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The main reason most people don't like Invincible album is Rodney Jerkins?

Richard76

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Recently I started to discover, that lots of fans don't like Rodney Jerkins' songs on Invincible album. They consider his songs as weakest in Michael's discography. Well, there is only one Jerkins' song fans has accepted. That's You Rock My World. And you know, when I read this weird opinion, there appears only one question in my head: are you okay? I mean, Rodney Jerkins literally put direction for this album. All songs, best soaked by Invincible vibe made by Jerkins. Unbreakable, Heartbreaker, Invincible - main trinity, which shows us true sound nature of Invincible album. And these tracks made by Rodney. I watched an interview with Jerkins long time ago. And he revealed, how he and MJ had been creating Invincible album. Once they were in a studio, MJ said him, that he was tired of cliched music samples and that he wanted to create something new. So, he said Jerkins go to junk yard and find some garbage to create new sounds. Jerkins was struck. He had no choice, but go and do what MJ said him to do. Also, there was a story, when Jerkins accidentaly dropped a box with some kind of trash or rocks from stairs, and it was occasionally recorded in the studio. When MJ listened this sample, he said "Perfect". These is actually the reason, why we can hear some kind of rocks and diamonds on songs like Invincible and Threatened. While Teddy Riley have been creating something tender and pop, Rodney tried to make sometihng dancing and extraordinary. I like songs from both producers. I'm just trying to say, that if you don't like Jerkins's work on Invincible album, then you don't like most part of Invincible album. Because as I stated before, RJ created main vibe for Invincible album (with the help of Michael, of course);)
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The best content on Invincible is from Rodney Jerkins, but it's not his best. Xscape and We've Had Enough are missing.
Jerkins was aware of that I guess. He said:
"I really want people to hear some of the stuff we did together which never made the cut," he said. "There's a whole lot of stuff, just as good, maybe better. People have gotta hear it... Michael records hundreds of songs for an album, so we cut it down to thirty-five of the best tracks, and picked from there. It's not always about picking the hottest tracks, it's gotta have a flow, so there's a good album's worth of material that could blow your mind."
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Michael Jackson - Invincible / Michael Jackson Music database

Michael Jackson discography. Here you can find lyrics and information on Michael Jackson - Invincible. Rate and vote for your favorite tracks. Share your opinion with other members..
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The first three songs ruin the album. Rodney Jerkins was the first producer who really failed Michael. Those three songs don't groove, they don't funk. Lyrically, they are extremely stale. Theres no real emotion in them, apart from parts of unbreakable. MJ could write better songs in his sleep. Compare the first three songs of Invincible, versus HIStory, where you had Scream, they Don't care about Us, and Stranger in Moscow, all classic, MJ tracks. Theres no comparison. Its not a good start to an album, when you have three of the weakest songs of your career. LaShawn Daniels, and Rodney Jerkins writing team created a substandard product for MJ. Even Rock my world, the writing is a bit dull. Privacy is amongst the worst of MJ's career. That's another song that doesn't funk. Now, I don't think those songs are horrible by any means, I like them, but they are not MJ level songs. MJ creates masterpiece songs, and especially songs to start an album that make you go "wow", not generic emotionless songs that anyone can make. We've had enough was the Rodney Jerkins collaboration that really should have been on the album. The instrumentation sounds great, lyrically its fresh, etc. But that had a lot to do with MJ and Carol Bayer Sager.
 
Man this dude is obsessed with Invincible!!!!

The reason why it sucks is due to mediocre songs, being overproduced gunk and simply too much bloat! Trim the fat and it may have been good.

Remove Invincible, 2000 watts, you are my life, privacy , cry , the lost children and it would be considered as a good album (not great)
 
BuffaloBill87 said:
Man this dude is obsessed with Invincible!!!!

The reason why it sucks is due to mediocre songs, being overproduced gunk and simply too much bloat! Trim the fat and it may have been good.

Remove Invincible, 2000 watts, you are my life, privacy , cry , the lost children and it would be considered as a good album (not great)
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I think Invincible needed more Jerkins and Riley. Xscape, We've Had Enough, Shout, Get Your Weight Off Of Me, ...
 
This is completely untrue. In my opinion all Jerkins co-written and co-produced songs (except Privacy) are bangers! Privacy is a really bad song. If they replaced Privacy with We've Had Enough or Xscape, then all his contributions would be great. For me 2/3 best tracks on Invincible are Rodney collaborations - You Rock My World and Threatened. Unbreakable and Invincible are also great songs. Heartbreaker is not great, but not bad either, album filler track.

For me Teddy Riley was completely unnecessary on this album. He joined production very late in the process (2001) and contributed very little. Although Heaven Can Wait and Whatever Happens are among better tracks on the album, he also brought 2000 Watts and Don't Walk Away that are both very bad songs and along with Privacy shouldn't be on this album.
 
OnirMJ said:
For me Teddy Riley was completely unnecessary on this album. He joined production very late in the process (2001) and contributed very little. Although Heaven Can Wait and Whatever Happens are among better tracks on the album, he also brought 2000 Watts and Don't Walk Away that are both very bad songs and along with Privacy shouldn't be on this album.
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2000 Watts was a breath of fresh air in a dusty room of ballads.
 
There are many main reasons as to why most people do not like the 'Invincible' album.

For example:

There are many external/outside songwriters and producers that make Michael Jackson look like a guest artist on his own album.

The production of the album feels rather cheap and generic.

The album lacks a clear direction (musically, sonically, and thematically).

The vocal style of the uptempo songs does not really fit Michael Jackson (such as, the robotic vocal style of the 'Privacy' song).

On many uptempo songs (of that album) Michael Jackson sounds husky, hoarse, and strained.

The album is saddled with many boring, unexciting and easily forgettable ballads.

The artwork of the album is a downgrade compared to his previous studio albums.

One can even say that Brandy's 'Full Moon' album (which is the female counterpart of the 'Invincible' album) is a better album.
 
OnirMJ said:
This is completely untrue. In my opinion all Jerkins co-written and co-produced songs (except Privacy) are bangers! Privacy is a really bad song. If they replaced Privacy with We've Had Enough or Xscape, then all his contributions would be great. For me 2/3 best tracks on Invincible are Rodney collaborations - You Rock My World and Threatened. Unbreakable and Invincible are also great songs. Heartbreaker is not great, but not bad either, album filler track.

For me Teddy Riley was completely unnecessary on this album. He joined production very late in the process (2001) and contributed very little. Although Heaven Can Wait and Whatever Happens are among better tracks on the album, he also brought 2000 Watts and Don't Walk Away that are both very bad songs and along with Privacy shouldn't be on this album.
Click to expand...
BuffaloBill87 said:
Man this dude is obsessed with Invincible!!!!

The reason why it sucks is due to mediocre songs, being overproduced gunk and simply too much bloat! Trim the fat and it may have been good.

Remove Invincible, 2000 watts, you are my life, privacy , cry , the lost children and it would be considered as a good album (not great)
Click to expand...
mack77 said:
The first three songs ruin the album. Rodney Jerkins was the first producer who really failed Michael. Those three songs don't groove, they don't funk. Lyrically, they are extremely stale. Theres no real emotion in them, apart from parts of unbreakable. MJ could write better songs in his sleep. Compare the first three songs of Invincible, versus HIStory, where you had Scream, they Don't care about Us, and Stranger in Moscow, all classic, MJ tracks. Theres no comparison. Its not a good start to an album, when you have three of the weakest songs of your career. LaShawn Daniels, and Rodney Jerkins writing team created a substandard product for MJ. Even Rock my world, the writing is a bit dull. Privacy is amongst the worst of MJ's career. That's another song that doesn't funk. Now, I don't think those songs are horrible by any means, I like them, but they are not MJ level songs. MJ creates masterpiece songs, and especially songs to start an album that make you go "wow", not generic emotionless songs that anyone can make. We've had enough was the Rodney Jerkins collaboration that really should have been on the album. The instrumentation sounds great, lyrically its fresh, etc. But that had a lot to do with MJ and Carol Bayer Sager.
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You are damn wrong, my friends! I understand, you don't really like Invincible album. It's ok. That means, this album is not for you. BUT! You must understand. There is only ONE song, that can be considered as bad on Invincible album. The song called 2000 watts. I agree, this song is really secondary. But the rest 15 songs are either good or excellent!
 
mj_frenzy said:
There are many main reasons as to why most people do not like the 'Invincible' album.

For example:

There are many external/outside songwriters and producers that make Michael Jackson look like a guest artist on his own album.
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Same with Dangerous.
mj_frenzy said:
The production of the album feels rather cheap and generic.
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It feels clean and sharp.
mj_frenzy said:
The album lacks a clear direction (musically, sonically, and thematically).
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The direction is called diversity. No one can do that like Michael.
mj_frenzy said:
The album is saddled with many boring, unexciting and easily forgettable ballads.

The artwork of the album was a downgrade compared to his previous studio albums.
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True.
mj_frenzy said:
One can even say that Brandy's 'Full Moon' album (which, in a way, is the female counterpart of the 'Invincible' album) is a better album.
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Full Moon sounds like a very cheap production compared to Invincible.
 
mj_frenzy said:
There are many external/outside songwriters and producers that make Michael Jackson look like a guest artist on his own album. - That's weird reason, MJ always liked to colloborate with other musicians. That's why album eventually turned out to be more colloborative + MJ had kids at that time, so he didn't have much time to work on his music
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mj_frenzy said:
The production of the album feels rather cheap and generic. - It's not cheap. That album costed Sony 30 million dollars! That's the most expensive MJ album!
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mj_frenzy said:
The album lacks a clear direction (musically, sonically, and thematically). - Main music direction was laid by Rodney Jerkins, we can clearly hear it through songs like Unbreakable, Heartbreaker, Invincible and so on. But I agree. There are a few songs, that looks like little bit excess (like Hevean Can Wait), but mostly these songs fit pretty well.
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mj_frenzy said:
The vocal style of the uptempo songs does not really fit Michael Jackson (such as, the robotic vocal style of the 'Privacy song). - That's not true. It was some kind of innovation, experiment. To make MJ sound in new, different way.
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mj_frenzy said:
On many uptempo songs (of that album) Michael Jackson sounds husky, hoarse, and strained. - He often had an ache in throat, often got sick. Also he tried really hard on these songs, because he wanted to make this album as his best.
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mj_frenzy said:
The album is saddled with many boring, unexciting and easily forgettable ballads. - Whatever Happens? Speechless? You Are My Life? Not true again.
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mj_frenzy said:
The artwork of the album was a downgrade compared to his previous studio albums. Artwork was intened to make new image for MJ. I read somewhere, that this cover, meant that MJ become some kind of geek. And new digital era came through Michael's vision
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Richard76 said:
no. YAML has awesome verse) In 2000 watts verse is more boring
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The songstructure of 2000 Watts is innovative. It almost sounds like studiosession.
On the other side there are millions of songs like YAML.
 
Y'all have low expectations.... Compare a smooth criminal or a Stranger in Moscow to 2000 Watts and the difference in quality is absolutely staggering.

2000 Watts is such a poor song along with several other on Invincible. I'm talking the quality of the song.
 
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