally going to commute between a Denver hotel and the ranch, but he loved the ranch so much that he ended up staying there for 5 days. On Tuesday (Sept. 11th), the ranch manager Sandy Tomes, his daughter Margo Preston, and ranch owner James William Guercio's daughter, Katy Guercio took Michael horseback riding. He also spent Tuesday Sept. 11th and Wednesday Sept. 12th in the recording studio working on song ideas (but not complete songs). Michael left the ranch on Friday Sept. 14 for the Montreal concert in Canada.

So, any recording that Michael did at Caribou Ranch can be narrowed down to September 11-12, 1984.

LINKS:
The Rocky Mountain News (Daily) - Sept. 10, 1984
The Rocky Mountain News (Daily) - Sept. 15, 1984
The Mountain-Ear - Sept. 21, 1984

 

[Fuzball]

So, any recording that Michael did at Caribou Ranch can be narrowed down to September 11-12, 1984.

John Barnes and David Williams I guess.

Sandy Tolmes at the Cariboue Ranch said Jackson spent Tuesday and Wednesday at the recording studio and ranch. “No, no he wasn't doing any real recording,” she said. “Just relaxing and trying new ideas. He had a couple of his own musicians and they were trying things out.”

 

[michaeljackson.nl]

he was already shooting the cover of the single there

 

[Derek1984]

I mean how can this song not be good?!?

 

[MsAshley]

michael was so cool

 

[Alec]

I always thought Everybody Wants to Be a Movie Star was gonna be a broadway tune.

Interesting! Considering they likely share themes, I always imagined it as similar to “Hollywood Tonight”—maybe in the same way “Ghosts” and “Is It Scary” are similar, to the point that they partially share lyrics. It doesn’t seem like he was writing anything particularly Broadway-style toward the end of his life, but then again, what do we really know? Not that much!

 

[Soldier of Love]

Where did you find out about the session dates for Al Capone at Criteria Studios in October/November 1984? Did Bill Bottrell or John Barnes share any details on the song?

 

[Soldier of Love]

Late October/early November

Where did you find out about the session dates for Al Capone at Criteria Studios in October/November 1984? Did Bill Bottrell or John Barnes share any details on the song?

Edit: I accidentally posted the same question twice. My bad.

 

[BlackAnon]

From the pictures and Bottrells calendar, these are from either November 85 or February 86 since Barnes mentioned Roger contributing to Al Capone and Tomboy but Barnes also mentioned Al Capone was mostly done when Roger came in so the version we have could very well be an 84 vocal take minus Rogers contribution(s)

 

[Fuzball]

Where did you find out about the session dates for Al Capone at Criteria Studios in October/November 1984? Did Bill Bottrell or John Barnes share any details on the song?

Larry Janus (engineer who's worked then at Criteria) had shared his memories on MJ's session.

 

[Strangerintheworld]

All of them are AI. The early version of D.S. is a rough vocal take.

And is this one real?

 

[MsAshley]

loving you is so addicting. it has this cloudy sort of vibe, but with rainbows. it vaguely reminds me of mario party lol i wish more of the worktape stuff would drop, its actually my favorite song on xscape by far

 

[Soldier of Love]

From the pictures and Bottrells calendar, these are from either November 85 or February 86 since Barnes mentioned Roger contributing to Al Capone and Tomboy but Barnes also mentioned Al Capone was mostly done when Roger came in so the version we have could very well be an 84 vocal take minus Rogers contribution(s)

That's the same jacket that Michael wore on the video he taped with La Toya endorsing her for the Yamaha Music Festival on October 27, 1985. So, maybe these photos are from November 1985.

 

[Derek1984]

That's the same jacket that Michael wore on the video he taped with La Toya endorsing her for the Yamaha Music Festival on October 27, 1985. So, maybe these photos are from November 1985.

I was going to post the same thing. Good catch. Watching that video, I can't help but think MJ was annoyed because he had to leave the studio while working on Tomboy with Troutman to do this video for LaToya. At least that's what I want to believe lol

 

[Clay7]

And is this one real?

no

 

[Tatami]

This is what The Ultimate Collection credits say, for what it's worth.

Here's an HQ scan, simply because my OCD wouldn't let me rest lol.

 

[Pentum]

You'd be dissapointed. But I've said that before.

All of them are AI. The early version of D.S. is a rough vocal take.

How are you so sure Stay is AI?