Verdict Reached: AEG NOT Liable - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

[Tygger]

Krizkil, I am repeating what Panish said in the interview posted. He disputed the wording of question two and the judge ruled against him. The investigation is open regarding the possible bias of one or two jurors. If the juror(s) had a dominating effect on deliberations, that juror(s) could sway others. We shall see what the investigation discovers.

Big Apple2, I do not believe the case was frivolous as the jurors did agree AEG hired the doctor. The “smoking gun” email worked.

Allusio, Michael and Ortega agreed to postpone the shows and AEG did agree.

 

[Allusio]

Allusio, Michael and Ortega agreed to postpone the shows and AEG did agree.

/Allusio
due to "called Randy Ph.": On Michael's request Frank DiLeo negotiated with Phillips about a postponement for 4 shows at the beginning and putting them on the end. And that was not refused from AEG.
Maybe you mean this?
What do you mean with "He should have done this or that, AEG should have listened to him !!! ?
What did he say to AEG what AEG did not listened?

With all the information and time I may missed something but wasn’t it Prince who testified about more time ? And it was not about 4 shows and weren’t those shows put on the end because of technical reasons ?

 

[elusive moonwalker]

If i remember right the story given at the time was that the 4 shows were being moved cause they didnt have time to set up the stage from when madonna finished her shows. something like that.

as others said no pushing of dates back would have really made any difference because murray would have still been there doing what he was doing.

 

[Big Apple2]

Big Apple2, I do not believe the case was frivolous as the jurors did agree AEG hired the doctor. The “smoking gun” email worked.

The "smoking gun" email? Don't make me laugh!

In my opinion, they built their ENTIRE case on that so-called "smoking gun" email. In my further opinion, they TRIED AND FAILED when they thought that releasing that email to the media would have some how force AEG to submit to their TWO settlement request. The jury answered two questions and the entire case was over. Fail. Fail. And oh yeah, fail.

I called the case frivolous, because it was basically ripped apart before it even got to the court room. I mean, seriously, how many claims were DISMISSED before the case started, not counting the two claims that were dismissed during the proceedings, i.e. Philips and Gongware.

But you know what, all is not lost, at least Murray will not have to pay restitution, because as Mother requested: Murray needs to financially support his children. So I'll give her that one. That one she DID win!

 

[serendipity]

They won't be talking appeal if they were happy with the verdict and if they were just looking for the truth and for answers. We know what they wanted and they didn't get it.

 

[Big Apple2]

They won't be talking appeal if they were happy with the verdict and if they were just looking for the truth and for answers. We know what they wanted and they didn't get it.

Totally agree!

I just hope this result doesn't mean that Randy Jackson is somewhere drafting up his SECOND letter to the executors of Michael's estate, demanding that they step down.

Remember he still has that "evidence" that he threatened to turn over to the proper authorities (LOL), as noted in his first letter to the executors. (Maybe he should have turned his "evidence" over to Mr. Panish. Oh nevermind, that's a whole other story. LOL)

So it's a toss up, I guess. Go after the executors AGAIN, or file an appeal. Time will tell.

Once Randy stops crying, I'm sure a decision will be made.

 

[Mneme]

With all the information and time I may missed something but wasn’t it Prince who testified about more time ? And it was not about 4 shows and weren’t those shows put on the end because of technical reasons ?

The opening concert was changed from July 08. to July 13.;
the concert from July 1o. was changed to March 01. 2010,
from Jul 12. 09 to March 03.2010
from Jul 14. 09 to March 06.2010
and the official grounds were:
"This afternoon Michael Jackson show producers will be announcing the rescheduling and change of the opening shows in order to meet the challenges presented by such a large and technically complex concert....".


Yes, Michael son Prince told about in the court about this "need more time" and "they are killing me".

This are always my say too when I came stressed home after a hectic day. Therefore for me this kind of cursing about the employer is very known; it was nothing behind them because it was for cleaning my own feelings and often an explain for my girlfriend due to my bad mood, tiredness and so on.

As I said: It seems Michael himself had said nothing about 'more time' to R. Phillips. And if he would have really thought "they" wanted to kill him so was his little son not the right adress for that fear.

This may sound hearthless for somebody who read this is my opinion because for me Michael was a grwon man with full capable of acting and not this helpless guy as what he is often described.

 

[Big Apple2]

"they are killing me".

This are always my say too when I came stressed home after a hectic day. Therefore for me this kind of cursing about the employer is very known; it was nothing behind them because it was for cleaning my own feelings and often an explain for my girlfriend due to my bad mood, tiredness and so on.

True dat!

In my opinion, MOST of us (if not all of us) have used those words or words to that effect, now and then when it comes to our jobs and/or our bosses. It's the nature of the beast!

 

[jaydom7]

I really wish MJ would have gotten himself a good manager who would've done the shows the way he could've handled.. MJ sounds like he had no representation other than the crook Thome Thome when he set up the AEG deal.. And we all know who introduced MJ to Thome don't we? his brother Jermaine who I am sure was getting some side cash from hooking up Thome with MJ.

 

[Big Apple2]

I really wish MJ would have gotten himself a good manager who would've done the shows the way he could've handled.. MJ sounds like he had no representation other than the crook Thome Thome when he set up the AEG deal.. And we all know who introduced MJ to Thome don't we? his brother Jermaine who I am sure was getting some side cash from hooking up Thome with MJ.

I hear you, BUT that should have been Step No. 2, in my opinion.

I mean, what Michael really needed FIRST was to deal with his sleep issues. Signing on to ANY concert deal would have just lead back to his issues sleeping.

As to Jermaine and Thome-Thome, I'm sure there is some type of UGLY back story, that "may" have included Jermaine being paid a fee for bring MJ and Thome-Thome together. In my opinion, that's why it has NEVER really been addressed by Mr. JackSun.

 

[AliCat]

If i remember right the story given at the time was that the 4 shows were being moved cause they didnt have time to set up the stage from when madonna finished her shows. something like that.

as others said no pushing of dates back would have really made any difference because murray would have still been there doing what he was doing.

The reason for changing the first 4 date's, was because of time. Kenny Ortega took responsibility for it, as he and Randy Phillips did a Press Conference to address why the first 4 date's were moved.

Kenny Ortega said that he had to finish a prior engagement, then he came on board mid-April for the "This Is It" Shows. Michael wanted Kenny Ortega involved and waited for Kenny before Production began. The ticket sales began in mid-March, after the announcement on March 5, 2009.

More ticket sales were added within the last 2 weeks, before Michael died, as the Show was to scale and there was more room to add more seat's. So there was another chance to get seat's, without having to go through Viagogo, which was more like an Auction-type venue.

 

[jaydom7]

I hear you, BUT that should have been Step No. 2, in my opinion.

I mean, what Michael really needed FIRST was to deal with his sleep issues. Signing on to ANY concert deal would have just lead back to his issues sleeping.

As to Jermaine and Thome-Thome, I'm sure there is some type of UGLY back story, that "may" have included Jermaine being paid a fee for bring MJ and Thome-Thome together. In my opinion, that's why it has NEVER really been addressed by Mr. JackSun.

Of course Jermaine had some kind of side deal.. remember he said Thome was going to help him finance 5 billion dollars for a sun city resort or some mess like that:busted:

 

[Allusio]

Yes, Michael son Prince told about in the court about this "need more time" and "they are killing me".

This are always my say too when I came stressed home after a hectic day. Therefore for me this kind of cursing about the employer is very known; it was nothing behind them because it was for cleaning my own feelings and often an explain for my girlfriend due to my bad mood, tiredness and so on.

As I said: It seems Michael himself had said nothing about 'more time' to R. Phillips. And if he would have really thought "they" wanted to kill him so was his little son not the right adress for that fear.

This may sound hearthless for somebody who read this is my opinion because for me Michael was a grwon man with full capable of acting and not this helpless guy as what he is often described.

It is not about being helpless but be respected by your business partner.

As far as I remember Michael talked on the phone about more time with someone from AEG (Maybe RP, I do not remember) so it was said not just for Prince.

IF SO AEG did failed Michael and it doesn’t take away any even smallest piece of anything from the force Michael had.

As I’ve said – with any promoter and with any singer – something can go wrong along the way !!!
And there should be a dialog and solution. Not if you signed it – it must be done.

Why some mistakes from Michael (wrong lawyer) should be an excuse for AEG “stubbornness”.

 

[ivy]

The investigation is open regarding the possible bias of one or two jurors.

how do you investigate that?

 

[serendipity]

As far as I remember Michael talked on the phone about more time with someone from AEG (Maybe RP, I do not remember) so it was said not just for Prince.

Can you please post this testimony, because I just can't remember it.

 

[MIST]

Didn´t Michael always need more time for his rehearsals before tours?

I think I read the first leg of Bad Tour was similar to Victory tour because they didn´t have enough time to change it, there were talk about remember the time..it wasn´t enough time to get it right..
We know he did great concerts but I suppose there could have been some problems with the first shows- even if the audience didn´t notice.

If Michael had had a chance to do the shows I think it would have been some initial problems but then they would have worked together like an oiled machinery.

 

[Victory22]

I think that Michael was understandably having a bad case of nerves and that along with his protectionist personality made him want to push back the shows. The main problem with postponing them however, was it was unfair to the fans who had made sacrifice’s to attend and unfair to his business associates who had invested hundreds of thousands of dollars into the project. No one knew what a low-life rat Murray was and that he was putting Michael's life in danger every night for six straight weeks using Propofol and walking away leaving MJ alone. They also (including Michael) didn't know that Murray was keeping secret recordings of Michael while he was drugged so he could blackmail him later. If any of this information had been known outside of Michael's bedroom then I think our MJ would still be alive.

 

[bluesky]

[h=1]Jackson Family Attorney Considering Appealing AEG Verdict Due to Confusing Jury Instructions[/h][COLOR=#696969 !important]Posted: 10/15/2013 5:09 pm

[/COLOR]


After a five-month long trial where attorneys questioned 58 witnesses, jurors in the Jackson v. AEG trial concluded 12-0 that the concert promoter was not liable for the death of superstar Michael Jackson. Now, the attorney who represented the Jackson family in the case says he is considering all options, including appealing the verdict because the wording of one of the questions posed to jurors may have cost them the case.
"In talking to the jurors, it appears they were confused by one of the questions on the verdict form," said Jackson family attorney Brian Panish in an exclusive interview with hosts Mari Fagel and Eboni K. Williams on Black Hollywood Live's Justice is Served.
The first question on the verdict form was, "Did AEG hire Dr. Conrad Murray?" to which jurors unanimously responded, "Yes." The second question read, "Was Dr. Conrad Murray unfit or incompetent to perform the work for which he was hired?" to which jurors unanimously responded, "No."
Panish says jurors misinterpreted the question by focusing on whether Dr. Murray was competent when he was first hired by AEG in May 2009 rather than correctly focusing on whether he was competent throughout the span of his employment up until Jackson's death on June 25th, 2009.
"Jurors thought that they only had to determine whether he was fit and competent at the time he was hired. He was hired to be a general physician, for which he was licensed and qualified as a doctor. But our claim really thrust upon the deterioration of Michael's condition over 60 days and the lack of anything being done and the warnings AEG had and ignored."
Jurors did not submit any questions asking for a clarification of the instructions during deliberations.
Panish says when preparing the jury instructions with the judge, he had requested the question be phrased, was Dr. Conrad Murray fit and competent to perform the work for which he was hired "at any time." However, he says the judge denied the request and ruled that the question would be phrased, was Dr. Conrad Murray fit and competent to perform the work for which he was hired "at the time of hiring."
"There is no question that Dr. Murray was unfit and incompetent for what he did to Michael and I think the jurors all agreed with it," Panish said. "It was the way the question was phrased, was he fit and competent 'when hired' to be a general practice doctor. He was a licensed physician and had he followed his Hippocratic oath, he would have been competent at that time. But it's really deeper than that. As AEG continued on to rehearse and get ready for the This Is It show, Dr. Murray's incompetence began to show more and more."
In his closing arguments, Panish suggested to jurors that Jackson's share of blame for his own death was 20%, but the rest of the blame was on AEG, urging jurors to award the family between $1 billion and $2 billion in damages for what he called AEG Live's share of liability in Jackson's death. Panish says he stands by that argument.
"I believe it was a case of shared responsibility. Michael paid the price with his life, Dr. Murray paid the price by going to jail and AEG walked away. AEG made a bunch of money off of the documentary This is It and merchandise of Michael and they continue to move forward. I don't think this is a case where one side or the other is to blame. I think this was the shared responsibility of numerous things coming together creating the synergy for what happened."
Panish is also urging Dr. Murray to stop denying his own responsibility for Jackson's death.
"Dr. Murray claimed this verdict was a vindication of him. That's not what it was at all. I think Dr. Murray should come forward, tell the truth and admit what he has done," Panish said. "Michael died from the overdose of Propofol given to him by a physician that shouldn't have done it. Michael was a person that trusted doctors, and he believed doctors, and he believed they would do no harm. Unfortunately Dr. Murray sacrificed that for money and fame."

Panish says after having interviewed all of the jurors in the case, he is in talks with appellate lawyers to decide how to proceed. He says he will look into all options in order to provide the Jackson family with the justice they deserve, shooting down allegations that Jackson's family pursued the case solely to continue to profit off of Michael's death.
"This case was a search for the truth, to find some answers," Panish said. "What did AEG know and what did they do? By uncovering a lot of the internal emails and the actions of AEG, we were able to expose what really happened to Michael, what his condition was like, and what AEG failed to do to help Michael. AEG wanted to get the show on the road at any cost and they overrode Michael and unfortunately Michael was desperate and took measures a normal person wouldn't take had he not been in such a desperate situation, being pressured."


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mari-fagel/jackson-family-attorney-c_b_4094772.html

 

[bluesky]

^^ comment from reader - don't know if it's true or not

addisonsteele



The attorney needs to go back to lawschool. The tort of negligent hiring in California requires a factual finding that the employer knew or should have known that the employee was incompetent at the time of hiring. The jury instructions were correct.

 

[Lena Lucy]

WOW!!!!

The background looks AWESOME!!!!, just saying.

 

[Tygger]

Big Apple2, the jurors agreed AEG hired the doctor as per question one so, yes, the "smoking gun" email did work. The jurors did not agree that the hiring was negligent for whatever their reasons. Negligence started with question two.

Unfortunately, the media never took the opportunity to speak to the two jurors who said "yes" to question two.

We shall see if there will be an appeal or not.

 

[Allusio]

Can you please post this testimony, because I just can't remember it.

Honestly, I need to reread it myself, as I really could misunderstand something. As soon as I find it, I’ll post it.

I think that Michael was understandably having a bad case of nerves and that along with his protectionist personality made him want to push back the shows. The main problem with postponing them however, was it was unfair to the fans who had made sacrifice’s to attend and unfair to his business associates who had invested hundreds of thousands of dollars into the project. No one knew what a low-life rat Murray was and that he was putting Michael's life in danger every night for six straight weeks using Propofol and walking away leaving MJ alone. They also (including Michael) didn't know that Murray was keeping secret recordings of Michael while he was drugged so he could blackmail him later. If any of this information had been known outside of Michael's bedroom then I think our MJ would still be alive.

I’m sure Michael didn’t want to disappoint his fans with being “unfair”… so that was one of the reasons of his “bad case of nerves”. IMO we need to remember that Michael knew about his insomnia but it actually could effect him in his 50 differently, harder than it was when he was younger. And that could be a surprise for him. I just wish he would think more about himself.

 

[Bubs]

Panish says after having interviewed all of the jurors in the case, he is in talks with appellate lawyers to decide how to proceed. He says he will look into all options in order to provide the Jackson family with the justice they deserve, shooting down allegations that Jackson's family pursued the case solely to continue to profit off of Michael's death.
"This case was a search for the truth, to find some answers," Panish said. "What did AEG know and what did they do? By uncovering a lot of the internal emails and the actions of AEG, we were able to expose what really happened to Michael, what his condition was like, and what AEG failed to do to help Michael. AEG wanted to get the show on the road at any cost and they overrode Michael and unfortunately Michael was desperate and took measures a normal person wouldn't take had he not been in such a desperate situation, being pressured."

Yeah right Panish. I think it is clear to even blind people what family is after. They stop for nothing in order to get money off Michael, one way or other.

Michael was desparare and took measures a normal person wouldn't? I guess he forgot Debbie R testimony about German docs sent to his hotel room to give propofol? I quess he forgot all the testimonies from docs that said MJ asked propofol for dental work, minor cosmetic procedure. What pressure MJ was under in those times?
Jacksons are playing with fire is they appeal. Even if jury found AEG hired CM, but if they had come to the part when the percentage was assigned to MJ and AEG, I think percentage for MJ would have been a much more than 20%

 

[Victory22]

Even if there is an appeal Mother and the sibling cubs will never get their hands on a single dollar because they have no case. Better for them to give it up and go find day jobs.

 

[gerryevans]

Jacksons are playing with fire is they appeal. Even if jury found AEG hired CM, but if they had come to the part when the percentage was assigned to MJ and AEG, I think percentage for MJ would have been a much more than 20%

I sure hope they all just give it up. And move on. Panish is never going to find a jury where 9 out of 12 of them are going to hold AEG responsible for what happened on June 25 to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars.

I know this board isn’t any scientific sampling, but what it does represent is the most biased outsiders possible. MJ fans. We love him. We support only him. And yet over 50% don't believe there is sufficient merit to this case. AEG did pressure MJ. AEG did not genuinely care about MJ, but it wasn’t pressure or inconsiderate executives that killed MJ. He could have survived those. He didn’t survive Murray. And the only reason Murray was anywhere near TII is because MJ wanted him to be. Which was the most tragic mistake of his gifted life.

 

[LastTear]

Big Apple2, the jurors agreed AEG hired the doctor as per question one so, yes, the "smoking gun" email did work. The jurors did not agree that the hiring was negligent for whatever their reasons. Negligence started with question two.

Unfortunately, the media never took the opportunity to speak to the two jurors who said "yes" to question two.

We shall see if there will be an appeal or not.

How do you know the two jurors simply didn't want to speak to the media? Lol I highly doubt that the press were issued with names and addresses and the information with how each voted and chose to pass up on these two.

 

[christy]

So luving it ....RTT theme, background color, watts Michael's mini jerri curl & all. Cool ! Gaz & the gang

 

[christy]

^^ comment from reader - don't know if it's true or not

addisonsteele



The attorney needs to go back to lawschool. The tort of negligent hiring in California requires a factual finding that the employer knew or should have known that the employee was incompetent at the time of hiring. The jury instructions were correct.

Don't know about Californian law, but in law of tort, vicarious liability extends to employer's hiring.
The standard of care rests on FORESEEABILITY.
Predictably, textbook law dictates defendants use Contibutory negligence, assigning share of blame to Michael. I don't like it IF the general public thinks Conrat Murray's negligence is diminished even he's done half his time for charges of Involuntary Manslaughter with this new verdict. Just thinking out loud... Could new evidence emerge allowing him to be indicted of 2nd degree murder? Guess not..... Double jeopardy..

 

[Big Apple2]

Big Apple2, the jurors agreed AEG hired the doctor as per question one so, yes, the "smoking gun" email did work.

And that's exactly why Mother won her case, i.e. the so-called smoking gun emails.

Oh wait - she didn't win - SHE LOST!

The jury didn't even get through half of the questions. In my opinion, that's the REAL moral of this sad, sad story. That being that the "smoking gun" emails did not, I repeat, DID NOT reap Mother her billions.

Mother wasn't trying to win ONE of the questions, she was trying to win that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow!

 

[Big Apple2]

Panish says after having interviewed all of the jurors in the case, he is in talks with appellate lawyers to decide how to proceed.

And I'm "thinking" that the first question any appellate lawyers will be asking is: WHO IS GOING TO PAY US?

Because Lord knows, they ain't trying to walk away with nothing to show for their hard work, like Mr. Panish and his law firm did.

Just my opinion, nothing more!