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Turnin' Me Off - song discussion

Michael4MyLife said:
I get the same "ick" from Chicago 1945. That track has editing and pitch correction all over the place and it's such a shame they couldn't leave the original alone. Everything has to be robotic nowadays.
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No, it's not the same thing at all
Not invalidating your feelings, because I hate pitch correction on older recordings too, but this is not what's going on here.
 
I just listened to this. There's elements of this that really remind me of Abortion Papers, but I actually prefer this. Abortion Papers is the only Bad outtake I never took to.

That bridge really comes as a surprise.

It screams "just use this beat for now and we will fix it later" though.

I lIke it! I think its fun.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
I’m only 26 guys…

I’m only 27 guys….

Anyway, I’m just saying they’ll outgrow the behavior (hopefully), not that they’re Invalid. Don’t stress.
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I’m 19 soon 20 in january. Only six of seven years between us! Teen is not far from your past ;) I repeat, it’s not the age, but the behavior. Many old fans are like that tho but not important
 
Michaelounet said:
I’m 19 soon 20 in january. Only six of seven years between us! Teen is not far from your past ;) I repeat, it’s not the age, but the behavior. Many old fans are like that tho but not important
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Well that is true but old heads be elitist and snobbish. The tweens mostly just clown around. That’s how they be with most things. Especially since I’ve actually noticed how they are in my community. Which is just what it is.
 
NeoGardiV12 said:
No, it's not the same thing at all
Not invalidating your feelings, because I hate pitch correction on older recordings too, but this is not what's going on here.
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Yes, I totally get it. You know what.. I think it's going to be even harder in the future to distinguish between AI and authentical concent. We have just seen the tip of the iceberg and as technology develops, this is going to be a giant issue for any artist (if it isn's already). It's already way too easy to fake stuff.
 
NeoGardiV12 said:
I'm specifically talking about that part being put through an AI voice model (RVC), which is VERY different from saying it was generated with AI which is what I'm assuming you got out of my message, I don't blame you though, there's a million different AI technologies nowadays so my bad for not specifying what I meant.

I'm gonna make this as explicitly clear as I possibly could:
When an acapella with multiple harmonies in the background (or in simpler terms, Background vocals.) gets processed through an RVC model (an AI Voice Model, you know, the thing that was all the craze before generative AI became a thing) the model messes up it's detection, since there's multiple voices going on at the same time, it tries to imitate the melody of every line in the original acapella at the same time, which it obviously can't.
The most obvious giveaway is the fact that the actual background vocals randomly come in after that part is over
THAT'S what I think is going on with THAT specific part of the song... it's not that impossible or unbelievable, especially because it's been done in the past in the exact same manner. A good example is how before Men In Black leaked completely, snippets were being passed around which were just like I described here, the original song with the acapella being put through AI.
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i think you dont know what you're saying
 
robotchicken14 said:
Unfortunately there are some fans who think Michael had the Midas touch, and expect everything he ever did to be fantastic. It’s part of the legacy MJ tried to curate in a way - every album track was single-worthy, no B-sides were allowed etc.

So when a strange, experimental thing like Turnin’ Me Off comes around, completely unfinished and sub-par songwriting-wise, it’s nevertheless judged by some people as though it’s a released song.
People have to remember that Michael would be aghast if he knew any scrapped demo/WIP was released to the public, like he was when Hold My Hand leaked
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World of Candy would destroy this community 😭😭😭😭😭😭
 
I guess most people still aren't aware that these songs are coming from a laptop of Brad's that wasn't a part of the 2023 leaks. It's why we have MIB, '87 SW, and TYLA in HQ now.
 
robotchicken14 said:
So when a strange, experimental thing like Turnin’ Me Off comes around, completely unfinished and sub-par songwriting-wise, it’s nevertheless judged by some people as though it’s a released song.
People have to remember that Michael would be aghast if he knew any scrapped demo/WIP was released to the public, like he was when Hold My Hand leaked
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I completely agree with you, however ... judging an unfinished experiment as 'sub-par songwriting' contradicts your own statement. Because with these words, you are judging it like it is a finished song.

I very much agree with John Cleese, who states there is no 'wrong' while being in the creative process. See video below. Turnin' Me Off is, as you say, an unfinished experiment. We don't know how it might have evolved, and what the finished product would have been like. If there had been a finished version, then you could judge it.

 
Piek said:
I completely agree with you, however ... judging an unfinished experiment as 'sub-par songwriting' contradicts your own statement. Because with these words, you are judging it like it is a finished song.
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To clarify, because perhaps I didn't make it clear in my original post, I'm not using the phrase 'sub-par songwriting' to describe my own opinion on Turnin' Me Off as a finished piece, but to delineate how Michael, Barnes and (certainly) Bottrell most likely viewed it following it's creation.

It's a phrase I would use to describe how Michael likely thought of almost every song that didn't make an album - he set his standards incredibly high (not only for himself but for outside songwriters), and therefore all the material that never made it can only be judged as experiments and not finished products.

Hopefully that makes more sense (essentially, we agree with each other)
 
Piek said:
I completely agree with you, however ... judging an unfinished experiment as 'sub-par songwriting' contradicts your own statement. Because with these words, you are judging it like it is a finished song.

I very much agree with John Cleese, who states there is no 'wrong' while being in the creative process. See video below. Turnin' Me Off is, as you say, an unfinished experiment. We don't know how it might have evolved, and what the finished product would have been like. If there had been a finished version, then you could judge it.

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I think its a finished experiment actually, i just think Brad sundberg stole an unfinished copy from when he was working on the tracks during the Bad sessions.
 
This track feels more than any other, like a work session song, in a good way.

Like a day of watching MJ doing his thing in the studio.

Even something with more abstract lyrics like say, People of the World or Lovely Way feels more full bodied in a way. Like you can clearly see where they’re intended to be, they just haven’t gotten there in the poetic side.

This song feels like a sonic experiment more than anything. Like this would define the Bad era’s overall musical texture.
 
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