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Turnin' Me Off - song discussion

Saka21 said:
"Wasting studio time" isn't a thing , they were experimenting, exploring ideas, that's literally the whole process. So yeah, that part's just not true.

Everything else is fair game though. You can judge a draft even in its early state. It's not a very strong demo, and Mike clearly knew it too. As Bill said, they tried it out, explored the idea, went "nah," and never touched it again. Dropped it very quickly.
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But people writing "tf, is that Michael" or similar like in the comments above, come on...you have to experiment and make a ton of demos to find out what works best and what has hit potential.

They are acting like every idea Michael had was immediately a #1 song and now they hear one demo they don't like and they are shocked. Like wtf...no clue of how (great) music is made.

And in my opinion it's a difference between saying "tf what is this, are you kidding me?!" and "I personally don't like it/ I think the song is not as strong as XY".

Sorry...I am a grown up, I just have to breathe, don't be angry, stay calm, count to 100 ☝️🥲
 
someplace_else said:
They are acting like every idea Michael had was immediately a #1 song and now they hear one demo they don't like and they are shocked. Like wtf...no clue of how (great) music is made.
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Unfortunately there are some fans who think Michael had the Midas touch, and expect everything he ever did to be fantastic. It’s part of the legacy MJ tried to curate in a way - every album track was single-worthy, no B-sides were allowed etc.

So when a strange, experimental thing like Turnin’ Me Off comes around, completely unfinished and sub-par songwriting-wise, it’s nevertheless judged by some people as though it’s a released song.
People have to remember that Michael would be aghast if he knew any scrapped demo/WIP was released to the public, like he was when Hold My Hand leaked
 
I don’t know if it’s real, french youtuber gregpopculture says yes but it’s look like ai
yes it’s like a game track but I personnaly don’t really like the song
 
Michaelounet said:
I don’t know if it’s real, french youtuber gregpopculture says yes but it’s look like ai
yes it’s like a game track but I personnaly don’t really like the song
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Bill Bottrell should be able to verify its authenticity.
 
https://voca.ro/1yAfA5JLqQO0
How has no one mentioned that this part of the chorus has very clearly been put through AI?
Not only it is obvious, but right after this part you can hear the actual/real BGV play for the rest of the chorus.


The leak was tampered (as it is common practice nowadays, it seems.)
 
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Hot_Street said:
TMO is one of his most interesting new songs of recent years, purely from a sound perspective, which is experimental and powerful. The theme, however, seems to me to be a traditional one for MJ, about the Dirty Dianas and Billie Jeans of this world.

I hope someone manages to turn this into a real, catchy MJ song.
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So what is the song/demo about exactly? A woman 'turning him off' because of her attitude/arrogance/vanity..?
 
100 songs could be created for one album and maybe only 20 of those songs are good enough to be released to the public. People assume that every single unreleased song is some kind of hidden treasure but the reality is that most unreleased songs are average at best.

This goes for all artists and not just Michael.
 
NeoGardiV12 said:
https://voca.ro/1yAfA5JLqQO0
How has no one mentioned that this part of the chorus has very clearly been put through AI?
Not only it is obvious, but right after this part you can hear the actual/real BGV play for the rest of the chorus.


The leak was tampered (as it is common practice nowadays, it seems.)
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Tampered, filtered, compressed - all ok.

But AI?
Because one vocal part sounds different than another?
Have you listened to other MJ songs? Where different vocal parts sound different? Because it was intended for them to sound different?

But now of course EVERYTHING is AI..
Here's hoping for more and better quality leaks of TMO in the future, so this nonsense can be proven wrong.
 
MJJuniorSinceMW said:
Tampered, filtered, compressed - all ok.

But AI?
Because one vocal part sounds different than another?
Have you listened to other MJ songs? Where different vocal parts sound different? Because it was intended for them to sound different?

But now of course EVERYTHING is AI..
Here's hoping for more and better quality leaks of TMO in the future, so this nonsense can be proven wrong.
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I'm specifically talking about that part being put through an AI voice model (RVC), which is VERY different from saying it was generated with AI which is what I'm assuming you got out of my message, I don't blame you though, there's a million different AI technologies nowadays so my bad for not specifying what I meant.

I'm gonna make this as explicitly clear as I possibly could:
When an acapella with multiple harmonies in the background (or in simpler terms, Background vocals.) gets processed through an RVC model (an AI Voice Model, you know, the thing that was all the craze before generative AI became a thing) the model messes up it's detection, since there's multiple voices going on at the same time, it tries to imitate the melody of every line in the original acapella at the same time, which it obviously can't.
The most obvious giveaway is the fact that the actual background vocals randomly come in after that part is over
THAT'S what I think is going on with THAT specific part of the song... it's not that impossible or unbelievable, especially because it's been done in the past in the exact same manner. A good example is how before Men In Black leaked completely, snippets were being passed around which were just like I described here, the original song with the acapella being put through AI.
 
Fuzball said:
It's turned out the song's not that awful I thought it'd be when I first heard a snippet some weeks ago. This said, I think TMO has potential to turn into a good song, had it been further worked on and completed by Michael. Some interesting elements & ideas in there.

Of course, the recent leak is just a day mix, kinda a snapshot of a particular moment from the then ongoing sessions - but imo it's enough to see where MJ was heading with this track.

In fact, I can see an updated, more polished version with refined lyrics easily fit on the History album - let's say instead TTA or TJ.


One more thing, is it a 6/8 I hear? Anyone with music knowledge here?
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Yes, the song is at 6/4 time signature and the bridge is 4/4
 
Have listened to it a few times trying to appreciate it a bit more but if I’m being honest - it’s total garbage 😂
 
someplace_else said:
But people writing "tf, is that Michael" or similar like in the comments above, come on...you have to experiment and make a ton of demos to find out what works best and what has hit potential.

They are acting like every idea Michael had was immediately a #1 song and now they hear one demo they don't like and they are shocked. Like wtf...no clue of how (great) music is made.

And in my opinion it's a difference between saying "tf what is this, are you kidding me?!" and "I personally don't like it/ I think the song is not as strong as XY".

Sorry...I am a grown up, I just have to breathe, don't be angry, stay calm, count to 100 ☝️🥲
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These are the same people who think he wrote the stuff on Invincible lol. Most Mj fan communities outside of this one is just an entire collection of @mjfanatic777 and @Hot_Street Literal tweens and streamers.
 
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I'm in my twenties and I've been a Michael Jackson fan since I was 11. It's not a problem that fans of different generations express their admiration for their idol in their own way. If @mjfanatic777 and other "tweens" pay tribute to Michael in their own way, that's fantastic! (Much better than the obsessive haters who spend their time insulting and harassing a deceased star they don't like, if you ask me.) What's the point of judging? That's not what @someplace_else was saying, and I agree with them, by the way. We shouldn't judge Michael Jackson's work too harshly by pretending that their opinion is the absolute and universally accepted truth.
 
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Mister_Jay_Tee said:
These are the same people who think he wrote the stuff on Invincible lol. Most Mj fan communities outside of this one is just an entire collection of @mjfanatic777 and @Hot_Street Literal tweens and streamers.
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I don't want to judge about whole communities, I don't know them. But I know there are many "special" fans. For example the ones that are very harsh about criticizing Michael when he's not as "perfect" as they expect him to be. Always and all the time. But he's a human being *surprise* and they seem to just ignore that completely. Something I will never be able to understand.

We have the opportunity to listen to a cool outtake of his work, so to speak. And I don't get why some people have to criticise it like it was a finished track on an album. You don't have to like it, but...choose your words wisely. How hard can it be 🙈
 
NeoGardiV12 said:
https://voca.ro/1yAfA5JLqQO0
How has no one mentioned that this part of the chorus has very clearly been put through AI?
Not only it is obvious, but right after this part you can hear the actual/real BGV play for the rest of the chorus.


The leak was tampered (as it is common practice nowadays, it seems.)
Click to expand...
@Korgnex Might be able to confirm if it's AI tampered with or not (like in that part for instance). I admit it does sound a bit odd, a very unusual tone on the "off" for Michael
 
someplace_else said:
I don't want to judge about whole communities, I don't know them. But I know there are many "special" fans. For example the ones that are very harsh about criticizing Michael when he's not as "perfect" as they expect him to be. Always and all the time. But he's a human being *surprise* and they seem to just ignore that completely. Something I will never be able to understand.

We have the opportunity to listen to a cool outtake of his work, so to speak. And I don't get why some people have to criticise it like it was a finished track on an album. You don't have to like it, but...choose your words wisely. How hard can it be 🙈
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They’re usually just teenagers. Average Gen Z kids. They don’t get it. They weren’t even around when Mike was alive.
 
I was a teenager, you were a teenager too. Fans who have only known history should say what then? I’m a Y, I don’t really knew J5, OTW and Thriller so I can’t be fan or understand Michael’s career. I'm from Generation Z, I didn't know Michael during his lifetime when I was only three years old when he died but I'm doing my research, I've documented myself, I'm doing my best. I envy those who had the chance to know and meet Michael directly! But I'm a little tired of it when some fans criticize young people because they didn't know Michael and live their passion differently. This is precisely the purpose of the MJFam in fact.
 
It's just stupid to make generalities because it leads to nothing. Many teenagers love and respect MJ and do it in a respectful way and many old fans behave badly.
 
I’m only 26 guys.

I’m only 27 guys….

Anyway, I’m just saying they’ll outgrow the behavior (hopefully), not that they’re Invalid. Don’t stress.
 
NeoGardiV12 said:
I'm specifically talking about that part being put through an AI voice model (RVC), which is VERY different from saying it was generated with AI which is what I'm assuming you got out of my message, I don't blame you though, there's a million different AI technologies nowadays so my bad for not specifying what I meant.

I'm gonna make this as explicitly clear as I possibly could:
When an acapella with multiple harmonies in the background (or in simpler terms, Background vocals.) gets processed through an RVC model (an AI Voice Model, you know, the thing that was all the craze before generative AI became a thing) the model messes up it's detection, since there's multiple voices going on at the same time, it tries to imitate the melody of every line in the original acapella at the same time, which it obviously can't.
The most obvious giveaway is the fact that the actual background vocals randomly come in after that part is over
THAT'S what I think is going on with THAT specific part of the song... it's not that impossible or unbelievable, especially because it's been done in the past in the exact same manner. A good example is how before Men In Black leaked completely, snippets were being passed around which were just like I described here, the original song with the acapella being put through AI.
Click to expand...

Are you talking about the first part of the chorus „turning me off“ vocal?
Because that one sounds so weird. Almost like MJ did pitch it up. And also it sounds like AI artifacts on the „off“. But I could be wrong.
 
kai said:
Are you talking about the first part of the chorus „turning me off“ vocal?
Because that one sounds so weird. Almost like MJ did pitch it up. And also it sounds like AI artifacts on the „off“. But I could be wrong.
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Yep, exactly that part.
It sounds incredibly off to me too, in that "off" part especially.
 
NeoGardiV12 said:
Yep, exactly that part.
It sounds incredibly off to me too, in that "off" part especially.
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I agree. That part is the reason I was questioning the first snippets that appeared. Wouldn’t be surprised if it’s AI but also since it’s a demo MJ could just be off there… but it sounds so much like a bad AI conversion and the off even has these artifacts I always hear on AI stuff. But idk….
 
NeoGardiV12 said:
Yep, exactly that part.
It sounds incredibly off to me too, in that "off" part especially.
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I get the same "ick" from Chicago 1945. That track has editing and pitch correction all over the place and it's such a shame they couldn't leave the original alone. Everything has to be robotic nowadays.
 
Here's an acapella version: https://vocaroo.com/1xXtlDxs33jx
It's kind of weird, at some points the vocals seem to cut out for a short moment. Like at the first part of the line "(unintelligible) from some other planet" ( https://vocaroo.com/1mt8n1ldravF ) or at the first line of the 2nd verse ( https://vocaroo.com/1nKrOP7ZIIHF ). I don't think it's because of the AI I used because it can also be heard in the original leak file. It really seems like it was modified in some way. Like someone already used bad AI separation on the song and remixed it.
 
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