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What are the pros and cons to MJ's songwriting? And what did other songwriters contribute?

Mister_Jay_Tee

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In your opinion, subjective of course.

For me, I have to say that it's a strong pro in favor of just how unique his songwriting voice is. It really speaks to his character and persona that even when he's narrating a story, you can hear so much of his unique identity come through. And it feels so relatable even in that uniqueness. Just super well crafted.

A con, for me personally, and this is probably just more of a compositional element; not a lot of bridges in his songs. Like, very few at all. Strong instrumental breaks, which are great, in the case of Billie Jean, WBSS, Heartbreak Hotel, Push Me Away. And a few genuine bridges that I love to hear the music play. But in some it's not really there. A lot of songs with strong vocal bridges came from:

Rod Temperton (Rock With You, Off The Wall, Burn This Disco Out, Thriller)

Teddy Riley (That may be cowrites, but still, it's an element when he's involved: Remember The Time, Someone Put Your Hand Out, Dangerous)

Dr. Freeze (Blue Gangsta, Break of Dawn)

Darkchild (Xscape, You Rock My World, Unbreakable, Heartbreaker, Invincible)

Even Greg Phillinganges is who we have to thank for Don't Stop's crazy radical bridge.

So it's nice to appreciate, just a different flavor, and element in MJs work from the co authoring. MJ knew that to make hits takes an ensemble, it can't be a one man army approach.
 
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You could very easily say this is about MJs compositions versus others, rather than songwriting. I'm not really emphasizing his lyrics after all, anyway.

Also, The Girl is Mine is one I forgot, that has a very great bridge. And also

Speed Demon
I just can't stop loving You
Cheater
Give in To Me
And Little Susie
 
Pro: His simplicity sounded complex. Most of his self-penned songs are built on two or three common chords, yet he used them in such a way that it never sounded elementary. “Will You Be There,” for example, is more or less one chord on repeat, yet it is such a bombastic and remarkable composition.

Pro: His melodic sensibilities. His ability to write so many catchy melodies and counter-melodies is nothing short of astounding. I will argue to my dying breath that he was the best melody writer pop music has ever seen.

Con: His lyricism. When he put the effort in, he’s proven himself capable of mastery, but sometimes he very clearly phoned it in, particularly with certain love songs and anthems.
 
Cons - sometimes the outro is too much for me. WII and WYBT, for example. Not sure if it's really a 'con' as such but it tests my patience, lol.

Pros - I think it's a 'pro' that he sometimes collaborated with other songwriters. I think that's a skill in its own right and he was great at it. I'm not saying those songs are necessarily better than his own compositions and I know many of his biggest hits were 100% him. But I love that he worked with other writers, also.

AlwaysThere said:
Pro: His melodic sensibilities. His ability to write so many catchy melodies and counter-melodies is nothing short of astounding. I will argue to my dying breath that he was the best melody writer pop music has ever seen.
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Wow! Better than Paul McCartney? I'm not having a go, btw, just intrigued bc I'm so used to seeing PM named as the best melody maker ever. Sure, John Lennon has his advocates and, nowadays, people will often name Max Martin but usually it's Paul all the way when it comes to the question of melody. I know melody was a big deal for Michael.
 
AlwaysThere said:
“Will You Be There,” for example, is more or less one chord on repeat, yet it is such a bombastic and remarkable composition.
Click to expand...
One chord? I count to eight in the verses.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
In your opinion, subjective of course.

For me, I have to say that it's a strong pro in favor of just how unique his songwriting voice is. It really speaks to his character and persona that even when he's narrating a story, you can hear so much of his unique identity come through. And it feels so relatable even in that uniqueness. Just super well crafted.

A con, for me personally, and this is probably just more of a compositional element; not a lot of bridges in his songs. Like, very few at all. Strong instrumental breaks, which are great, in the case of Billie Jean, WBSS, Heartbreak Hotel, Push Me Away. And a few genuine bridges that I love to hear the music play. But in some it's not really there. A lot of songs with strong vocal bridges came from:

Rod Temperton (Rock With You, Off The Wall, Burn This Disco Out, Thriller)

Teddy Riley (That may be cowrites, but still, it's an element when he's involved: Remember The Time, Someone Put Your Hand Out, Dangerous)

Dr. Freeze (Blue Gangsta, Break of Dawn)

Darkchild (Xscape, You Rock My World, Unbreakable, Heartbreaker, Invincible)

Even Greg Phillinganges is who we have to thank for Don't Stop's crazy radical bridge.

So it's nice to appreciate, just a different flavor, and element in MJs work from the co authoring. MJ knew that to make hits takes an ensemble, it can't be a one man army approach.
Click to expand...
Well, dude, the way see it. This is really easy and obvious.

Pros: lyrics and general meaning. Michael is an expert, when it takes to write something smart and simple. He knows how to write something, so it would sound harmoniously and aesthetically pleasing. He is really into that!
Cons: Michael's lack of musical complexity. When it comes to wrote for him in solo, he always make something cool, but simple (simple in the way of samples). He always need somebody to fulfill his musical vision, to complete it. Otherwise MJ's music can sound really raw

You know what I mean, pal?
 
zinniabooklover said:
Pros - I think it's a 'pro' that he sometimes collaborated with other songwriters. I think that's a skill in its own right and he was great at it. I'm not saying those songs are necessarily better than his own compositions and I know many of his biggest hits were 100% him. But I love that he worked with other writers, also.
Click to expand...
Like, 'Girlfriend', 'This Time Around', 'Cry', 'Keep The Faith', 'Why You Wanna Trip On Me', 'Privacy', 'Just Good Friends', 'Invincible', 'Get On The Floor', and so on?

Note that these collaborations led to some of his weakest songs from his entire discography.
AlwaysThere said:
Pro: His simplicity sounded complex. Most of his self-penned songs are built on two or three common chords, yet he used them in such a way that it never sounded elementary. “Will You Be There,” for example, is more or less one chord on repeat, yet it is such a bombastic and remarkable composition.
Click to expand...
The 'Will You Be There' song apparently plagiarized Albano Carrisi's 'I Cigni Di Balaka' song (in terms of melody).

Michael Jackson never presented evidence to refute Albano Carrisi's reasonable claim.
Richard76 said:
Cons: Michael's lack of musical complexity. When it comes to wrote for him in solo, he always make something cool, but simple (simple in the way of samples). He always need somebody to fulfill his musical vision, to complete it. Otherwise MJ's music can sound really raw
Click to expand...
One has to bear in mind also that Michael Jackson was overly reliant on external producers, musicians, engineers, etc, in order to make his compositions sound listenable and releasable.

Just take a look for example at the huge number of people (personnel) that worked on his 'Thriller' album.
 
mj_frenzy said:
The 'Will You Be There' song apparently plagiarized Albano Carrisi's 'I Cigni Di Balaka' song (in terms of melody).

Michael Jackson never presented evidence to refute Albano Carrisi's reasonable claim.
Click to expand...
This misinformation 💩 may work on casuals and people new to this sub, but not to anyone who thinks for more than 3 seconds.

After seven years, an Italian court ruled in favor of Carrisi because Jackson failed to show up to court. In a follow-up case some months later, the court ruled in favor of Jackson and rejected the claim, stating that while the two songs were very similar, they both may have been inspired by The Ink Spots' 1939 hit "Bless You for Being an Angel".[7]

Go ahead and join The Marvin Gaye Estate in being an ignorant prat trying to make a wild claim.
 
Agonum said:
One chord? I count to eight in the verses.
Click to expand...
Check out the sheet music—it’s D and Em played in ascending voicings, which gives the illusion that different chords are being played. Simple, but brilliant!
zinniabooklover said:
Wow! Better than Paul McCartney? I'm not having a go, btw, just intrigued bc I'm so used to seeing PM named as the best melody maker ever. Sure, John Lennon has his advocates and, nowadays, people will often name Max Martin but usually it's Paul all the way when it comes to the question of melody. I know melody was a big deal for Michael.
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Yes, without question! Paul is also a superb songwriter, but I feel it’s another instance of MJ not getting his artistic and creative dues.
mj_frenzy said:
Like, 'Girlfriend', 'This Time Around', 'Cry', 'Keep The Faith', 'Why You Wanna Trip On Me', 'Privacy', 'Just Good Friends', 'Invincible', 'Get On The Floor', and so on?

Note that these collaborations led to some of his weakest songs from his entire discography.
Click to expand...
Or like “Rock with You,” “She’s Out of My Life,” “Thriller,” “P.Y.T.,” “The Lady in My Life,” “Man in the Mirror,” “Remember the Time,” “2 Bad,” “Blood on the Dance Floor,” “Is It Scary,” “Break of Dawn,” “Heaven Can Wait,” “Butterflies,” and so on.

Note that these collaborations led to some of the most acclaimed and celebrated songs from his entire discography.
mj_frenzy said:
One has to bear in mind also that Michael Jackson was overly reliant on external producers, musicians, engineers, etc, in order to make his compositions sound listenable and releasable.

Just take a look for example at the huge number of people (personnel) that worked on his 'Thriller' album.
Click to expand...
This is objectively one of the most asinine and nonsensical claims anyone has ever made on this site. Excluding the fact that most musicians have no technical prowess and limited musical capabilities (e.g., Madonna, The Beatles) and thus would require people to record and mix their material, the idea that MJ’s music was only listenable due to outside producers is hilarious.

I held out for so long, but I just can’t anymore. Welcome to the Ignore list.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
This misinformation 💩 may work on casuals and people new to this sub, but not to anyone who thinks for more than 3 seconds.

After seven years, an Italian court ruled in favor of Carrisi because Jackson failed to show up to court. In a follow-up case some months later, the court ruled in favor of Jackson and rejected the claim, stating that while the two songs were very similar, they both may have been inspired by The Ink Spots' 1939 hit "Bless You for Being an Angel".[7]

Go ahead and join The Marvin Gaye Estate in being an ignorant prat trying to make a wild claim.
Click to expand...
I swear, a lot of the things mj_frenzy posts is easily debunked by a single Google search lol.
 
Difficult for me as an non-native speaker, but I am sometimes amazed by MJ's ability to do really creative and also deep lyrics (WBSS, Superfly Sister, Monkey Business, Morphine etc, etc.), almost in a 'stream of consciousness' style, and on the other hand did fairly simple, naive lyrics for ballads and anthems (Heal The World, Beautiful Girl, Billie Jean). It sometimes makes me wonder if he consiously dumbed down his lyrics so that everyone would understand
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
This misinformation 💩 may work on casuals and people new to this sub, but not to anyone who thinks for more than 3 seconds.

After seven years, an Italian court ruled in favor of Carrisi because Jackson failed to show up to court. In a follow-up case some months later, the court ruled in favor of Jackson and rejected the claim, stating that while the two songs were very similar, they both may have been inspired by The Ink Spots' 1939 hit "Bless You for Being an Angel".[7]

Go ahead and join The Marvin Gaye Estate in being an ignorant prat trying to make a wild claim.
Click to expand...
At the end of the day, the general consensus was that Michael Jackson's 'Will You Be There' song plagiarized the 'I Cigni Di Balaka' song (in terms of melody).

There are even certain statements (coming from some very knowledgeable people) that support this, for example:

Rome Magistrate Domenico Bonaccorsi unwaveringly stated that besides the differences in language and text, both songs appear identical and the similarity cannot be put down to chance.

Also, 3 music experts (who also testified in these court cases) concluded that 37 out of 40 notes in these 2 songs are the same.

Or, the Italian composer and pianist Riccardo Malipiero who specifically stated that these 2 songs do not sound just similar, but they sound exactly identical.
 
mj_frenzy said:
At the end of the day, the general consensus was that Michael Jackson's 'Will You Be There' song plagiarized the 'I Cigni Di Balaka' song (in terms of melody).

There are even certain statements (coming from some very knowledgeable people) that support this, for example:

Rome Magistrate Domenico Bonaccorsi unwaveringly stated that besides the differences in language and text, both songs appear identical and the similarity cannot be put down to chance.

Also, 3 music experts (who also testified in these court cases) concluded that 37 out of 40 notes in these 2 songs are the same.

Or, the Italian composer and pianist Riccardo Malipiero who specifically stated that these 2 songs do not sound just similar, but they sound exactly identical.
Click to expand...
From this point we can name a lot of songs as plagiarism....For example Shout! MJ litterally took main sample from this song... Same thing about Ghosts and a lot of other songs... Michael always took music samples from songs of other artists to create his own music... That's what most singers do
 
Victorious said:
Difficult for me as an non-native speaker, but I am sometimes amazed by MJ's ability to do really creative and also deep lyrics (WBSS, Superfly Sister, Monkey Business, Morphine etc, etc.), almost in a 'stream of consciousness' style, and on the other hand did fairly simple, naive lyrics for ballads and anthems (Heal The World, Beautiful Girl, Billie Jean). It sometimes makes me wonder if he consiously dumbed down his lyrics so that everyone would understand
Click to expand...
Mm, see I wouldn't even call it 'dumbing down', tbh. I think one of Michael's strengths was his storytelling ability and some stories need complex layers and things not being made too obvious and then other stories need a more direct treatment, a simpler approach, as you said. Yes, with some songs he wanted people to be able to sing along very easily but I think it goes a bit beyond that. I think as a natural storyteller he just had that ability to know what a particular song needed.
 
Richard76 said:
From this point we can name a lot of songs as plagiarism....For example Shout! MJ litterally took main sample from this song... Same thing about Ghosts and a lot of other songs... Michael always took music samples from songs of other artists to create his own music... That's what most singers do
Click to expand...
What about Ghosts?
 
AlwaysThere said:
Check out the sheet music—it’s D and Em played in ascending voicings, which gives the illusion that different chords are being played. Simple, but brilliant!

Yes, without question! Paul is also a superb songwriter, but I feel it’s another instance of MJ not getting his artistic and creative dues.

Or like “Rock with You,” “She’s Out of My Life,” “Thriller,” “P.Y.T.,” “The Lady in My Life,” “Man in the Mirror,” “Remember the Time,” “2 Bad,” “Blood on the Dance Floor,” “Is It Scary,” “Break of Dawn,” “Heaven Can Wait,” “Butterflies,” and so on.

Note that these collaborations led to some of the most acclaimed and celebrated songs from his entire discography.

This is objectively one of the most asinine and nonsensical claims anyone has ever made on this site. Excluding the fact that most musicians have no technical prowess and limited musical capabilities (e.g., Madonna, The Beatles) and thus would require people to record and mix their material, the idea that MJ’s music was only listenable due to outside producers is hilarious.

I held out for so long, but I just can’t anymore. Welcome to the Ignore list.
Click to expand...
It has more than two chords though because the bridge plays another set of chords.

@frenzy. Lol. Soon he will take issue with the fact that Michael wasn’t the one who personally held the camera and filmed in his own music videos.

“In many instances the artist needed external help with shooting his music videos…”
 
mj_frenzy said:
At the end of the day, the general consensus was that Michael Jackson's 'Will You Be There' song plagiarized the 'I Cigni Di Balaka' song (in terms of melody).

There are even certain statements (coming from some very knowledgeable people) that support this, for example:

Rome Magistrate Domenico Bonaccorsi unwaveringly stated that besides the differences in language and text, both songs appear identical and the similarity cannot be put down to chance.

Also, 3 music experts (who also testified in these court cases) concluded that 37 out of 40 notes in these 2 songs are the same.

Or, the Italian composer and pianist Riccardo Malipiero who specifically stated that these 2 songs do not sound just similar, but they sound exactly identical.
Click to expand...
Whatever bozo.

Who you gonna believe, google, or your lying ears?

 
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